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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:50 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Trident Reply with quote

Apparently a Trident missile test went wrong weeks before the vote on renewing Trident, and Theresa May has refused to answer whether she knew about it (before the vote), in the extremely awkward way politicians do Laughing

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38711418

Reminiscent of did you threaten to overrule him.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 07:36 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than her awkwardness, I think this is a bit of a non-story.

So, there was a problem on the test. Details will probably need to stay secret as it may expose a weakness (or simply be one of those things with a horrendously complex bit of kit). As the deterrent is all mind-games with the other nuclear powers, then you want to appear to be perfect.

But really, what difference would it have made to the commons vote? If you think the deterrent is essential then you would still want it, and possibly want it faster to replace the ageing kit.
If you think the deterrent is a waste, you'd vote against.
I really can't see anyone changing their minds over this.

So it is hardly covering things up to influence the vote - more just not telling a bunch of people who probably wouldn't understand the reason (if it was technical) something that was irrelevant to them and probably best not discussed in public.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:10 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only issue is that it makes Sharia look ever so much like what she is - a politician. It went wrong, we know, it she knew it, we know she knew it.

Trying to spin the question away was weak sauce. I imagine Mrs Thatch [heavenly chorus sounds] would have slapped that freakshow twunt down and told him that she never, ever confirms or denies any details about our strategic defence, and that'll be the only answer that he gets.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:

So it is hardly covering things up to influence the vote - more just not telling a bunch of people who probably wouldn't understand the reason (if it was technical) something that was irrelevant to them and probably best not discussed in public.


Yeah, she should have just said this but she sat and squirmed like a greasy politician.
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Auntie Beeb wrote:
The Sunday Times wrote:
the missile veered off course during a test in June last year
- weeks before the Commons voted to spend £40bn renewing Trident.

You know, if a news organisation knew this at the time and could only somehow tell someone about it... What a world we would live in.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

This problem is easily solved. Get some more warheads, some more missiles and reintroduce WE177 freefall air dropped bombs.

More of these

https://www.ladailypost.com/sites/default/files/media_crop/36386/public/W76-1111.jpg

Introduce these

https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Uk/We177b.jpg

https://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/nukes/we177a_b.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pfft, tactical is where it's at.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/W48_155-millimeter_nuclear_shell.jpg/300px-W48_155-millimeter_nuclear_shell.jpg

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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
...I think this is a bit of a non-story.



It's not even a non-story here. It has had zero coverage here in Florida, there was a small piece in the online Fox political section but absolutely nothing on the telly.

Quite possibly because the populace would run around like headless chickens if they were informed ...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
I imagine Mrs Thatch [heavenly chorus sounds] would have slapped that freakshow twunt down and told him that she never, ever confirms or denies any details about our strategic defence, and that'll be the only answer that he gets.


While I am no fan of the Wicked Witch of Finchley she did have a class way of bitch slapping idiots in the Commons. Would have loved to see her kick the crap (verbally, of course) out of Corbyn and Abbott.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
I imagine Mrs Thatch [heavenly chorus sounds] would have slapped that freakshow twunt down and told him that she never, ever confirms or denies any details about our strategic defence, and that'll be the only answer that he gets.


While I am no fan of the Wicked Witch of Finchley she did have a class way of bitch slapping idiots in the Commons. Would have loved to see her kick the crap (verbally, of course) out of Corbyn and Abbott.


HTH

https://youtu.be/UhEPyjolGQQ
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
Other than her awkwardness, I think this is a bit of a non-story.

I'm not sure how secret the tests were, apparently they released video of previous ones, I guess this time it would look like: https://youtu.be/1CTadlvmYig?t=22s

May's squirming was embarrassing and it looks like (watching a bit of the debate) they're trying to gloss over it with the it can't be discussed (national security) argument. She could have said that in the interview, not doing so further suggests it wasn't and it was deliberately covered up.

... and she's still avoiding the question (in another interview).
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Mawsley
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
    attacking the whole country
    May bashing
    anti British attitude
    Remoaners
    people actually want to see Britain fail
    white guilt


Laughing

BINGO!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2566446/63fb78c04deeb398c4fc615a0558aded.jpg
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not sure why you have to have a pin point aiming system. Drop one on Trafalgar Square or Great Yarmouth, the results are the same. Fallout, contamination, crops and livestock rendered inedible, children mutated, death from cancer or radiation sickness. Let of twenty of these things ANYWHERE and you have basically fucked the world.
Big boys toys for paranoid maniacs.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Making a fuss about our deterrent not actually working isn't very good for the country.

