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Employment: Going from public to private sector (Finance)

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Az
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 21 Feb 2017    Post subject: Employment: Going from public to private sector (Finance) Reply with quote

I currently work in the public sector (for a non-departmental government body).

I didn't apply for jobs specifically in the public sector, just ends up that I got offered one here when I was looking for apprenticeships after sixth form (when I was 18 going on 19). At the time (and they still do) my employer offered some cool little benefits; healthcare package (£200 towards glasses, £300 towards dental care, etc etc), flexible working hours and at the time a good wage for an Apprentice (just shy of a grand month as an Apprentice).

Fast forward almost 3 years, i'm no longer an apprentice. I'm now an Assistant Accountant/Finance Officer with a relatively stressful job and I want to move jobs.

So, why do I want to move jobs?

For two reasons; pay and progression.

The benefits I receive at work I can easily live without, as I rarely use them anyway.

Where I currently work it's hard to progress as not many people leave their roles, consequently not many roles become available to progress into. As the benefits (especially flexible working hours and the general laid back approach here being a non-profit organisation) means the majority of people I work along side have worked here for a lengthy period of time with no intention of leaving soon (e.g. my manager's been here 9 years and my co-worker's 7 & 5 years respectively).

The pay is the bottom end of the spectrum being public sector. The jobs recently became stressful with members of staff leaving the team and not being replaced. Work load has increased and naturally so has the level of stress. Now, to be clear I can live with the extra stress and work load (I have done for the last year with no issues).

Speaking to others i've always been told that the private sector is more stressful (which I doubt it will be now) and you get less benefits (benefits I don't use anyway)...

Both private and public sector will pay for my development in education (ACCA) to become a qualified chartered accountant, as this is common practice among both private and public with my job role. So their equally matched there.

So it begs the question why don't I go for a higher paid private sector role, it'd seem dumb not to?

What i'm expecting from a private sector role is a stressful, high work load and pressured working environment, but as a result a better opportunity to progress my career more quickly.

Have I failed to consider anything here? I'd rather not apply and obtain a job in the private sector to then come across something I didn't anticipate.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 21 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: Employment: Going from public to private sector (Finance Reply with quote

Az wrote:
Have I failed to consider anything here? I'd rather not apply and obtain a job in the private sector to then come across something I didn't anticipate.



My thoughts in no particular order (FYI I was an accountant sort of still am sort of).

Arrow I'd stay where you are based on 铁饭碗 ~ Iron rice bowl. Public sectorists are the most secure of jobs. Way back they'd only pay for the public sector accountancy qualification CIPFA. All of my peers who went into public sector (while I went private) are generally still in the same jobs having climbed a few pay scales.

Arrow I'd add a caveat though I did not have the best launch pad to my accountancy career. DOG got a much better career start working in the big 4/5 and getting experience in all sorts of areas of accountancy. Not all accountants manage this and the vast majority are much smaller players. I got into the big 10 though.

Arrow While you see accountants with flash cars and nice houses. It's a very middle salary job based on hierarchies most people get stuck in the middle as associates around the £22-30K mark and rarely go beyond this. Sort of like a blue collar white collar job if that makes any sense.

Arrow You see while the private sector can potentially pay more many bosses promise a whole lot but tend to under deliver on those promises. The reaming happens most while bosses need to sign off your competences. They hold competences sign off hostage and make you work tons more hours. If you moan the competences don't get signed off.

Arrow Or worst case like company H I worked for people were intentionally pigeon holed so they couldn't get their competences.

Arrow The above is all practice based accountancy though. Industry is different.

Arrow There are numerous popular ways out of the middling trap. Set up your own company once you get your competences signed off (this is the slog). Or gun for partner. Or jump companies.


In a nutshell while the rewards are potentially greater, the risks are a fair bit bigger.



A final thing I'd note. There is a ratchet process going on in accountancy much like in other sectors.


What this means is that the point where individuals could add value to jobs and make money off them kept rising.


Way back in the late 90s and early 00s.

You'd have partner + secretary he was banging.
Seniors
Semi seniors
PQs ~ part qualified.
Juniors they took Fridays off to do their AATs at college.

