Motorcycle licensing post Brexit

[Waaarrrggghhh]

Do you guys think that after we leave, there could be new licensing laws made which are better and more accessible for younger learners? Or is that wishful thinking?

I ask because the retarded license system is due to the EU.

[Alpineandy]

Very unlikely to change.
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The above comment isn't necessarily the truth and anyone that says it is, is only correct if it's the truth or they're bigger than me.

[iooi]

[Andy_Pagin]

I don't see how our system could be any better from a youngsters' point of view. So long as you do a CBT every two years you can ride unaccompanied forever without ever taking a test.

Incidentally the whole 'unaccompanied L' thing is nothing to do with Europe, in fact it isn't even mentioned in Euro law as far as I know.
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[redeem ouzzer]

[M.C]

[iooi]

[Rogerborg]

Well, the DfT is thinking about finally changing that, and of giving a training route to upgrade licences, like a CBT+, which takes care of the two biggest issues.

The real daftness comes in the A2 bike category which is entirely arbitrary, matched almost no bikes when it was introduced (Brough Superior SS100...), and there are still very few native A2 test bikes available (395cc+, 20-35kW inclusive. Royal Enfield...).

[MahatmaAndhi]

I thought Mod 1 was introduced because 50kph is breaking the speed limit on British roads (32mph?), so they do it in a car park instead.
At any rate, now they've shelled out bajillions of quid on said car parks (and very nice, they are too) they won't change it regardless.
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2008 Aprilia Sportcity 250

[Azoth]

I can see it changing and becoming easier, but only in the very long term, when motorcycles are completely unrecognisable from what they are today. At that time there will be laws making automatic pop-down stabilisers compulsory at the lights, and airbag suits, satellite-controlled speed limiting, self-balancing forks (e.g. that latest Honda), autopilots (e.g. Yamaha), etc.
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Safety in numbers

[Teflon-Mike]

The EU licence laws were significant bastadised from UK practices & proposals.

Unsupervised L-Plating is actually a contravention of EU 3DL, whilst the A1 at 17, A2 at 19, and RWYL A at 24, are actually Eursations of what WAS proposed as a 'progressive' licencing system, that wished to see a 'staged' licence system, where all riders had to work their way through the ranks, and not pander to impatient mid-life-crisis man, doing it in a oner on the cheque book alone.

IF we leave the EU... if we are ALLOWED to leave the EU..... our autonomy to make independent laws might not be constrained by what is done in Europe.. BUT, if we want Johnny foreigner to let us drive abroad, then they have to recognize our driving licences, and if we make ours too different, they wont, so it's unlikely that even under treaty, we'd adopt different catagories or change age restrictions to them, or even power / weight performance requirements...

I mean, even if we did, who would make a bike for UK 'Restricted' licence holders? 33bhp 'restricted' licence existed almost 20 years, and no one bothered to build a bike for it... only now, 45bhp A2 licences have been imposed accross europe, often where licence or tax limits imposed a defacto 125cc or 350cc limit on any-one, granting 'big bike' access to a much broader market, have they started making bikes for that market...

And even there, where currently, regs permit a bike up to 70Kw to be 'restricted', provided by no more than 50% of original claimed power, I strongly suspect that that 'provision' to accommodate the lack of inherently A2 compliant bikes, will likely be 'revised' out of existance in the next ten years, as number of A2 as standard machines increases and filter down to 2nd hand market, and some change, or rationalization and possibly some token 'relaxation', possibly the 30Kw limit being increased to 40, (much like the 14.5 power limit increae for 125' whilst the 'unrestricted, pre 82 provisio was dropped) lets them sneakily drop the convoluted 'or restricted from' clauses from the laws.

