Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Accident- whose fault was it?

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

ekos
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 16 Feb 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:48 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Accident- whose fault was it? Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I had an accident on my motorbike in the UK three days ago. Could you please assess objectively whose fault it was?

I am attaching a short video from that unfortunate journey and a picture of the spot where the accident happened.

Thank you for your response,

Best wishes, ekos
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:55 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

put up a google maps link of said round about ..
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ekos
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 16 Feb 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:04 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Accident - whose fault was it ? Reply with quote

thank you,

the link is here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Uxbridge+Rd,+Stanmore/@51.6134719,-0.3315575,76m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4876146690bd1bb9:0xc2a1edcb54809eac!8m2!3d51.6152398!4d-0.3227043
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

UncleFester
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Jun 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:05 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car drivers 'fault' but as ever, you come off worst.

Shoulder checks - would have helped you. Followed by opening throttle or not getting along side fuckwit idiot car driver in the first place. He probably didn't see you approaching because you came from a direction he wasn't expecting.

TL:DR Vulnerable = vulnerable.
____________________
Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

drzsta
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:09 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of you were in the wrong lane IMO.


If your going straight over 2nd exit, stay in left liable unless road marking say otherwise.
If exiting on third exit then stay right.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hawkeye1250FA
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:19 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he did see you and didnt like you "pushing in" Rolling Eyes

So just figured he would continue anyway and force you to stop and pull in behind him..

Which you didnt do because no shoulder check.

His fault completely, but you need to be aware that dickheads like that will try to kill you.

I also couldn't see your indicator on. That wouldnt have helped obviously but use your indicators!!! Smile
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Hawkeye1250FA
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:37 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, just realised you were trying to go straight on!

You also carry some blame then as your intentions were blatantly not clear.

You will probably get the actual claim 100% in your favour, but from a real life perspective you were in the wrong lane for other road users to correctly know you were going straight on.

Most would assume you were going right and had simply forgot your indicator imo.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

pompousporcup...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Apr 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:04 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was at fault. Score 1 for helmet cam.
Looks like driver felt many butthurts at being filtered past... like the fucking c*ckwomble he is. Even IF you were turning right, he should not have been trying to get past you on the left.

The only, 'slight', thing i would have done differently is hold my lane position better. IE stay in the centre of the inside lane on the roundabout thereby not giving the small c*cked tw@t any opportunity to pull the d1ck move that he did.

Going straight on from the right hand lane on a motorcycle, especially given you are filtering past slower moving traffic, is not unheard of. Your lane position where it was would tell drivers you mean to go right and without indication they would not know otherwise
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

davethekwak
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:12 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you haven't sent that clip in to the insurance company then i wouldn't.
Car driver had no idea where you were going until YOU rode in to him, he did not turn in to you. You also had room to continue around the roundabout had you even noticed the car right next to you with it's right indicator flashing.
This could have very easily been avoided had you ridden with some sense.
Upshot will probably be driver fault but I think it's clear who really caused that accident.
Filtering over hashed lines whilst approaching a bollard is also not a great idea. Your options could have run out very quickly forcing you to brake sharply and less than ideal surface.
Sorry to sound harsh but you really need to be more aware of your actions on other road users and their possible actions on you.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:19 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mp4 wouldn't play on my Windows 7 machines, so I've uploaded it as an unlisted YouTube video.

First, don't overtake on the zig-zag lines on the approach to a zebra crossing (TSRGD 2016 S37). Tut Tut That's probably what got you knocked off by Deputy Dope there doing a rage-overtake.

He was clearly trying to overtake on the roundabout, on your left, while turning right and assuming that you were too. I'd be confident that will go in your favour unless you say or do some silly. Like waiting 3 days to ask for advice.

How well this turns out for you will depend on what you've said to the various insurers involved and to any witnesses, including police.

First, I'd edit out the first 13 seconds of that video and only show the part directly leading up to the roundabout, after your overtake. If the car driver wants to bring that up, let him. Then (eventually) ask what relevance that had to his subsequent actions. Is he suggesting that you deserved to be knocked off?

Don't say anything to anyone now except to assert robustly that you are not at fault in any way. 10% of blame is still an "at fault" claim, you want it to go 100% your way.

If you have contact details for any friendly witnesses, contact them now, thank them for stopping at the scene and stress how important it is that they respond to the insurers.

If you have hostile witnesses, I'd suggest showing them that video (from 13 seconds onwards) to show them how it happened from your point of view, and see if they want to change their story.

Do not show that video to the other driver or to his insurer until he has finished telling all his lies and perhaps even inventing a few fictitious passengers.

Then and only then should you show that he is lying. Hold on to it for as long as you like, there's no rush to get a quick resolution if blame is contested.

Oh, and +1 to most of the above: in reality, your actions contributed to that collision. You provoked the situation without being ready to control it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike


Last edited by Rogerborg on 12:23 - 16 Feb 2017; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hawkeye1250FA
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:22 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from the insurance claim... And assuming you ride this route regularly.

In future I would recommend here as being where you should have "tucked in" to the queue for the roundabout - rather than going all the way to the front.

You only lose a second or two and it gives all traffic around you a definite clear signal that you are in that lane and there is a much smaller chance of confusion.

I hope the bike is ok! Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

natefz6
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:28 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I would be wary about sending that one off to the insurers. Riding over hashed lines and overtaking on zig-zags for a ped crossing is not a good start.

