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London lane removals, 2012 - 2017 (RJ vlog, oh noes)

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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: London lane removals, 2012 - 2017 (RJ vlog, oh noes) Reply with quote

TRIGGER WARNING: vlogger.

No talky-bollocks (Royal Jordanian, yo), just a demonstration of London's obsession with removing road capacity in order to... worsen congestion, I guess. I can't see any other reason.

The contrast between road space and traffic flow in 2012 and 2017 is pretty startling.

The goal seems to be to make the roads so inconvenient with removed, narrowed or special purpose lanes, "calming" and double whites that people just give up and stop using them. It's clearly not working.

Where That London leads, I fear the provinces are sure to follow. Pale
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doggone
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: London lane removals, 2012 - 2017 (RJ vlog, oh noes) Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
TRIGGER WARNING: vlogger.

No talky-bollocks (Royal Jordanian, yo), just a demonstration of London's obsession with removing road capacity in order to... worsen congestion, I guess. I can't see any other reason.

The contrast between road space and traffic flow in 2012 and 2017 is pretty startling.

The goal seems to be to make the roads so inconvenient with removed, narrowed or special purpose lanes, "calming" and double whites that people just give up and stop using them. It's clearly not working.

Where That London leads, I fear the provinces are sure to follow. Pale


Increasing air pollution by maximising time spent almost stationary.
Thus giving a 'good' excuse for closing large areas completely.
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derillius24
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

How the folks of Landan manage to commute in these conditions everyday (for a whole working life for many, I imagine) is just beyond me.

Perhaps being Scootch, and living away from the Central Belt, I'm existing in a sparsely populated bubble however I've always thought the same thing; many of those living in London who absolutely despise the place, I know quite a few, could get a similar job in numerous other parts of the UK where stress levels owing to stuff like traffic, congestion, general mindset and outrageous living costs are a world apart. Yet, the magnetism continues.

Stockholm Syndrome?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

And driving the traffic, congestion and pollution elsewhere.

The aptly named Hope Street in Glasgow Toon is currently Scotchland's most polluted road. Because why? Because they put the air monitoring station right beside the railway Central Station, next to a taxi rank. Idling taxis, mostly empty buses belching and roaring up there all day, even a few bewildered private cars going around and around the one-way / bus-lane / empty-cycle-lane system while searching for an increasingly scarce parking spot, what do you expect.

Hilariously, the watermelons'[*] magical solution, public transport, has actually created localised pollution.

At the same time, the Cooncil is systematically removing outlying parking within walking distance of the city centre, which will just force more proles onto the groaning buses and trains where they can all get a nice lungful of those sweet nitrousy diesel emissions. It's OK though, they are putting "cycle highways" in in place of the parking, which will doubtless see a few hardy souls use them a couple of days a year.

The thought that they could just rip up the bus lanes and turn some of the many brown-field bomb-sites into car parks instead of yet more offices and flats with no parking facilities has never occurred to them.

The Cooncil and Scotch government offices in Glasgow all have private parking for their High Heid Yins, of course, because the burdens of State lie heavy on their shoulders and they need to arrive refreshed and ready.

[*] Green on the outside, red on the inside.
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derillius24
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
And driving the traffic, congestion and pollution elsewhere.


Agreed, and absolutely not something that I wish for. It's just a thought, an observation perhaps, that makes me feel all smug. And horny for an Irn-Bru.
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kramdra
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont see any significant change for most drivers in his video. Olympic lanes that few could use. Does not account for the visible increase in traffic, probaby just different time of day.
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Serendipity
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 17 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Olympic "Games Lanes" were only marked for a few months. Before and after that the stretch of Victoria Embankment shown in the vid was two lanes each way for all traffic for most of the way.

It used to be one of my routes into The City, however along with another of my old routes, the Farringdon Road, it has been completely ruined with the cycle super highways (because that's the reason for this road narrowing).

