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| Falco |
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Falco
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 Posted: 23:34 - 25 Mar 2017  Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | [Emergency medical treatment, therefore your plan won't work] |
https://i.imgur.com/cppMzl4.jpg?1
Sure, take everyone in, patch them up. Then check their entitlement, and throw them out with a huge bill to pay. Same as in USia. Which is an actual place, where this actually happens, in actual fact. |
Yeah, and healthcare is a total nightmare over there, with people regularly going bankrupt over innocuous treatments. It's hardly a system to aim for.
It's a compromise that means the free-market can't really work (not that it's really suitable for healthcare) but everyone ends up paying anyway (like single-payer). It's the worst of both worlds.
Besides, leave a non-emergency problem long enough and it becomes an emergency and then costs many times more to treat (see diabetes). If we want to avoid drowning in debt by making simple preventative care into eye-wateringly expensive acute care AND avoid living in Children Of Men levels of dystopia, a way to treat problems without incentivizing idleness is needed.
It's the same problem with benefits really, and I remain unconvinced that either of the extreme solutions (take away everything and give them everything) will give the desired result.
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M.C
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 00:19 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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| Falco wrote: | Yeah, and healthcare is a total nightmare [in USia] with people regularly going bankrupt over innocuous treatments. |
Poor people. What's the merit in keeping them alive?
| Falco wrote: | Besides, leave a non-emergency problem long enough and it becomes an emergency and then costs many times more to treat (see diabetes). |
Sure, that's a consideration. If you assume that treatment of poors should be funded by taxpayers.
That's precisely the opposite of what I'm advocating.
The poors can sod off to whichever State is idiotic enough to fund that care. I don't give a stuff who that is, as long as it's not us.
| Falco wrote: | Children Of Men levels of dystopia |
The birth rate of European woman has already put us there. Thanks, feminism!
Replacing those missing children with 80-ish IQ flipper babbies raised in a culture of women-hating rage-slaughter is not a great solution.
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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Lord Percy
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| M.C |
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M.C
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| Posted: 00:54 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | | M.C wrote: |
Nonce  I've genuinely not known people to be guarded about it, actually the opposite with the glamourisation of criminality etc. |
Surely depends on the crowd you mix with, or hope to mix with.
I'm pretty sure there'll be quite a few occasions in future when I have to keep quiet about being a shitlord Brexit voter.
So then when I go postal and GCHQ start rummaging through and revealing my internet usage history, everyone will be utterly stunned that their good neighbourly neighbour, Lord Percington Percival, was a member of BCF, creator of anti-SJW-feminism threads, regular viewer of Last Post Wins and a closet Brexit voter. Saddest revelation, it's like we never knew him, who knows what else he did behind closed doors  |
That's true  although I don't really have a say in who I work with or who my neighbours are. I'm not hiding that I voted for the UK to leave the EU, well unless she's really attractive |
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Falco
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| Posted: 01:41 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | Yeah, and healthcare is a total nightmare [in USia] with people regularly going bankrupt over innocuous treatments. |
Poor people. What's the merit in keeping them alive? |
You want to serve your own fries at Maccy Ds? Failing that...Soylent Green?
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | Besides, leave a non-emergency problem long enough and it becomes an emergency and then costs many times more to treat (see diabetes). |
Sure, that's a consideration. If you assume that treatment of poors should be funded by taxpayers.
That's precisely the opposite of what I'm advocating. |
Yes, but what happens to the poors? There are rather a lot of them, and if they feel they have nothing to loose it'll your windows the bricks come through (wealth envy is a terrible thing when those doing the envying think their lives can't get any worse). Unless you want to go the Brazil route (literal walled communities with armed guards and mega-cityesque lawlessness everywhere else), which is a valid (if slightly insane IMO) view.
| Rogerborg wrote: | The poors can sod off to whichever State is idiotic enough to fund that care. I don't give a stuff who that is, as long as it's not us. |
You think they won't come back if they think life is better here? Getting them out of the country only helps in the short term, if the rest of the world is a shit-hole it will spill over to us eventually. One problem at a time, but lets not pretend that we can export all the bad people away.
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | Children Of Men levels of dystopia |
The birth rate of European woman has already put us there. Thanks, feminism! |
Nope. Capitalism is firmly to blame I'm afraid! It's a victim of its own success. By Improving living standards like nothing before it, it has given us these birth rates. Personally I'm in favour of Cylon birth farms as the way to increase the populous.
Replacing those missing children with 80-ish IQ flipper babbies raised in a culture of women-hating rage-slaughter is not a great solution.[/quote]
No argument here, but what is the solution? (I honestly don't know)
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Falco
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 08:23 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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| Falco wrote: | | Rogerborg wrote: | Poor people. What's the merit in keeping them alive? |
You want to serve your own fries at Maccy Ds? |
Relevant to this thread, do you want a fatwa with that?
