"I am an imposter"

[Sun Wukong]

Just found out about something interesting, which may be common knowledge but was new to me.

Apparently, it is very common to consider yourself a fraud, and like you cheated your way in to your job or studies. That you are not fit for the role, and that sooner or later people will find you out.

This could include professionalism, people skills or raw ability.

So I have a little poll.

Answer it according to your current position or study.

Extra reading for after you've done the poll
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Top cat
"Hard times lead to hard people. Hard people lead to good times. Good times lead to weak people. Weak people lead to hard times." Smegballs
"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86

[arry]

The majority of people in my industry bumble along gainfully employed despite showing no signs of learning anything for a good number of years. If anything, I've come to realise (and I can't say it in any way but to sound big-headed) that I'm near on invincible as there's but a handful of folk that can bring to a role that which I can.

As an underwriter I was outclassing people twice my age in a head office environment by the age of 25. Their 30 years experience to my 5. As a manager I was running successful teams in lines that others had failed by the time I was 30. As a director I've turned around 3 businesses from loss making not fit for purpose POS into slick, profitable units and all by the tender age of 35. There's not many people that can match me for my CV.

[pinkyfloyd]

I spent 20 years as a chef, during this time I have been head chef of many pub/restaurants, coffee shops, nursing homes and the like. I trained in hotels before that. I have even been head chef in a restaurant that was fully booked over the weekends 2 weeks in advance. I've been long term agency in the Hilton Hotel in Bath and I felt like a fraud in the catering trade.

I'm not a bad chef, but I am far from great, Many times I found myself asking myself "what am I doing here? Can I really do this?"

Now I am a motorcycle instructor and I can say with confidence, I'm bloody good at it. Not just good, bloody good, My pass rate sits somewhere around the 90% mark for mod 2, a shade lower for mod 1. This includes a number of clean.no fault, tests. I no longer feel like a fraud. I've dragged people from never sitting on a motorcycle through a CBT and DAS course in a week.

Seems I have found the job I was made for.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Rogerborg]

[RhynoCZ]

I voted neutral,

Studying = yes, you would be a fraud if you got to a university without whatever they require (for instance, prior education), effectively breaking the law.

Job/work = no, it wouldn't be a fraud if you can do what you're being paid for and there're no laws that would actually require a certain qualification for certain jobs (for instance, to be a GP/doctor, you've got to have a master's degree at a that area of expertise and some prior job experience...). I don't have any certain numbers, but I'd say about 80% of the jobs on the market today do not require any advanced education, nor job experience. It's just the employers wanting someone who's not completely thick.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[c_dug]

I somehow went from working in a gadget shop to helping run the maintenance department for one of the countries biggest museums (even on a global scale we're right up there). In the space of 4 years. With no real qualifications beyond gsce level.

I still ask myself how I pulled that one off.

I definitely feel out of my depth at times, but it's how you learn, no?

It probably says more about the state of the public sector that they couldn't afford somebody with the experience and qualifications the role probably deserves, but then I'm benefitting from it, so long live spending cuts
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[.....]

When you have the realisation that probably most of the people you work with are clueless and blagging it anyway, you stop thinking this way. Never has this been more apparent than in an office environment where I have wondered how some supposedly 'senior' people function in day to day activities such is their level of stupidity.

[SophR so good]

I'm in academic research, where this impostor syndrome is so common we have regular seminars on it (and I'm a molecular biologist, not psychologist!)
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You win again, gravity! - Zap Brannigan, BCF BBQ 2016

[Lord Percy]

When I got my scholarship to learn Chinese I felt like a constant fraud. A scholarship is meant to be for the best, but honestly I only got mine through pot luck. These were bloody good scholarships, with everything paid for a full academic year, including accommodation and spending money, but the two available places were advertised so late in the day that only 12 people applied - and I in fact came 3rd, and was only lucky to get a spot because another candidate dropped out. I had only ever applied on a whim, too. It was never a dream of mine to learn Chinese. All just happened by chance.

Once there, I had mates in my class, and in other classes, who'd paid for the course out of their own pockets and had to work alongside their studies. Felt like I was unfairly on easy street.

On the plus side it meant I did my very best to show that I deserved it and so was consistently top of the class. I'd have felt like a real dick if I just swanned around doing the bare minimum.

Other people on the same or better versions of the scholarship (some had 3 or 4 year versions right up to Bachelor or Masters degree level) were chronically awful and should have been given the boot. They were the biggest frauds.

