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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
is this Sweden?

It's well on the way to becoming Sweden. Just give it time.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
It's funny the intention of this thread and what it turned into, I do wonder if this is close enough for Jewlio to give a shit Thinking


He's a Wigan inhabitant I believe. Unless they blow up the local pie eating venue or the Uncle Joe's Mint Balls factory he's unlikely to be affected.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:
I'm agreeing with Rog, you should quote it in context - an assumption of dindunuffin on his jihad holiday? Why?


It needs no context. If you can prove ^^^ beyond reasonable doubt then it's fine. If you can't you've just started finger pointing. I have no objection to ejecting them, but you need to have more than "I think you're bad, you must be bad, get out".

Given, prior to that Roger had already sodded off the ECJ and ECHR the slope is already pre-greased.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Finding Andy Burnham disgusting actually, he's already talking about unity and arranging a vigil.

If I were a snackbarista, I know exactly what and whom I'd be targeting as a followup. As a bonus, you could be sure that you wouldn't be hitting any of the umma.

Can you have a vigil for a vigil?


ScaredyCat wrote:
It needs no context. If you can prove ^^^ beyond reasonable doubt then it's fine.

Then it's fine. For clarity, my issue is with an assumption of innocence after conviction for snackbar, or giving the benefit of an unreasonable doubt to those who have chosen to travel to snackbar regions and then come back again.

The principle that you can simply jail the snackbar out of them is ludicrous. You don't change an ideology based on victimhood by incarcerating it. Gaols are practically snackbar recruitment centres now.


ScaredyCat wrote:
Given, prior to that Roger had already sodded off the ECJ and ECHR the slope is already pre-greased.

Would that I had, chap, would that I had.

I'm not even saying that I disagree with the principles in the ECHR (my problems are with the loopholes), it's the interminable appeals that wind me up, and UK courts shrugging and saying "Well, we'd like to, but Strasbourg might not like it."

Actually, I missed one from the list:

Arrow Actually deport every singe person ordered for deportation by our courts rather than the 5% rate that we currently achieve according to a UK immigration judge.
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BTTD
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Joined: 22 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
jnw010 wrote:
I'm agreeing with Rog, you should quote it in context - an assumption of dindunuffin on his jihad holiday? Why?


It needs no context. If you can prove ^^^ beyond reasonable doubt then it's fine. If you can't you've just started finger pointing. I have no objection to ejecting them, but you need to have more than "I think you're bad, you must be bad, get out".


Maybe I'm reading the meaning differently to you. I'm not saying ban everyone who turns up at the border wearing a nightdress, but if they've been on holidays to a training camp for radicals I'd like to think that we could just say no thanks to their offer to culturally enrich our country. Presently it rather feels like we're letting people in / back in regardless, because the assumption is they're probably not bad eggs.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Theresa May wrote:
We know the identity but can't release any details whilst a narrative's being concocted.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Theresa May wrote:
We know the identity but can't release any details whilst the NTDWI rhetoric is being concocted.


FTFY! Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be fair, they will be whistling up arrest[*] warrants and rounding up all of his family and acquaintances right now - none of whom will have done nothing or know nothing and him were a good boy who wouldn't have done nothing like this never - so they don't want to tip them off until all the back doors have been put in.

[*] Unlegal arrest, racialphobia, compo.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Even if he is Muslim, he wont be at fault, he will have been easily led and radicalised online by that pesky internets that we have to censor more.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:
Maybe I'm reading the meaning differently to you. I'm not saying ban everyone who turns up at the border wearing a nightdress, but if they've been on holidays to a training camp for radicals I'd like to think that we could just say no thanks to their offer to culturally enrich our country.


If you can establish this, then I have no issue with saying "Go away, you're not welcome".


Rogerborg wrote:

my issue is with an assumption of innocence after conviction for snackbar


I agree, although a right of appeal (one, not endless) for the offence - as is afforded to anyone else.

Rogerborg wrote:

to those who have chosen to travel to snackbar regions and then come back again.


If you mean to a training camp, and you can establish this then I agree. If you mean any predominantly Muslim country / region then I disagree.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pjay wrote:
Even if he is Muslim, he wont be

Edited for accuracy.

I mean, not a real one. Despite following the instruction manual.



