roundabouts/cornering

[deeds33]

Hi
So, Im new to riding and to top it all , my bike got stolen after 10 weeks of riding. I test rode a street triple at the weekend (previous bike was a KTM RC390) and I had forgotten how shocking I am at leaning the bike - notably so on roundabouts, and on the odd corner - I understand counter steering but also think my brain is approaching the limit of thinking I'm going to fall off.
How do you guys and gals get around this - I know that the bike will go so much further than I let it...

[notabikeranym...]

Don't whack on throttle or brakes in the corner and you'll be fine. Too much input for the conditions is what makes you lose traction. You have a limit on your tyres for braking, accelerating, and leaning over. Too much of any of these and you can slip.

Just look where you wanna go and you'll end up there so long as you don't fight the bike. This means grip tank with knees etc, loose on handlebars.

You should be able to wiggle your arms and have a light touch on the handlebar grips.

Also if you think you're approaching the limit of your cornering ability, slow down. Who cares if someone else can do it quicker, you aren't racing, just be smooth and get round the corner. General consensus for cornering properly is slow entry, faster exit, progressively throttle on throughout corner.

Also watch Twist of the Wrist 2. Explains everything.

Then in summer when its nice and hot absolutely slam it into every single corner at full pelt.

[andym]

[Azoth]

"Advice? A very intereing taahpic. One can hear a lot of advice about riding."
"Wow! He's so smoooooooth!"
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[Howling Terror]

^^^Yes homo eroticism aside Twist of the Wrist II is well worth a watch.

It's that look he gives when wanging the throttle...
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Have a go at shifting your weight more to the inside, means you don't have to lean the bike as far which is safer especially in the wet.
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'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8

[Dave70]

All good advice mentioned above.

However, I wouldn't be leaning the bike too much around corners or roundabouts on British roads at this time of year. I like to keep the bike fairly upright on cold, wet, slippy road surfaces.

Wait for spring /summer before practicing.
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2012: R125 killed by white van. 2016 R125 killed by 30,000 miles of redline. Current: 2016 Kawasaki ER6f.

[Bozzy]

[Barnoe]

I agree with Dave.... wrong time of year for leaning and learning.

Until your more confident go slower round bends/roundabouts.

If you think going slow round bends is embarrassing.
Just think how embarrassing it is stopping traffic in both directions while you pick up your broken bike :O
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You know you are old when you're told to slow down by your doctor and not the police.

[Bozzy]

[deeds33]

[deeds33]

Just watched the 'twist of the wrist' - fantastic - really useful and I think i am guilty of every one of the 'SR's

Agreed that its not the time of year to be throwing a bike into a corner - good job I don't have one at the moment!!

Thanks for all the comments peeps - really appreciated.

[ZX-7R]

[Teflon-Mike]

Kieth Code's prescription panacea is peculiarly dumbed down for Americans, who frequently don't have any of the even basic training we have to in the UK.

ToTW's promotion of and explanation of "Code Counter Steer" is, confused & contradictory at best, and if you think you understand it, that's likely only because Code's a Scientologist, not a Scientist... and has coined the term 'counter-steer' to explain a single means of exploiting "Progression Effects" to INITIATE a turn... then applied it to any and every other progression effect AND apparently counter intuitive reaction in the entire dynamic..... to justify his argument, why, even if you don't know it, you MUST use it..... then gives a pseudo scientific demonstration to prove you DON'T have to use it (the no bars bike!).. and tell us that you still are?!?!?... Err... yeah... I've been riding bikes forty years, I even have some trophies on the mantlepiece, and earned my crust as a fucking rocket scientist developing missile guidance systyems... I dont 'understand' Code's Counter-Steer! I Do understand 'progression effects', and how a small reverse steering 'force' at the outset generates a newtonian 'reaction' to it, that creates a series of 'progression effects' that help get the bike turning earlier and with less rider effort... How Code, a club Road-Race 'ranker' and small time magazine columnist has turned this into a 'Cult' and made a fortune out of it, is rather like other American 'cults' that make thier Guru's millions a complete mystery to me... if it wasn't... I'd be living in a Californian mansion with a fleet of chauffeur driven Rolls Royces, rather than a semi in the midlands with a clapped out Range Rover on the drive!

Some of his advice is quite useful, some of it even sensible, other bits down right dangerous, particularly his continual suggestion of riding through "Personal Inhibitors"....

Take it all with a very large dose of seasoning, and consider it more as Top-Gear 'entertainment' that may contain a little motorcycle related information....

To go around round-a-bouts?

Start at your front door... take a long hard look at it before you go anywhere; THAT is your ultimate destination... wherever you may go on the bike... you are ultimately going 'no-where' but back home. IF after riding, you can look at your front door again, and say, "No bones broke! No Bikes broke! No blood lost!"... you can then add "I WON!"... if you remembered what you went out for in the beginning, better still, walk past the front door and NOT have to sheepishly admit "Sorry, I forgot.." the milk, or gravy granuals or loo roll or whatever she wanted you to pick up whist out, that's double 'win'!

PUBLIC ROADS are for going places, they are not a play-ground for pretending to be a GP hero! There's no prizes or rewards or accolades for being the first man to the morgue... and plenty have beaten you to it already, anyway, by simple dint of having left the house earlier! Which, if you want to get anywhere earlier is hint how to do it!

Building Confidence comes from experience; more GOOD experience, essentially more times reaching that front door able to claim a 'win'.