I think it depends on the person. From a survival mindset it makes sense to just play the game and see how far you can get. I find I'm too aware of how others will see if I'm lying about myself. I think the common phrase is 'honest to a fault'.

I think the most annoying thing about the 'fraud' types is that it quickly becomes clear that they've bullshitted their way to whatever position it is, but once they're there it's often bloody hard to get rid of them because of various laws that are in place, even if everyone knows full well that that person isn't even remotely worth their salary.

Anyway, aside from the scholarship thing, I tend to undersell myself in most situations so I ticked the 'rarely' option.

[hellkat]

All it means is that more people have a serious lack of self confidence.
Can't say I've ever suffered from it.

But then ... I'd not apply for a job I didn't think I couldn't do/didn't know enough about to make a decent effort at it.

Do people really apply for jobs they know nothing about, and then blag their way through it? How do they get through the interviews? Surely the interviewers must know if they are bullshitting.
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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[hellkat]

[Lord Percy]

[DrSnoosnoo]

It's a strange one.

Throughout my PhD I was like, woah these guys are so much smarter than me, I don't know as much as them ...
But I was examined, by two academics, and they thought I was decent enough to just sort out some of my spelling and be given my Title.

Now in work I think the other way. I seem to think, get me in, give me a couple of weeks and I'll smash it - there's nothing I can't learn.
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I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R

[thx1138]

OP's post - That was how I first felt in my last job, supervisor in a citizens advice office. Left school with no qualifications, and most of the volunteers under me had law degrees, some were retired solicitors etc

[Tracey Suntan-King]

In the latter part of my working life I coached several senior executives of public and private companies. I saw this a lot in them.

Usually in men, women seem to be less affected.

My personal theory is that this has nothing to do with ability or real/perceived threats to achievements. I think it is a function of the amygdala, the primitive, instinctive part of the brain that houses our more animal instincts.

In nature, once a hunter has bagged his prey and can feed his family, he can't relax, the fight is not over. He must remain in a state of constant alertness because other predators may try to steal his catch. He must be prepared to defend and fight for his status if necessary.

So, the guy in the top job can't relax and say, "I've done it, I can relax." His amygdala are telling him that there is another predator lurking, waiting to steal his achievement. Even though his rational 21st century brain knows different, his poor little amygdala can't switch off.

However, I have no explanation for why women seem less affected.
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Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right

[stinkwheel]

A big dollop of arrogance is important in my profession (Vets) but I see the whole "fraud" thing in colleagues and it can cause crippling mental problems (or is the result of them?). I'm happy I got into and through my course and into my job on merit, I'm pleased to be lucky enough to have the faculties to have achieved that.

I don't have the fraud thing because if there is part of my job I'm not sure about, I just tell people straight out and offer to send them elsewhere or to someone who does. Oddly, this doesn't seem to put people off, quite the opposite in some cases.

Classic example is the job I just did. A fairly complex eye case with a non-healing corneal ulcer. I made it clear to the owner that I don't posess the specialist equipment or experience an opthalomologist does and I would rather referr it to one. They decided they didn't want to pay that kind of money so I've done it. There was a "thefuckamIdoing?" moment when I was scraping grid patterns into the surface of its eye with a needle but meh, all looks to have worked ok.

I am on occasion visitied by the feeling that I'm a serial underachiever. It's actually not a feeling, it's a fact. I breezed through uni on raw talent floated on a cloud of alcohol with a short period of meaningful study just before exams. BUT while I'm not close to living up to my potential, I'm also a lazy cunt.

I've accepted my inner laziness and have settled for a good work life balance.

As far as I'm concerned, I've won. Fuck progression and working any harder. If I want anything more from life it's more time off and getting better at my job wont give me that, quite the opposite.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Rogerborg]

Mmm, I went though a period of being the best I could be, then realised that it typically ends with Peter Principling yourself into a job that you can't do, or becoming the Go To Guy for every project until you're burned out.

Now I pull an Incredibles, finish a close 2nd, and leave at 4pm.

I don't want for much, although I wouldn't turn down access to horse tranquillisers.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[SophR so good]

[The Shaggy D.A.]

It's not so much I don't know what I'm doing, it's more that I'm tired. Working in IT, I'm tired of constantly moving targets. Just when I get the hang of something, the next big thing arrives and I either have to update/relearn something, or let the knowledge get filed under "I used to know how to do that".

I know I burned out in software development, I work in infrastructure now, and am plagued by fragile legacy systems with no documentation (or worse, incorrect documentation) that a only a handful of people know inside out.