System, as stands, I agree, with arbitrary age and power limits, is peculiarly punitive towards younger riders, to whom a bike is probably their largest and most significant financial asset, as well as likely their sole if not just main means of transport, and as such, their attitude is far more likely to be swayed towards prudence, by fear of having to keep making the HP payements and catch the bus to work, than it is in a Md-Life-Crisis newby or returnee, oft buying bike as a plaything for Sunny Sundays, that's paid for by not trading in the family car for a few months, and costs less than green fees or a gym membership and doesn't have to get them to work every day, or do anything to earn ts keep; who can crash, and not suffer too much as fully comp insurance takes care of the bike and BUPA the broken bones!

BUT, by the same token, under 25's do take a ht the insurance for good reason. Far too many CANT curb the enthusiasm that much, and any prudence they do apply is usually over compensated for by increased mileage, and hence greater risk, so they still crash more often!

Average family travel is in the order of 20K per year, split between two drivers. Often actually 'Mummy' doing most miles running kidlings around and dong the shopping whilst hubby toddles to and from work and down the fishing pond once a week. Young free and single under 25's on the other hand, will often clock 'almost' a family household's annual miles, doing both the daily bread winning commuting and 'essential' household chores, with one vehicle, but also engaging in a much more 'ranging' social life, clocking up a lot more leisure related miles, in a lifestyle, that entails a larger degree of risk whether motor related or not!

And access to 100bhp hyper machines is FAR too easy; Younger drivers are deterred from cars with that degree of performance by costs and running costs, and specifc age related insurance restrictons; the motorcycle licence system IS the only thing offering effective check against 150+mph crotch rockets.. which is WHY the A2 licence limitations are described as they are, prescribing 'sensible' all-round or commuter stye bikes, and specifically placing 100+bhp sports-bikes outside the scope of what might even be made A2 complient.

If they got rid of the DAS rules, and made any-on of any age, young or old, work thier way through 15bhp A1 bikes, 45bhp A2 bikes, before they could think about getting onto an unrestricted 600, would THAT be any 'fairer' on young riders?

Meanwhile, there has, in my life-time, which stretches as far back as compulsory crash hats, to mopeds for 16 year olds, then 125's for learners, there hasn't been a single piece of motorcycle legislation that HASN'T been in some-way more punitive than the last, some-how...

Whch makes me mndful of an old proverb about a sparrow who decided not to migrate for the winter and a cow who drops a steaming pile of manure on him, when he freezes solid; happy to be thawed, but stuck in the mire, he starts singing and a fox comes along and digs him out... then eats him!...

To which the moral is not every one who shits on you is your enemy, and any-one who digs you out the shit isn't always your friend. But if you are in a pile of shit and ent dead, keep your fucking mouth SHUT, and dig! it could be a whole lot worse!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Rogerborg]

[RhynoCZ]

Listening to the May's speech today, you don't have to worry about that, as it seems unlikely UK will ever leave.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
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[Copycat73]

[redeem ouzzer]

Oh teffers, go take your face for a shit please

I think everyone in my circle of friends had a 100+ bhp bike before 20. Because that's why we liked bikes. We didn't pass our tests and get some shitty 4t two wheeled car, it was usually max bang for buck (usually 2t's or 400's) for a year or two, then straight up to 750cc + once we had money. At 19 i had a GSXR750L with 116 RWBHP, and some of my other mates had ZZR and GSXR 1100's etc. None of us ended up in a wheelchair or worse, because we weren't idiots and had solid skills developed by riding wobbly LC's and nice 400's, big bikes were a piece of piss in comparison, wider sticky tyres, cartridge forks, lots of power which results in less risk taking.

It's stopping kids getting on decent bikes that is killing biking. With the current licence regulations i would buy a car.
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[ThatDippyTwat]

[rhys99]

Pretty sure most other European countries have it better than us, e.g 125's at 16 A2 at 18 etc. It's wank having to be on a 125 until im 19.
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[Jmoan]

[M.C]

[rhys99]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[kgm]

I don't think freedom from Europe will lead to more sensible legislation. Britain is a world leader in pointless legislation. Besides our legislators won't want to be seen as less progressive than the rest of Europe so we'll still have the same rubbish here as everywhere else. Maybe more so as our legislators try to lead the way ahead of Europe.

[M.C]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[Alpineandy]