ScaredyCat wrote:
jnw010 wrote:
if they've been on holidays to a training camp for radicals I'd like to think that we could just say no thanks to their offer to culturally enrich our country.

If you can establish this, then I have no issue with saying "Go away, you're not welcome".

We're back to wrangling over how much doubt is reasonable. Given the consequences of getting it wrong (see current #ntdwi) I'd suggest that the burden of proof should be shifted[*] substantially.

We are pretty good at tracking the movements of UK citizens into and out of snackbar regions (Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan). The issue is that we don't much about it afterwards other than put them on reactive watch lists.

Perhaps you'd like a right of appeal to that as well?


[*] We don't have a constitution. We already have an offence where the burden of proof is explicitly on the defence - continuous insurance. I find that abhorrent, but if we're going to abuse that principle, I'd like it to be for anti-snackbar purposes.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spotted in Trowbridge
3 hrs
Thoughts with all those in Manchester. What a dark day. A atrocious evil act of pure extremism. What a cowardly bastard that suicide bomber was. Sad, sad times. As always, when disillusioned with human nature, look for the helpers. One act of hate, one sea of kindness in response, from the amazing selfless work of ALL those in the Emergency services and everyone else who has rallied round to give shelter, food, first aid, and love.
#StandWithManchester
A small minority of extremists want us all to hate each other. #StandUnitedAgaintTerrorism

https://www.facebook.com/spottedintrowbridgetown/posts/1934155990186224?comment_id=1934157603519396&reply_comment_id=1934218180180005¬if_t=feed_comment_reply¬if_id=1495523928362209

Snackbar related comments are needed. Laughing
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some people think that a 'true' solution may be needed.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Perhaps you'd like a right of appeal to that as well?


To what, watch lists? They're a joke. It's a process of checking and passing around names. Not even identity, just names.

Raffles wrote:
Some people think that a 'true' solution may be needed.


Try not to encourage her.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
spottedintrowbridgetown wrote:
What a cowardly bastard that suicide bomber was.


Coward? Hardly. He was a martyr dying for a cause. Cunt. Twat. Barbarian. Murderer and more yes, but coward fuck no. Would Spottedintrowbridgetown ever dream of dying for a cause they believed in, let alone strap a bag of explosives and shrapnel on their back to do so, and be sacrified along with those they killed?

The cowards are all those that bury their heads in the sand every time another event like this occurs. The cowards with the inability to deal with an escalating reality that won't go away, and can't be masked by Prayfor... hashtags and similar chants and vigils for love and peace.

Convert or die, it's as simple as that. While you're at it make sure it's the right brand of snackbar and that you're 100% snackbar or you'll still die by the hand of other 100%++ snackbar for not being a true believer.
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craigT19
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Joined: 09 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pjay wrote:
Even if he is Muslim, he wont be at fault, he will have been easily led and radicalised online by that pesky internets that we have to censor more.


Dont forget that they would of caught him too if it wasnt for those pesky encrypted messenger services like whatsapp Laughing
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:


Arrow Withdraw entirely from all military operations in all muslim countries. Wish the septics the very best of luck. Remove all possible excuses.
Arrow Revoke the 1972 ECA.
Arrow Withdrawn from the ECJ and ECHR.
Arrow Halt all Saudi funding of mosques.
Arrow Rename the Department for International Development as the Department for Internal Deradicalisation (they won't even have to change their mouse mats and mugs). Direct its £12 billion of funding at deporting snackbar preachers (we already know who they are), bribing dusty armpits whatever is necessary to take them
Arrow When that creates a new tranche of snackbar advocates, deport them too. Repeat as necessary. £12 billion, remember.
Arrow Revoke citizenship and shred passports on exit, both for ejected snackbars, and for those headed for a jihad holiday. Again, we already have a list. The problem is a reactive policy, an assumption of innocence, and letting the feckers back in again.
Arrow Secure our borders. Immigration only on a points system. Being muslim or from a muslim nation scores negative a trillion. No fugees. No "right to a family life" mass imports. Not our problem.
Arrow And most importantly, cut all welfare funding and access to all services including and especially legal aid for anyone with foreign or dual citizenship. The only funding should be for one way outgoing flights, and bribing despots to take their problems back.

Note the lack of cattle trucks, gas chambers or images of wailing families being thrown onto flights.

