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johnsmith222
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 14 Feb 2017    Post subject: Tyre Changer - Cars Reply with quote
Hi Guys,

I have changed and balanced tyres on motorcycles for years now, and I am thinking of doing the same for my car too.

I was looking at this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dirty-Pro-Professional-Motorcycle-Motorbike/dp/B01HOFMY3O/ref=pd_sbs_60_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=DWP5DQ44A9589CNE043H

and a nylon bar for changing tyres on alloys: https://www.justoffbase.co.uk/TC963-V3.jpg

Can anyone confirm this is suitable for 17 inch alloy car wheels? (don't worry, I know the bar isn't! Laughing )


The 2 problems I'm hoping this will solve are:

1. my bead breaker currently only supports 200mm wide wheels, as it's meant for bikes.

2. This should make changing 4 tyres less strenuous than using levers.

I'm not really bothered about using it for bike tyres.

I only seem to see this tyre changer being marketed towards motorcycle, and mini tyres:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO0wkRtU4GY


The other option is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_2SD-snd0

but the bead breaker bends more, and I'd need to be more careful with the method used to secure alloys.

Thank you for any help Very Happy
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BTTD
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Joined: 22 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 14 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
How do you plan to balance the wheels? My understanding is that a basic static balance isn't very effective. Differs to motorcycle wheels as the mounting for car wheels is offset to one face of the wheel.

I have taken large 4x4 tyres off using g cramps + wood blocks to break the bead and motorcycle tyre levers. I had to get the tyres off to replace tyre valve sensors. In that instance I just marked the tyres and put them back on as they came off so didn't need to re-balance.

What size tyres are you changing? I'd expect wide low profile tyres to be a real fcker to do.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can get pretty close with the basic method (being offset should not change the result), but I'd still just bring the wheels to my local tyre shop and ask them to check the balance.

I don't quite understand the urge to change your own car tyres. Although it is nice to save some £££ doing as much as you can yourself, the car tyres last much longer than motorcycle tyres, meaing you don't have to change them that often. Unless you're doing track days in your car, of course.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
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jowettdriver
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Joined: 09 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Clarke version of the tyre changer you have linked to and have changed loads of car tyres on it. I even changed the van tyres on my campervan using it. I have always used nylon rim protectors with the supplied steel bar but am now looking to buy a bar like you have linked to as the alloys on my new car are perfect and I want them to stay that way!

As for balancing I have a motorcycle tyre balancer and I turned up some suitable adapters to fit car wheels and have balanced all of my car tyres using it with excellent results. After balancing all of my wheels have run without wobble or vibration to in excess of 100 mph (private road of course).

Downsides are that it takes some effort for some tyres. The supplied bar is a little short and sometimes requires two people to work it. For a long time I used mine without fixing it down and then about 3 months ago I got so fed up that I drilled and epoxyed 4 threaded inserts into a concrete pad to fix the changer down. This has made it so much easier to use.

Cheers Tim.
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johnsmith222
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:
How do you plan to balance the wheels? My understanding is that a basic static balance isn't very effective. Differs to motorcycle wheels as the mounting for car wheels is offset to one face of the wheel.

I have taken large 4x4 tyres off using g cramps + wood blocks to break the bead and motorcycle tyre levers. I had to get the tyres off to replace tyre valve sensors. In that instance I just marked the tyres and put them back on as they came off so didn't need to re-balance.

What size tyres are you changing? I'd expect wide low profile tyres to be a real fcker to do.


I was planning on the static balance method with bubble balancers. I've heard some varied experiences with static balancing, with some saying they haven't had any problems with them, and others saying they had vibration issues. i figured I could live with minor vibrations, as I tend to take it easy.

I heard the wider a wheel is, the worse bubble balancers are too. I guess it makes sense, as there's no guesswork of the lateral position of the weights.

I've also looked into dynabeads, but I've heard mixed opinions on using those, or similar methods.

I'd be looking at changing 225/55 R17 tyres, so just over being considered low profile.

Thanks for the tips for the G clamp method. It could be possible, but it's one of those things that I'd rather spend less messing about with a decent bead breaker.
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johnsmith222
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
You can get pretty close with the basic method (being offset should not change the result), but I'd still just bring the wheels to my local tyre shop and ask them to check the balance.

I don't quite understand the urge to change your own car tyres. Although it is nice to save some £££ doing as much as you can yourself, the car tyres last much longer than motorcycle tyres, meaing you don't have to change them that often. Unless you're doing track days in your car, of course.


Thanks Rhyno, That's good to hear that they can be balanced close with the static balancer, although taking them to be checked at a tyre shop each time would defeat the purpose of balancing them myself.

That's fair enough if you don't understand changing car tyres. I guess part of it is I enjoy the hobby side of working on my own vehicles, and tyres is one of those jobs which is always going to need done. Part of it is being a cheapskate, as it lets me buy brand new tyres online and fit them myself, rather than being restricted by whatever tyres are in stock at local places).

I've heard to expect to pay roughly £60 a tyre including fitting, compared to £40 from oponeo for some reasonable budget ones, so for my first set, it would save me £80. I'd rather put that £80 towards new tools, than pay for fitting Smile.

Part of it is the convenience side of things. Working 6 to 7 days, it's more convinient for me to fit a tyre in the evening myself, rather than booking in.