Low value jobs were given to the juniors. High value jobs went to seniors or partners. By the mid 00s the juniors and PQs were reduced and the jobs scanned and outsourced to Asia. Add in software and the only ones who could add value were the Partners and seniors. The bottom tiers had been removed and outsourced.

Hell my old firm it's just partners + secretary. Secretary (from Poland) scans in the documents. She then uploads them to a company in Pakistan. It comes back a few days later for about $3 an hour. Partner looks through it signs it off and goes to a meeting with a client.

YMMV of course.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 21 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't one of the appeals of the public sector the lucrative pension?

That's how it used to be, anyway.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 21 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm I wrote more than I intended.

TL:DR

If you are super focused, ruthless backstabbing psycho/sociopath (a combination or all of those attributes)

You will do well in finance.

If you're none of those things you'll probably end up as one of the middling people.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 21 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: Employment: Going from public to private sector (Finance Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

Arrow I'd stay where you are based on 铁饭碗 ~ Iron rice bowl. Public sectorists are the most secure of jobs. Way back they'd only pay for the public sector accountancy qualification CIPFA. All of my peers who went into public sector (while I went private) are generally still in the same jobs having climbed a few pay scales.


Public sector jobs are far the most secure, I too have recently left for the private sector, and after only 1 month, I would never go back. I used to work in the private sector before working in the public sector. Whilst my area is IT & not finance, I would say equally applicable...

Let's not forget, even more public sector cuts are on their way

Itchy wrote:

Arrow You see while the private sector can potentially pay more many bosses promise a whole lot but tend to under deliver on those promises. The reaming happens most while bosses need to sign off your competences. They hold competences sign off hostage and make you work tons more hours. If you moan the competences don't get signed off.


Again, in my new employment, everything is so much more relaxed, and there's more investment staff, equipment & facilities

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:

Wasn't one of the appeals of the public sector the lucrative pension?


Again, in recent years, that's largely a phallacy peddled by the government, public sector pensions are far from what they are cracked up to be, and again, with my new private sector employment, comes new and better value pension, plus private health care, and other savings via partnerships.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 00:55 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The advantage of the public sector is that it's big. You only seem to be concentrating on your organisation and its lack of opportunities, while you should be looking on civil service jobs to see what is available to apply for in other places.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 02:32 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did it 20 years ago - Local Government to self employed. The main difference you'll find is that instead of having a single employer for years, you will most likely work for a variety of firms as and when they need you, plus maintain your own Limited Company as well. You will have to accept that you won't know when you will be paid from month to month - some months will be excellent and some you won't receive any income at all. You will get used to this after a decade or so...

Your Client-base will determine how many days a month you'll need to work, so don't expect to be able to control how much you work - that is unless you are in a position to turn work down.

You need to bear in mind that putting into a private pension won't be as rewarding as the scheme you are in now, so you should make other provision if you can afford it.

Bike related - In the past I've bought bikes when flush and sold them again to pay the taxman.

Could I work for a Local Authority again? No chance unless I'm subbing and the rates are right. Once you've been self-employed for a while you change your attitude to taking orders from people you don't respect....

Don't know if that helps!
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
Wasn't one of the appeals of the public sector the lucrative pension?

That's how it used to be, anyway.


It's a myth, perpetuated for political purposes!
The only way of getting a decent public sector pension is to become a senior civil servant or to put in the maximum years, 40 or 50, it's always been the case.
Unless things have changed in the last 2 or 3 years the average public sector pension is £5k p.a.

What I noticed when I went from public to private sector was:

More chance of getting sacked, (wasn't a problem for me, but saw a few get their marching orders).

You'll probably be expected to do unpaid overtime.

Less chance of a manager constantly looking over your shoulder, telling you how to do your job.

You'll be rewarded for doing a good job, or going the extra mile.

You get to keep all the gifts, (bribes), that contractors like to hand over at Xmas!

Your work load will be the same, probably less stressful but a bit more interesting.

If you're good at what you do, you've more chance of advancement!
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked in the public sector for a year. I was bored, I didn't do much work, and it was bland as hell. I didn't get paid very well.