I doubt Kim Jong-un's going to see this and bring forward his invasion plans.

jjdugen wrote:
Still not sure why you have to have a pin point aiming system. Drop one on Trafalgar Square or Great Yarmouth, the results are the same. Fallout, contamination, crops and livestock rendered inedible, children mutated, death from cancer or radiation sickness. Let of twenty of these things ANYWHERE and you have basically fucked the world.
Big boys toys for paranoid maniacs.

This was in the wrong direction towards an ally though.

Just to be clear I'm not against a nuclear deterrent, it would be better if no one had nukes but that's not the world we live in, I'm against leaders not being straight/honest which's the issue here.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
Still not sure why you have to have a pin point aiming system. Drop one on Trafalgar Square or Great Yarmouth, the results are the same. Fallout, contamination, crops and livestock rendered inedible, children mutated, death from cancer or radiation sickness. Let of twenty of these things ANYWHERE and you have basically fucked the world.
Big boys toys for paranoid maniacs.


You don't need pinpoint aiming for city busting, but you do for militarily legitimate attacks. If you want to destroy an ICBM silo you need a really accurate warhead.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
You don't need pinpoint aiming for city busting, but you do for militarily legitimate attacks. If you want to destroy an ICBM silo you need a really accurate warhead.

I'm struggling to think of any real scenario where that would be an issue.

Any attack on us would either be too low a threshold to trigger a nukular response (and in that I include dirty bombs, briefcase/freighter nukes, or NorKor boots marching down Pall Mall), or so global that our contribution would be practically irrelevant.

Can you posit any situation where we would, realistically, launch a strike whose accuracy mattered?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
You don't need pinpoint aiming for city busting, but you do for militarily legitimate attacks. If you want to destroy an ICBM silo you need a really accurate warhead.

I'm struggling to think of any real scenario where that would be an issue.

Any attack on us would either be too low a threshold to trigger a nukular response (and in that I include dirty bombs, briefcase/freighter nukes, or NorKor boots marching down Pall Mall), or so global that our contribution would be practically irrelevant.

Can you posit any situation where we would, realistically, launch a strike whose accuracy mattered?


I was just answering the point of why they are accurate. Our nukes are accurate because the missiles were bought from the US were only available in one version: accurate.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a test firing - an exercise. These happen from time to time, and I would like to think that each time they are testing something - having some kind of scenario - rather than just doing a perfectly normal launch in perfect conditions to make sure that the kit still works.

So I would expect test firings in all kind of different earth and space weather scenarios, tests with some of the guidance systems turned off to see how well the others compensated, tests while the crew is intentionally trying to jam or interfere with signals to the rocket. Trying to break it in a controlled manner.

If that was the case, then the details would be very classified but the result could have been something expected.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Or "Liberals" as they're normally now known?


Your position seems to be that of fawning sheep.

May shouldn't be left alone and not railed against, we should rail against all our politicians and if they turn out to be weak, replaced. Fawning sheep don't seem to want that though.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

Or maybe as a matter of national security, Labour could think twice about pushing for an enquiry on a test of our nuclear deterrent?

A test is designed to push the limits to see where they fall. I really can't see why Labour think they should be briefed on the secret testing of our defence systems, nor how it's in the public's interest.


It's a single test for which none of us know the parameters. It's not a threat to national security on any level. Kim Jong Un hasn't managed to keep a dong up during multiple testes and he's still seen as a threat.

No nation is going to go "Oh, I saw on the news that the UK had a missile go off course" - They'll know it happened, when it happened not when it was reported. Pretending it didn't happen and hoping nobody noticed is worse that pointing out than it did.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

<conspiracy theory>
I reckon they had been practising programming in the Whitehouse co-ordinates in case Trump got the presidency, then forgot to reset them to somewhere in the sea near Africa prior to firing. So the missile worked perfectly.
</conspiracy theory> Smile
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 23 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the 'its our deterrent init' attitude. Just remember, when you are burnt to a crisp by 'their' deterrent, the ones pushing the buttons will be nice and cozy in their bunkers. Not that I'd want to emerge into the world they had destroyed. Sleep safe in your beds, everyone, at least it will be quick.
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