There's things I know that I know, things I know that I don't know, but I estimate that I'm scratching the surface, because under all that there's a shitload of things I'm not even aware of their existence.

I get by with the fact there's never really any new problems, just a repeat of old ones (or damn close to it) that I've already encountered sometime in the last 35 years. I find myself saying "I don't know, but I know how to find out" an awful lot. Most of the time I don't know, but find out before I'm asked, so it looks like I do. I'd often give training courses where I was just one or two chapters in front of the class.

So, imposter? No. Lucky chancer? Yes
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Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[Feasty]

Shaggy DA, what you say rings a lot of bells!

I don't consider myself a fraud or cheat, but I am REALLY lazy! But only to the point that I don't push myself more than I need to.

I had an overly controlled/abusive upbringing from my dad, no friends/school trips ever allowed etc, etc. Won't bore you with the details... but when I finally left home to go to university, I sat back, finally free of constraints and thought 'This is the life!'. So spent 2 years doing as little as possible other than to keep me there and now got nothing to show for it. Racked up loans on pizza's, nights out and taxis...

Left uni and started working cleaning bogs in steel factories and serving in off licences. Eventually got myself together a bit more, got into IT and generally built up experience through 1st line - 2nd line - 3rd line and now into a support analyst. I now have a boss who is a bit of a control freak, likes to do everything himself. Leaves me with plenty of thumb twiddling, but then I'm not gaining any experience or qualifications to move on anymore. At the same time it's easy money.
I've had 2 interviews in the past year and come 2nd in both, I thought they were a stretch to get for me but it seems I can do it if I try - I just have to keep trying which I'm useless at.

If I'd had the get-up-and-go from the beginning I'd be far better placed now, more money, happier wife, thinner - but ho hum, we can only work with what we've got eh!
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Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).

[derillius24]

Interesting thread. Yes I do experience this, frequently.

Working in academic healthcare, I'm surrounded by distinguished academics and highly driven, career-focused junior staff about ages with me, give or take. I very often feel that they all know much more than I do, that they're working more furiously than I am and that I probably shouldn't be in this role - like there must be someone else who'd do it better than I can. This seems to be at odds with the feedback I get from my seniors regarding work I've done or am doing but I find it hard to shake off.

I do, however, often wonder how intimate the association between Imposter Syndrome and the Dunning-Kruger effect is.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge".
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CG125, CBF250, DRZ400-SM, Z750, Street Triple R, Tuono V4R

[CBFcarl]

I have this right now.

A few years ago, I worked for a Sheffield based ISP, and thought that I was technical and found out quite quickly that I wasn't. With help from colleagues and materials found in the training department, I got good at what I was doing.

After that, I went to out of hours server support, which sounds technical, but really wasn't. From there to BT Inbound sales (hated it but needed to pay the rent), to tech support for a satellite company. For 5 years, I was the man. Anything technical within TV, Talk, Broadband or Fibre (and later on, other, newer services) was covered by me, and I was doing training, coaching and support. There wasn't any room for manoeuvre, so I was at a dead end. Loved the job and the people, but couldn't stay doing the same thing over and over again.

July 2016, I started a new job in a Technical role. 1st line support, and it was eye opening. I quickly realised that my previous "technical" role wasn't technical at all in comparison. I had beaten three other people for the role that I knew from the ISP days. I am now running through learning materials every day (and at the weekends at home) because I feel that I spawned my way into this job, and the relative safety of my old role is gone.

tl;dr - me too.
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thx1138 wrote: Well if you had a car, I'd bet it would smell like urine had had drunken sex with vomit and made a poo baby.
Polarbear wrote: They are all old now. Probably had more abuse that a Rotherham schoolgirl.
Hellkat wrote: I want to know if Nigella smells of garlic, or just minge.

[Jayy]

I believe I'm worth a premium price and charge accordingly per hour. I didn't always think like this though, it took many years of thinking I wasn't good enough to charge more for my time.

As I began taking on more corporate clients and charging more and more, I realise that my time is valuable and in demand, so I can charge a premium and get it.

These days I know what I want and how to handle projects and clients and the correct price to charge them.

Now I have the view that I'm good at what I do and if I wasn't all these clients wouldn't flock to me on referral and recommendation and pay the fees I command these days, so it kind of backs it all up.

Like I say though, it did take many a year to get to this position and I did used to think, "What am I doing quoting a client of this calibre this amount of money?" probably about 3 years ago but not at all these days.

I voted strongly disagree

[Tigerlea]

[Andy_Pagin]