Advice offered "It's the wrong time of year" I HAVE, to try not to scream at! Sorry! But bollox!

Most people crash in the summer...... Hmmmm....

A lot of that is that many don't come out in the crap to have the chance to crash any other time, but, other big reason is the 'false' confidence of believing that it's the conditions that count, and not riding in the winter convinced its the weather that'll make'm crash,. not their own degree of dafteness!

Check out road-race lap times and you will likely observe that there is as large a difference, between 'race' and 'qualifying' times, when in qualiftying the have effectively 'ideal' conditions and no 'traffic' to contend with, as there is between 'dry' and 'wet' conditions, where wet laps are frequently within 10% of dry...

It is NOT that huge am impediment, that you 'need' wally about tip-toeing the bike about certain its going to bugga off from beneath you without warning!!!

Tyres have tread to cope with wet.. of course they can bugga off from beneath you... B-U-T!!! such disparity in confidence they might, is often more revealing of just how 'over confident' folk tend to be in the sunny weather, rather than how genuinely desperate the conditions of a British winter make matters!

Get a Grip..... your bike probably has a better one than you do!

Winter roads aren't the most pleasant; they are usually wet, they are frequently dark, we do get cold, and it tends not to be so comfortable... BUT... if the busses are running... you can be riding! Dress sensibly, ride sensibly, and odds is you WILL survive!

And learn to be SMOOTH.. least rider input for maximum motion, cool riding, in the cool! And get them miles under your belt, to get your confidence up.

Worry come spring, when the sun starts shining and boosts your confidence falsely with these notions that THAT is what will stop you crashing.... it wont! NOT if you cant to it in the winter!

Here and now advice? Bikes tilt to turn/ Trying to hold one 'more' upright to go around a bend or roundy, ISNT going to 'help'. If you wont lean it, you have to steer it with the bars, that means more bar 'lock' and more the back will try and push the front, more you will tend to try and go slower and have even less corner force trying to hold the bike up, so even more you will be loath to try and tilt it, AND you will be in a self defeating cycle of putting in more and more rider input, doing more work to less effect, the opposite of 'smooth' cool riding, to NOT go any faster, nor safer, and generating big forces you have to keep in check almost in pure 'rider balence' rather than letting the bike do it for you.

TRUST your bike! It's almost certainly a hell of a lot better at its job, right now than you are! Let it Lean (a bit)... remember, tyres have tread, and YOU shouldn't be exploring the limits of traction on the public roads anyway!!!

AND.. with little more than however many saddle hours of a DAS course under your belt, you are still a learner, and if you think you need more learning... go get it first hand, from some-one who can see what you are doing, NOT some-one with a Bufalo Bill beard and tash, spouting American Cult Religious doctrines about bikes on You-Tube!

British 'Road-Craft', if you have to do some homework contains FAR more useful and pertinent intelligence, if its still there in later editions, in the preface, that STARTS by saying that there is NO PRESCRIPTION for riding a motorcycle, (let alone a one trick panacea, as Code Counter-Steer is so often presented!), and that there is NO substitute for common sense... which is essential to apply the 'prescriptive' proceduralised techniques offered in Road Craft., in UK 'Ministry' approved models, as 'tools' YOU have to apply common cocum to decide where and when they might be better utilized!

BUT.. recalibrate brain. Public roads are a way to get places, not a playground. Every time you return to your front door, whole and without blood, YOU WIN! You dont 'have' to be able to deck your knee on every bend, or lay darkies on every straight to be a rider! Wet or Dry, Shine or Shite! Biggest risk to you coming off is YOU... dont let the weather skew your 'reason' any more than it is already! Be SENSIBLE, be SMOOTH, DONT fight the bike or be scared to let it lean, TRUST the bike, and let it do its best for you!

AND beyond that... if you want more learning, go get proper lessons, NOT questionable you-tube tutorials!

But, bottom line? Stop Thinking - Start Riding!
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[B5234FT]

I assume your test ride was a new bike, but otherwise, check the bike over. I fought with my triple for 3 months, putting it down to being a new rider, but it felt all wrong. A new rear tyre made a night and day difference!

[deeds33]

Hi,
Firstly, can I say thank you to you all for taking the time to reply - I posted something on a VW scirocco forum and got no reply (it was car related and not bike related )

Some really useful thoughts - and I loved Teflons comment regarding looking at your front door.
A very good friend of mine told me that every time I get on the bike treat every other person on the road as an idiot - you will come across one one day!!

Biking is fantastic and the crowd that are involved are brilliant!

Sadly the bike was actually stolen from a garage that was doing some work to it... about 2 weeks later the dealership was broken into and had a lot of bikes stolen.

[Rogerborg]

[MarJay]

Tef claims he knows more about riding than Keith Code. Why am I not surprised?
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

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[Monkeywrenche...]

[Azoth]

[deeds33]

Hi,
Im sorry - have I opened a can of worms?

I really didn't mean to!

Everyones advice is going to be different - regardless of if Codes video is practical or not, I feel that it was worth while watching - I found it interesting, and simple things I had forgotten from my lessons made sense - like actually trying to ride through the corner!

I fully intend to continue with further lessons, and build my skill - I am planning on doing some track day lessons too - more to build my confidence in a controlled environment!

Thank you all for your help!

[colink98]

[Rogerborg]

[Hong Kong Phooey]