Then I went to the private sector, now I get paid a fair amount for my age, and my job is far more interesting. I get decent benefits, and I have a career path where I can progress money wise. My industry is currently being transformed by new technology which is a little frustrating for me sometimes, but I'm completely convinced that I'm far better off in the private sector.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:

More chance of getting sacked, (wasn't a problem for me, but saw a few get their marching orders).

You'll probably be expected to do unpaid overtime.

Less chance of a manager constantly looking over your shoulder, telling you how to do your job.

You'll be rewarded for doing a good job, or going the extra mile.

You get to keep all the gifts, (bribes), that contractors like to hand over at Xmas!

Your work load will be the same, probably less stressful but a bit more interesting.

If you're good at what you do, you've more chance of advancement!
Pretty much my experience when I made the leap into the real world in 1994. I think OP is suffering from fear of the unknown more than anything else.
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Az
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: Employment: Going from public to private sector (Finance Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:


My thoughts in no particular order (FYI I was an accountant sort of still am sort of).

Arrow I'd stay where you are based on 铁饭碗 ~ Iron rice bowl. Public sectorists are the most secure of jobs. Way back they'd only pay for the public sector accountancy qualification CIPFA. All of my peers who went into public sector (while I went private) are generally still in the same jobs having climbed a few pay scales.


I couldn't comment on the truth of this statement as I don't know how safe a job is in the private sector, but from what i've seen jobs in the public sector aren't as safe as you may think. We recently had a number of staff made redundant and there's rumors that their will be a repeat in 2018.

Itchy wrote:


Arrow While you see accountants with flash cars and nice houses. It's a very middle salary job based on hierarchies most people get stuck in the middle as associates around the £22-30K mark and rarely go beyond this. Sort of like a blue collar white collar job if that makes any sense.


I think this only true if you lack the motivation to progress. I'm extremely ambitious and will not cap myself to a sub £30k wage (albeit not any time soon, I need to secure my ACCA first). I'm far too ambitious to get stuck in the middle of the hierachy (hence one of the reasons being progression as to why i'm considering the switch to private sector). The long term plan is to move out of the country to the UAE. My sister has done the same as a corporate lawyer and it's worked out extremely well for her, i'm hoping it'l work out equally as well for me.
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Az
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
Wasn't one of the appeals of the public sector the lucrative pension?

That's how it used to be, anyway.


I don't believe it's as good as it once was, at least that's what i've been told.

That's not a concern of mine, because either way i'll be leaving the current pension scheme behind. I won't be here for ever.
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Az
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like i'll be applying for private sector jobs soon! From what you've all said it's what i'm expecting and it's what I want.

Higher work load or/and more interesting work with a higher possibility of job loss in exchange for a higher wage, good work actually being recognised and better progression opportunities.
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Az
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kind of related to the original post - which apps and websites do people recommend for job searching?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Re: Employment: Going from public to private sector (Finance Reply with quote

Az wrote:
I think this only true if you lack the motivation to progress.



As I said YMMV ~ Your mileage may vary considerably. I'm not trying to discourage you or anything just to make sure you go in with your eyes open. If you choose to do this route I hope you do well.

Anyway...

The kicker is you need your ACCA first.

In fact I think you're aiming too low. ACCAs are actually pretty common and actually like degrees are devalued*. It's the fellowship FCCA you want along with various other qualifications like the ATII um it's CTA now I think along with some others. It's quite a slog to do all the exams** and get your competences signed off.

*the ACCA in the mid 00s sought to become the biggest accountancy body by membership. So they did a couple of things they reduced the pass mark to 50% AND dropped the requirement to do all 3 of the final exams in one sitting. That was one hell of a day I recall. Many of those ACCAs are in the developing world. So it became a bit like undergraduate degrees... more people had them so you need more to differentiate yourself.


**the exams are not easy with pass rates typically around the 20-45% mark. Heh in my day it was 13% pass rate.


In regards to ambition this is good.

Just be aware that things in life can change, priorities change especially considering the time scale. You're looking at a minimum of 36 months for your competences sign off and even more time if you are starting from F1/2 or 3 (I began at the old level 3). Add in the FCCA or another specialism and you're looking at another 50-60 months on top of the 36. As said before it can be quite a slog.