I've also got friends with similar hobbies, such as breaking cars etc, and we always share tools between us, so it would get more use than just for my own car.
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johnsmith222
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jowettdriver wrote:
I have the Clarke version of the tyre changer you have linked to and have changed loads of car tyres on it. I even changed the van tyres on my campervan using it. I have always used nylon rim protectors with the supplied steel bar but am now looking to buy a bar like you have linked to as the alloys on my new car are perfect and I want them to stay that way!

As for balancing I have a motorcycle tyre balancer and I turned up some suitable adapters to fit car wheels and have balanced all of my car tyres using it with excellent results. After balancing all of my wheels have run without wobble or vibration to in excess of 100 mph (private road of course).

Downsides are that it takes some effort for some tyres. The supplied bar is a little short and sometimes requires two people to work it. For a long time I used mine without fixing it down and then about 3 months ago I got so fed up that I drilled and epoxyed 4 threaded inserts into a concrete pad to fix the changer down. This has made it so much easier to use.

Cheers Tim.


Hi Tim, can i double check which tyre changer is is that you have, as I linked two? I know these changers get sold under various names, but I'm convinced they're all made at the same place, so your experience with your clarke one is really useful Smile

I have quite a few rim protectors that I use on the bike, but I think I'd end up just going for the bar meant for alloys if I was doing my car. That way less worry about damage Smile

That's interesting to hear about your experience balancing with the car wheels. I also have a motorcycle balancer, so I could attempt something similar, although I don't have access to a lathe, so would likely end up just getting one of the bubble balancers.

Wow, I'm surprised you even got it to work without fixing it down! I did see some people fixing it to a wooden pallet, so was considering doing that as a temporary measure, until I could do exactly what you said, and use threaded inserts. I'd need to do that so I could move it out the way when I'm not using it, as I understand I'd need space to work.
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iooi
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
bluezedd wrote:

I've heard to expect to pay roughly £60 a tyre including fitting, compared to £40 from oponeo for some reasonable budget ones, so for my first set, it would save me £80. I'd rather put that £80 towards new tools, than pay for fitting Smile.


Depends on what tyre's you are looking at..

Also do not forget any disposal charges. Many local councils will not take tyre's, or if they do charge.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not sure about UK, but here the tyre shops charge per procedure.

Tyre off = £££
Tyre on = £££
Balancing = £££
Each individual weight = £££ per 1g
Valves and air = free of charge

So if you did the tyre off and on, then balanced it, then brought it in to check the balancing job you've done, and if alright, you'd only pay one charge £££, per wheel of course.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
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BTTD
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Joined: 22 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
bluezedd wrote:

I've also looked into dynabeads, but I've heard mixed opinions on using those, or similar methods.

I'd be looking at changing 225/55 R17 tyres, so just over being considered low profile.

Thanks for the tips for the G clamp method. It could be possible, but it's one of those things that I'd rather spend less messing about with a decent bead breaker.


I've used plastic pellets on biggish 4x4 tyres before. Not perfect, but they did work. Accelerating up to speed there was some vibration and then it settled down. Never felt as good as properly balanced wheels.
I've heard that trial and error with the amount of pellets can improve things, but I never got around to adjusting it.
The G clamp method is slow and fiddly, as is using small buzzetti tyre irons. I'm not recommending it over a proper bead breaker and a no mar bar! Just what I had at the time.
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jowettdriver
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 09 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: 09:36 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
bluezedd wrote:


Hi Tim, can i double check which tyre changer is is that you have, as I linked two? I know these changers get sold under various names, but I'm convinced they're all made at the same place, so your experience with your clarke one is really useful Smile

I have quite a few rim protectors that I use on the bike, but I think I'd end up just going for the bar meant for alloys if I was doing my car. That way less worry about damage Smile

That's interesting to hear about your experience balancing with the car wheels. I also have a motorcycle balancer, so I could attempt something similar, although I don't have access to a lathe, so would likely end up just getting one of the bubble balancers.

Wow, I'm surprised you even got it to work without fixing it down! I did see some people fixing it to a wooden pallet, so was considering doing that as a temporary measure, until I could do exactly what you said, and use threaded inserts. I'd need to do that so I could move it out the way when I'm not using it, as I understand I'd need space to work.


Sorry chap turns out the one I have is made by Sealey, because its bright red I tend to think Clarke!

Its this one https://tinyurl.com/zocfwyh although I'm fairly sure I didn't pay that much for mine. Its built fairly well and I've not managed to bend it other than the supplied bar which did get a little bent doing van tyres!!

One thing I would recommend with balancing is that I bought a couple of kilos of the self adhesive weights that stick on normally intended for alloy wheels. I use these on steelys as well and its really easy to stick them on with a bit of masking tape to play around with getting the balance right before you peel off the back and stick them for good.

Other advice I can give is that tyre soap is invaluable, washing up liquid etc does not work the same. Also I bought a box of new valves and the thread on tool to pull them through for a few pounds as its always a good idea to change the valves out when changing tyres as they do deteriorate in the sun.

I tried the pallet idea for securing the changer and have to say it didn't help that much for me. For the sake of about £20 for the inserts and epoxy I wish I had sorted my fixings sooner! Yes you will need room to walk all the way around it.

With regard to low profile tyres, I have just put a pair of 225 45 17's on my Z3 and have to say they were some of the easiest I have changed. The hardest were a pair of new Metzlers on my CG - go figure! In my experience it doesn't seem to be the profile but more how stiff the tyre carcass seems to be.

Hope this helps.

Cheers Tim.
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