We are an island nation, we can do this. Australia can do it. The only thing stopping us is a lack of will.


Agree with all that Karma.

Never had you down as one who agrees that a big part of the problem is western interests 'spreading peace' in the middle ease.

I do think the UK would be a whole lot safer if our army wasn't sent to help cause havoc in a part of the world that 3 million or more of our own population have relations with.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://i.imgur.com/3AH4c8m.png
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
I do think the UK would be a whole lot safer if our army wasn't sent to help cause havoc in a part of the world that 3 million or more of our own population have relations with.

That's a BS excuse IMO. If we had an IRA style campaign, with defined goals (get your military off Muslim lands), then I can see how that would work. This is an attack on our way of life and a wish to impose their frankly backwards beliefs on us.

I don't think nations should get involved in conflicts other countries, sort of a prime directive, but if Afganistan/Iraq/Syria never happened we'd still have this problem.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/3AH4c8m.png

They had an adverting board flash up with that (and an image of a union jack... flag), behind the BBC news coverage this morning Confused
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
I do think the UK would be a whole lot safer if our army wasn't sent to help cause havoc in a part of the world that 3 million or more of our own population have relations with.

That's a BS excuse IMO. If we had an IRA style campaign, with defined goals (get your military off Muslim lands), then I can see how that would work. This is an attack on our way of life and a wish to impose their frankly backwards beliefs on us.

I don't think nations should get involved in conflicts other countries, sort of a prime directive, but if Afganistan/Iraq/Syria never happened we'd still have this problem.


So why didn't the Jewish, Hindu or Afro-Caribbean community do it when they were the ones coming over in droves?

I understand there is now a full-on ISIS quest to defeat Europe, with all that caliphate nonsense etc, but I highly doubt it would have had that much support if it weren't for the destruction of of most of the middle-east. There are plenty of articles explaining how the power vacuum that was left after the toppling of Iraq and nearby areas was filled readily by extremists who were previously kept in good check by legitimate local governments (that western interests destroyed on purpose).
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Again not all terrorism's ISIS. My understanding's (from people who met Osama Binbag) is that it was the early nineties they started to become fixated on the west. You can point to earlier conflicts but they were unsuccessful in terms of creating the power vacuum that you seem to think was needed for radical Islam to thrive.

Honestly it's another BS narrative, mainly used by 'moderate' Muslims (I know) to justify their no-so-moderate opinions. I think I'm right in saying most (if not all) of the attacks have been from UK born Muslims.

Why they identify with a land far away they've not even visited in a lot of cases, is the question you need to be asking. The answer's that radicalisation has more to do with the opposing values of the west than any conflict going on.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
Never had you down as one who agrees that a big part of the problem is western interests 'spreading peace' in the middle ease.

I absolutely do. Pretty much the only thing that I agree with Comrade Corbyn on is that our defence forces should be used as a last resort against direct military threats to the UK, not economic threats to the USian economy.

Iraq and Libya were both pretty obviously abject lessons in what happens to your regime - and your person - if you try to get off the petrodollar.

On the covert scene, funding snackbar groups was a reasonable enough tactic when they were happy enough to slaughter each other in the same region. Now that they've started coming for our children here, that's where the utility of that strategy ends.

Maybe one day we'll turn up those WMDs though.

It's not sufficient to deal with snackbar in the UK, but it's a necessary first step to remove all possible justification for it.
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craigT19
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:


So why didn't the Jewish, Hindu or Afro-Caribbean community do it when they were the ones coming over in droves?


Why would Afro Caribbeans demand the uk changed to meet their needs when they came here? They were largely christian or catholic and the uk for the most part already either followed their belief system or something very similar.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

I don't think nations should get involved in conflicts other countries, sort of a prime directive, but if Afganistan/Iraq/Syria never happened we'd still have this problem.


You say this like interference is a new thing. The Taliban were 'good guys' whilst the US was supporting them against the Russians in Afghanistan.

It's not even a new thing.

Saddam was an excuse to get at the oil. Then what oh yeah, remove a tyrant, create a power vacuum.

The blame for a lot of this lies firmly at the feet of the US and Russia who are busy helping themselves and selling arms to whoever will buy them.

Israel and Palestine? That's our fault. This country is to blame for that mess.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 339 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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