I'm not against separating cycletards from normal road users, but it should really be concentrated on good junction design (for that is where most of them dive under the nearest HGV) rather than reducing huge amounts of road capacity.

The fact that the recent changes have crippled motorcycle filtering is lower on the TfL radar than the rights of local wildlife.

Rogerborg wrote:
... worsen congestion, I guess. I can't see any other reason.


You can see the cyclists packing out their new lane over to the right of the 2017 footage (well ok you can see 1 cyclist at about 2:25). There's a new bit of pavement then their lane. Bit hard to make it out, but it's actually a full road width. That's where the missing 4th lane went.

Edit: Useless without pics right?

https://i.imgur.com/C9L5bSQh.jpg
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 17 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've moaned before what an abortion they've made of Victoria Embankment. Much tighter lanes with double-whites and islands to actively discourage filtering.

So all you get now is a procession of bikes filtering over slippery white lines with HGVs either side. Thumbs Up Brilliant 'safety' work TFL..

Rolling Eyes
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 17 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

derillius24 wrote:
How the folks of Landan manage to commute in these conditions everyday (for a whole working life for many, I imagine) is just beyond me.

Perhaps being Scootch, and living away from the Central Belt, I'm existing in a sparsely populated bubble however I've always thought the same thing; many of those living in London who absolutely despise the place, I know quite a few, could get a similar job in numerous other parts of the UK where stress levels owing to stuff like traffic, congestion, general mindset and outrageous living costs are a world apart. Yet, the magnetism continues.

Stockholm Syndrome?

I agree with everything you've said. I will say it depends when you need to be at work, my shifts meant I missed rush hour, the only journey I didn't like was getting caught up in the (after) school run.

Kris wrote:
I've moaned before what an abortion they've made of Victoria Embankment. Much tighter lanes with double-whites and islands to actively discourage filtering.

So all you get now is a procession of bikes filtering over slippery white lines with HGVs either side. Thumbs Up Brilliant 'safety' work TFL..

Rolling Eyes

It's an appalling piece of work, I really don't see the point of it running along the river, or at all actually as the embankment had wide/decent cycle lanes before.

In a few places they've made lanes so narrow they're dangerous, Vauxhall Bridge, Mile End Road (near the station) are so narrow now I have the straddle the bus lane and/or opposite lane in my work van. The segregated (CS2) cycle lane on the A11 means if I'm turning left I can't see what's coming (in my mirrors), I have to hope cyclists have stopped at their red light, or with this junction just hope:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.528416,-0.0175712,3a,75y,233.79h,71.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4XCzCcqAlq8MAT3b2__a1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

It annoys me cos it has a) made it more dangerous for other road users and b) put me in a position where I'm not 100% in control of whether I hit a cyclist (remember this is all meant to make cycling safer). I know not everyone drives vans but there are quite a lot of vans/lorries etc. on London roads.
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goto10
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 19 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: London lane removals, 2012 - 2017 (RJ vlog, oh noes) Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
TRIGGER WARNING: vlogger.

No talky-bollocks (Royal Jordanian, yo), just a demonstration of London's obsession with removing road capacity in order to... worsen congestion, I guess. I can't see any other reason.

The contrast between road space and traffic flow in 2012 and 2017 is pretty startling.

The goal seems to be to make the roads so inconvenient with removed, narrowed or special purpose lanes, "calming" and double whites that people just give up and stop using them. It's clearly not working.

Where That London leads, I fear the provinces are sure to follow. Pale


That's the exact route I _used_ to go home, it's now completely unbearable, for some reason they've decided to make it really hard for motorcycles to make progress too - with double whites and raised kerbing it's next to impossible to filter (with the baffling decision to completely close off some lanes, they could've at least made them motorcycle lanes to encourage the use of PTWs, which reduce congestion for everyone)
So I now go home via a different route (commercial road, fact fans) - I still come in that way in the mornings though, the other direction still has two lanes....for the moment.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 19 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: London lane removals, 2012 - 2017 (RJ vlog, oh noes) Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Where That London leads, I fear the provinces are sure to follow. Pale


Cambridge.