I'd rather have Frybot #37, thanks all the same.
| Rogerborg wrote: | Yes, but what happens to the poors [when the money hose is cut off]? |
One way outbound tickets, with their passports shredded on exit. Leaflets (in all the languages of Babel) explaining how to scam benefits in other countries.
I'm referring to my Omega Solution here, which is to cut off those convicted of crimes against the State (terrorism, anarchism, egregious liberalism), so it would be sausage slicing rather than shoving the whole salami in at once.
When I say "poor", I mean "undesirables", which is largely the same thing.
| Falco wrote: | You think they won't come back if they think life is better here? |
So we must ensure that it never is.
Universal Welfare State. Open borders. We'll have to make a choice, and soon.
| Falco wrote: | lets not pretend that we can export all the bad people away. |
Not forcibly, that wouldn't wash with Mumsnet. But we can strongly encourage them to leave, by starting with starving the badmen, and working our way down to the merely feckless.
| Falco wrote: | | Rogerborg wrote: | Replacing those missing children with 80-ish IQ flipper babbies raised in a culture of women-hating rage-slaughter is not a great solution. |
No argument here, but what is the solution? (I honestly don't know) |
Presented above. Stop funding those who tend to have flipper babby. It'll lower the tax burden, lower crime and the burden on housing, health care and infrastructure. Not all at once, but if we want to survive as a liberal, prosperous nation, we have to make a start, and the sooner we do it, the less painful it will be.
Encouraging Liber-Tina to actually have kids rather than believing that she can have a career as an astronaut-racing-driver-CEO first is a matter of perception management.
Imagine if all the propaganda directed at convincing us that diversity is strength were put into telling women the truth, that their ovaries are drying up, and that they can have babby then career, but not the other way around.
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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Posted: 11:43 - 26 Mar 2017  Post subject: |
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| Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: |
Ah, so they interviewed his neighbours before the attack did they? |
Are you lacking chromosomes as well as brains?
You're somehow trying to imply that because he was alright with his neighbours, and they've said he always seemed OK, that they're somehow condoning what he's done.
Anyway, most of his crimes were committed when he was a Christian, so shall we start a #ntdwc thread? |
No, you're missing the point. Whether they didn't know his history or not before the attack, they sure as hell would by the time the tv crew interviewed him. They would have known everything about him by then.
Why then, make him out to be a nice person? Even before the attack, by now they would have realised he had a long history of violent crime.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 11:59 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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If my ex neighbour turned out to be a serial killer 10 years after he moved, I would still say 'oh, he seemed a nice chap when he lived here'. A because that's the truth, and B if you say 'oh I always thought he was a bit Sutcliffe, you inherit the game of twenty questions where they ask why you didn't tell them he was a dodgy bastard and if you're in cahoots.
I realise the truth doesn't really matter with you, so would understand why you don't feel the need to tell it.
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grr666
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| Posted: 17:30 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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Weren't they using game lobbies in Call of Duty to communicate at one point as well?
It's okay though, hundreds of the 1.6 billion totally disapprove. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39392442
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 17:45 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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| grr666 wrote: | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39392442 |
Wow, literally claiming it's #ntdwi.
So, this isn't being promulgated in their mosques and madrassas, then?
If they won't even admit that their spellbook contains some pretty nasty stuff, and that it's being actively advocated by the people they're incanting with every Friday, how are they ever going to sort it out?
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 17:52 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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They have done that at every Muslim instigated atrocity since the twin towers. Nothing changes, but the PC brigade go to bed happy that (some) Muslims have disassociated themselves from what happened.
And now Corbyn wants the terrorist spooks to check the right wing bigots for racism etc. to show we aren't picking on Muslims. Shades of wasting resources because I'm so PC.  As if the BNP or Britain First has run over, blown up, killed people for their beliefs. The worst those idiots do is smear bacon fat on Mosque door handles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39398548
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 19:30 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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The guy who killed Jo Cox?
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| Posted: 19:44 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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Who wouldn't? Except for the occasional "bagging area" mishap the automated tills at supermarkets are now unequivocally better than the inefficient, hapless meat-bags at the normal tills.
| Rogerborg wrote: | I'm referring to my Omega Solution here, which is to cut off those convicted of crimes against the State (terrorism, anarchism, egregious liberalism), so it would be sausage slicing rather than shoving the whole salami in at once.
When I say "poor", I mean "undesirables", which is largely the same thing. |
Well...only one of those things is a crime. We haven't quite reached the point of criminalizing political philosophies (though there are certainly plenty of attempts to do so).
How are we defining poor in this scenario? I don't think I've ever had a job that paid more 11k before tax, but I've never used benefits beyond the NHS. Am I a poor? National Average wage? Anyone who needs tax credits? What is the metric here?