Saying that the manoeuvre by the driver looks like it was a deliberate act to try to cut you off to inconvenience you the same way you inconvenienced him by pulling in at the last minute and the braking in front of him.

You do have the positive that he can't say smidsy as you pulled right in front of him.
____________________
"no I didn't steal it that's just the way I ride"
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

J4mes
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:36 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the roundabout has no Lane markings on its approach then it's hard to say if anyone was in the wrong Lane. Poorly positioned perhaps but for me that roundabout has one lane entering it.

You've tickled your way up the inside and hit someone who was turning right and indicating that they were doing so. I think.

I'm going to assume that he assumed by your position that you were also turning right and expected you to go round with him.

I can't see any good coming from sharing that video with insurance, police or courts.

Also do you have the rest of it? The resultant slanging match or pavement brawl?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:41 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it does get into "yeahbut, you shouldn't ought to have...", then:

Highway Code 187

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to

motorcyclists
cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout

Car driver was not a cyclist or horse rider, although he did rather act like one.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

J4mes
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:44 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interested in the fact you mention lanes again.

What lanes? What road markings show that the roundabout has a left or right hand lane?

Does there need to be by law? Or does width dictate how many "lanes" there are?

Genuine question.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:48 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

the car driver was signaling to turn right ... he was not in the appropriate road position to do so .. hence his cutting in front of you..

also he under took on a round about as you had entered the round about together .. clearly tryin to get in front because he knew you was goin straight ahead as you did not signal..

well that's what I would put in my third party form..

you need to edit the zig zag overtake bit out..
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Fizzoid
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:50 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
I've uploaded it as an unlisted YouTube video.


First, I'd edit out the first 13 seconds of that video and only show the part directly leading up to the roundabout,


Remember, Roger has the first 13 seconds, which may incriminate you. So, any compo claim you may receive, Roger takes a 30% cut
____________________
Rogerborg wrote: It'd certainly make it easier to ego-find my own posts on pages, given the number of fags (gay like traps) who insist on putting my name in their .sig
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

davethekwak
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:54 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

J4mes wrote:

Does there need to be by law? Or does width dictate how many "lanes" there are?
.

Markings required to indicate more than a single lane if being totally dogmatic about it. However, the road opens up sufficiently to allow two vehicles to be adjacent to each other and it looks as though there would be sufficient width on the roundabout to acomodate this but if an accident occurs then it is likely to be classed as a single lane.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:17 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.) why are you overtaking on the zig-zag lines?
2.) why aren't alarm bells ringing as you enter the roundabout parallel to a car? You KNOW car drivers cut corners, don't stay in their lane and are a law unto themselves? Why the F*ck didn't you wait?

Technically it's probably 60% the car drivers fault, but to some extent you rode like a knob. As soon as the zig zag lines appear you should be nudging into the queue to stay behind cars, not enter the roundabout parallel to them. You basically sat in that dudes blind spot, and yet you were surprised he knocked you off?
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

arry
Super Spammer



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:19 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does look like a classic case of man trying to prove to other man he has the biggest spuds Laughing

If you'd have hung back when the car pulls half a car length on you at the start of the roundabout approach, it'd have cost you a couple of seconds at best and you'd have been on your way.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

davethekwak
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:22 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
You basically sat in that dudes blind spot, and yet you were surprised he knocked you off?

If you watch the vid very carefully you will see the rider straighten up and ride in to the car. The car didn't change his line.
____________________
ZX6R G2 (1999) & ZX6R F2 (1996). I like ZX6!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

owl
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:23 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

drzsta wrote:
Both of you were in the wrong lane IMO.


If your going straight over 2nd exit, stay in left liable unless road marking say otherwise.
If exiting on third exit then stay right.


<--- this, terrible positioning, poor obs
____________________
Observation is the greatest source of wisdom.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ScaredyCat
World Chat Champion



Joined: 19 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:31 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

natefz6 wrote:
Yeah I would be wary about sending that one off to the insurers. Riding over hashed lines


There's nothing wrong with riding over broken hashed lines at all.

J4mes wrote:

You've tickled your way up the inside and hit someone who was turning right and indicating that they were doing so. I think.


Watching that video I believe it was a deliberate move because he didn't like you 'pushing in' - although I expect the driver thought you'd go round the roundabout rather than crunch..

davethekwak wrote:

If you watch the vid very carefully you will see the rider straighten up and ride in to the car. The car didn't change his line.


You need your eyes testing, cars going straight don't turn their wheels to go round a corner.
____________________
Honda CBF125 ➝ NC700X
Honda CBF125 ↳ Speed Triple


Last edited by ScaredyCat on 13:34 - 16 Feb 2017; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

BrownTrousers
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:31 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Objectively most people would say you were in the wrong lane on the roundabout (inside lane, but going straight over, and not indicating), which contributed to the collision.

However, certainly he was even more in the wrong lane (outside lane, turning right, although he was at least indicating).

He should have (probably did) clearly seen you there as he approached the roundabout and been more careful, and you should have done a shoulder check, when indicating, before looking to move out of your lane.

Ultimately as already said it doesn't matter if the driver or rider was more wrong, the rider will always get more squished, so you should learn from these mistakes.

Good luck with the claim.
____________________
Bikers make great organ donors - add your name to the register
Ducati Multistrada 950 | Triumph Tiger 800 XR | Honda CBR500R | Yamaha YBR 125 Custom
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 7 years, 42 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.19 Sec - Server Load: 0.28 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 137.47 Kb