I commuted there, once, on a 125. It was horrible. 125 was nice to ride, journey was fine until I was on the outskirts of Cambridge.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:28 - 20 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: London lane removals, 2012 - 2017 (RJ vlog, oh noes) Reply with quote

goto10 wrote:
That's the exact route I _used_ to go home, it's now completely unbearable, for some reason they've decided to make it really hard for motorcycles to make progress too - with double whites and raised kerbing it's next to impossible to filter (with the baffling decision to completely close off some lanes, they could've at least made them motorcycle lanes to encourage the use of PTWs, which reduce congestion for everyone)
So I now go home via a different route (commercial road, fact fans) - I still come in that way in the mornings though, the other direction still has two lanes....for the moment.

I don't think they care about motorbikes, I'd be surprised if they even enter TFL's thinking. Thinking about Lower Thames Street, the only problem with the old cycle lane was that motorbikes used to cut in at speed, which made it somewhat dangerous. Oh and the random places it would end as seen in the top pic':
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oRNpNyyoDK4/V2MgBgfdihI/AAAAAAAACB0/OpLLqs4xTMY9Yu2nW_icgvVZhaZxqPIZgCLcB/s1600/10.jpg

However I think it's unnecessary, it's empty outside rush hour (like most cycling infrastructure). It's almost as if they deliberately set out to f**k up the few roads which did work.
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kerr
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PostPosted: 02:13 - 20 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have my hippy head on here, but isn't it yet another gubberment scam?
Yknow intentionally make the congestion worse so they can heap on more tax.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 20 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: London lane removals, 2012 - 2017 (RJ vlog, oh noes) Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
London's obsession with removing road capacity in order to... worsen congestion, I guess. I can't see any other reason


Yeah, I don't really understand this either.

Barely anyone actually commutes via private car into the congestion zone. There's no parking, if there is parking it's stonkingly expensive. I suspect if you counted the number of spaces inside the congestion zone and allowed all those cars to drive in you'd have zero problems. You're basically talking top management only.

The actual thing that happens is that people take taxis (exempt), take deliveries (will always be paid for as people want shops in Central), do construction work, etc. All stuff that happens no matter how many proles you can pack into a tube.

Despite all of that, at least in my bit of West London driving about outside of peak hours is absolutely fine. No, you won't be doing the speed limit, but you'll still get there in more comfort and likely less time than you would in the rabbit hutch. I'm sure eventually it'll filter out until that's gone too, though.

I'd be interested to know how many cars the Toxicity Charge (surcharge for pre Euro 4) is expected to affect during the congestion zone hours. Based on a vague survey of looking at stuff driving about it feels like a tiny percentage. Even after hours, I suspect the majority of cars in Central are taxis / prius private hire / flash new shiny.
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natefz6
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

It's an appalling piece of work, I really don't see the point of it running along the river, or at all actually as the embankment had wide/decent cycle lanes before.


And when they had a pavement the width of a football field they could have bastadised instead of making the road narrower.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 02:43 - 24 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The particularly frustrating thing to me is the ridiculous width of the cycle lanes compared to what would actually be necessary. Some of them could be half the width and still easily allow bidirectional flow.

Completely destroys filtering.

For the cagers, well, I have a narrow car and it's annoying enough. Can't imagine what it'd be like in a chelsea tractor/HGV.

I use basically every form of transport in the city according to what I feel like at the time. Walking, cycling, driving, motorbike, tube, bus, whatever.

I can't say I've ever felt at excessive risk cycling. The vast majority of the accidents I've been made aware of seem to be caused by either a lack of understanding/knowledge of how large motorised vehicles operate, or just not... thinking. Just don't pass an HGV until there's a large gap. If it's stationary get off and walk past it on the footpath. Job done.

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