I was once the super ambitious starry eyed accountant. I found the work -> study ->sleep work cycle wore me down considerably.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The absolute main A1 wonderful fantastic top level reason for going from the public to the private sector is:

Shirkers. You know the types, the ones who sit around moaning all day and don't do any work. Literally don't do anything. You get them in EVERY public sector job, and they destroy morale, never contribute anything positive and never back up their colleagues in any way. You know the type, the "I'll take the time off if you talk to me at lunch", the "It's not my job mate", the "Why are you doing it THAT way?" and the "I'm just off out for 5 minutes" ... 3 hours later. And my very favourite, the Union rep.

You don't get any of that in the private sector, certainly not to that level anyway.
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Last edited by MarJay on 23:56 - 23 Feb 2017; edited 2 times in total
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 02:17 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
The absolute main A1 wonderful fantastic top level reason for going from the private to the public sector is:

Shirkers. You know the types, the ones who sit around moaning all day and don't do any work. Literally don't do anything. You get them in EVERY private sector job, and they destroy morale, never contribute anything positive and never back up their colleagues in any way. You know the type, the "I'll take the time off if you talk to me at lunch", the "It's not my job mate", the "Why are you doing it THAT way?" and the "I'm just off out for 5 minutes" ... 3 hours later. And my very favourite, the Union rep.

You don't get any of that in the private sector, certainly not to that level anyway.


Oi MarJay, there's a fundamental error/gaff in that post! Mr. Green
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
MarJay wrote:
The absolute main A1 wonderful fantastic top level reason for going from the private to the public sector is:

Shirkers. You know the types, the ones who sit around moaning all day and don't do any work. Literally don't do anything. You get them in EVERY private sector job, and they destroy morale, never contribute anything positive and never back up their colleagues in any way. You know the type, the "I'll take the time off if you talk to me at lunch", the "It's not my job mate", the "Why are you doing it THAT way?" and the "I'm just off out for 5 minutes" ... 3 hours later. And my very favourite, the Union rep.

You don't get any of that in the private sector, certainly not to that level anyway.

Oi MarJay, there's a fundamental error/gaff in that post! Mr. Green


Hey it was late when I posted that... You get my meaning! In the private sector there is definitely a better teamwork culture, a better support from colleagues and even management with a decent manager. I've fixed it now anyway.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Suntan Sid wrote:

Oi MarJay, there's a fundamental error/gaff in that post! Mr. Green


Hey it was late when I posted that... You get my meaning! In the private sector there is definitely a better teamwork culture, a better support from colleagues and even management with a decent manager. I've fixed it now anyway.


Are you sure?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:


Are you sure?


100% yes. If you've not found this then you're working for the wrong private sector company.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Shirkers. You know the types, the ones who sit around moaning all day and don't do any work. Literally don't do anything. You get them in EVERY private sector job


...
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D O G
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get out of the public sector ASAP if you want to work in the private sector in the future, which you have indicated is the plan with UAE jobs. Private sector experience will always be more attractive to another private sector employer when you look for that next move, and the next one, and the next one...

LinkedIN is a good place to start job hunting. If you don't already have one, make a profile, get bombarded by connection requests from agents, watch as they spam jobs constantly.

Connect to local large corporates, they often have in house recruitment teams who scour LinkedIN for fresh meat. It works out cheaper than paying agents' fees.

Or go trad, do a cv, look at recruitment agents' websites, apply for jobs which look interesting. That will get you on their radar, go in, meet them etc. etc. If you are non moronic then they should put opportunities in front of you.

Key is getting the ACCA/CIMA qualification, once you have that you open up the next level of opportunities either within the same organisation or another.

I'd suggest you do not need anything more than that to get to the top, if that's what you want, if you are good enough to get to the top you will piss your exams, and progress quickly within an organisation.

Can't see you mentioning if you have any finance qualification? 25 is an excellent age to achieve one's qualification, you might be able to make that Wink
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 23:31 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby works in finance, and currently doing one of his quals. Worth asking him?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 23 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorted now... finally... sorry.... Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 24 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Green
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