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | You think they won't come back if they think life is better here? |
So we must ensure that it never is.
Universal Welfare State. Open borders. We'll have to make a choice, and soon. |
Something has to give, but there is no appetite to address this on any side of the political spectrum that I can see. For all the railing against the EU for forcing us to give benefits to migrants, no government has shown the slightest inclination to use the controls available, to whit:
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance.
My point being, I don't see anything changing with borders being more tightly controlled (EU only of course, the number of non-EU migrants has also been not changed at all since the tory "tens of thousands" party got their hands on the levers of power) since we unwilling to use the powers we already have to try and deal with it.
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | lets not pretend that we can export all the bad people away. |
Not forcibly, that wouldn't wash with Mumsnet. But we can strongly encourage them to leave, by starting with starving the badmen, and working our way down to the merely feckless. |
Hmmm. I remain unconvinced that they would go to the trouble of leaving the country, when their next door neighbours have loads of stuff, just waiting to be taken and sold to the nearest cash-convertor. These aren't people noted for their entrepreneurial spirit or have-a-go attitude.
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | No argument here, but what is the solution? (I honestly don't know) |
Presented above. Stop funding those who tend to have flipper babby. It'll lower the tax burden, lower crime and the burden on housing, health care and infrastructure. Not all at once, but if we want to survive as a liberal, prosperous nation, we have to make a start, and the sooner we do it, the less painful it will be. |
Debatable, as above I am not sure why you think these people will leave rather than turn to crime? They already do so without much provocation, why do you think financial punishment is suddely going to change their long engraied
Who wouldn't? Except for the occasional "bagging area" mishap the automated tills at supermarkets are now unequivocally better than the inefficient, hapless meat-bags at the normal tills.
| Rogerborg wrote: | I'm referring to my Omega Solution here, which is to cut off those convicted of crimes against the State (terrorism, anarchism, egregious liberalism), so it would be sausage slicing rather than shoving the whole salami in at once.
When I say "poor", I mean "undesirables", which is largely the same thing. |
Well...only one of those things is a crime. We haven't quite reached the point of criminalizing political philosophies (though there are certainly plenty of attempts to do so).
How are we defining poor in this scenario? I don't think I've ever had a job that paid more 11k before tax, but I've never used benefits beyond the NHS. Am I a poor? National Average wage? Anyone who needs tax credits? What is the metric here?
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | You think they won't come back if they think life is better here? |
So we must ensure that it never is. |
Universal Welfare State. Open borders. We'll have to make a choice, and soon.[/quote]
Something has to give, but there is no appetite to address this on any side of the political spectrum that I can see. For all the railing against the EU for forcing us to give benefits to migrants, no government has shown the slightest inclination to use the controls available, to whit:
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance.
My point being, I don't see anything changing with borders being more tightly controlled (EU only of course, the number of non-EU migrants has also been not changed at all since the tory "tens of thousands" party got their hands on the levers of power) since we unwilling to use the powers we already have to try and deal with it.
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | lets not pretend that we can export all the bad people away. |
Not forcibly, that wouldn't wash with Mumsnet. But we can strongly encourage them to leave, by starting with starving the badmen, and working our way down to the merely feckless. |
Hmmm. I remain unconvinced that they would go to the trouble of leaving the country, when their next door neighbours have loads of stuff, just waiting to be taken and sold to the nearest cash-convertor. These aren't people noted for their entrepreneurial spirit or have-a-go attitude.
| Rogerborg wrote: | | Falco wrote: | No argument here, but what is the solution? (I honestly don't know) |
Presented above. Stop funding those who tend to have flipper babby. It'll lower the tax burden, lower crime and the burden on housing, health care and infrastructure. Not all at once, but if we want to survive as a liberal, prosperous nation, we have to make a start, and the sooner we do it, the less painful it will be. |
Debatable, as above I am not sure why you think these people will leave rather than turn to crime? They already do so without much provocation, why do you think financial punishment is suddenly going to change their long engrained delinquent behaviours.
| Rogerborg wrote: | Encouraging Liber-Tina to actually have kids rather than believing that she can have a career as an astronaut-racing-driver-CEO first is a matter of perception management.
Imagine if all the propaganda directed at convincing us that diversity is strength were put into telling women the truth, that their ovaries are drying up, and that they can have babby then career, but not the other way around. |
Encouraging anyone to do all that is doomed to failure. They could always have their eggs frozen and have them later in life. Personally I think that's a damn sight more sensible than trying to conceive naturally later in life. The probabilities on having Downs babies are not favorable after ~40 and only get less so. However, while it might make their child-rearing experience worse, I find it hard to muster much opprobrium for child bearing at one age over another.
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 21:37 - 26 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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You are the Teffers of the politics section and I claim my 5 ponds.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 31 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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