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Decent 125cc automatic motorbike

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Maenam
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Decent 125cc automatic motorbike Reply with quote

Hello, I don't know much about motorbikes and I would like to get a 125cc automatic bike (not a scooter), in the UK. I was told there are many options but I'm having a hard time finding examples online.

Could someone please tell me what are some decent options for a 125cc automatic motorbike in 2017?

Thanks a lot!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only option, and it isn't really a motorbike, I can think of is the Gilera DNA

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.D_W2nwNanm9R4n_MNffVGQEsDh&w=268&h=199&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7

Rare as rockinghorse poo and are really a scooter dressed up to look like a motorcycle.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Re: Decent 125cc automatic motorbike Reply with quote

^^^
/thread.

Maenam wrote:
I was told there are many options

Is this from Your Mate Who Knows About Bikes?

Your choices are a ragged out Gilera that "just needs a bit of TLC"[*], a scooter or a geared 125.


[*] Workshop posts titled "URGANT HALP NEDEED!!!!" are almost always about Gileras.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it have to be automatic? Gears aren't difficult to get the hang of.
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Maenam
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Andy_Pagin"]Does it have to be automatic? Gears aren't difficult to get the hang of.[/quote]

Automatic or a semi-automatic, I guess.
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Re: Decent 125cc automatic motorbike Reply with quote

Maenam wrote:
I was told there are many options


You were lied to.

Kymco K-Pipe was clutchless manual, but as far as I am aware they are no longer available new.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maenam wrote:
Automatic or a semi-automatic, I guess.

OK, you're stating a solution.

But what's the problem?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Re: Decent 125cc automatic motorbike Reply with quote

Evil Hans wrote:
Maenam wrote:
I was told there are many options


You were lied to.

Kymco K-Pipe was clutchless manual, but as far as I am aware they are no longer available new.


Oh yes, forgot about the K-Pipe. Probably because it was infinitely forgettable Cool

How about a Honda Cub? Thumbs Up

https://catalog-moto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/3/the-honda-cub-is-50-plus-years-old-team-bhp_2.jpg
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Maenam
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PostPosted: 16:34 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rogerborg"][quote="Maenam"]Automatic or a semi-automatic, I guess.[/quote]
OK, you're stating a solution.

But what's the problem?[/quote]

There's no real problem, I just like the simplicity and ease of use of automatic. I just finished my CBT on a 125cc manual and it's a hassle, I don't like it. I want to get the proper license so that I can take a passenger so I wanted to get something to practice on for the tests. An automatic 125 would have been ideal, but sadly from the replies here it looks like it's not really a thing :-/
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maenam wrote:
There's no real problem, I just like the simplicity and ease of use of automatic. I just finished my CBT on a 125cc manual and it's a hassle, I don't like it. I want to get the proper license so that I can take a passenger so I wanted to get something to practice on for the tests. An automatic 125 would have been ideal, but sadly from the replies here it looks like it's not really a thing :-/


Bear in mind that if you pass on an automatic, your licence is only good for an automatic. Seems like a waste of time (in my opinion).
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bigdom86
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: re Reply with quote

there was a yamaha which was an auto 125 but i forget the name
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

125s need a lot of gear changing. If you're 19+ I'd urge you to get yourself an A2 or A (geared) licence.

If you're 17/18 and stuck on a 125, then fair enough, an auto will make good use of the available engine power. But it's scooter body or nothing (or get very lucky), I'm afraid.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a Chinese 125cc bike that was fully auto

Sold about three in the UK so good luck finding a working one
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it have to be 125?

You could buy a Honda CB400A Laughing Laughing

Quote:
CB400A Hawk Hondamatic

The CB400A has a two-speed semi-automatic transmission.It has a torque converter and two forward gears (high and low) that have to be manually selected by the rider. There is a gear position indicator in lieu of a tachometer in the instrument binnacle. A parking brake replaced the clutch lever. This model has 28mm Keihin carburettors which lower the peak power in exchange for low-down response.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB400T#CB400A_Hawk_Hondamatic

Though someone is probably selling one with the tags, classic, rare, or barn find Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 17 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx1138 wrote:
Does it have to be 125?

It does until he get a licence.

Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 01:02 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honda CB400A; Honda CB750 Hondamatic; Moto Guzzi Convert; Husquvana 430 Torque Converter.. There was also a Rokon 380, based on a Polars snow-moble, that was also sold as a Can-Am and possibly a bombardier in the US, which is probably the more genuine 'automatic motorcycle transmission'. But, OTMH that is pretty much IT for auto-'bikes' apart from the Gilera DNS which is a non-step-thru scooter, bit like the Lanbretta with a petrol tank between the seat and handle-bars.
Most listed are also quirks of the 70's, stimulated by the suggestion the US market wanted them, that never really took off, and demo'd the 'problems' with them, which is significantly that most aren't geuine automatics.

There are probably other bikes that might claim to be auto or semi auto, and some consensus or contention with DVLA as to whether they are or not, that could include the Duel Clutch 'switch change' gearboxes used o some more modern Honda's.

Baically, the early twist and go mopeds, didn't have an 'automatic transmission'. They ran a fixed reduction ratio between crank and driven wheel, and a 'centrifugal' (automatic) clutch, engaged when weights thrown out by centrifugal force of crank speed made shoes take up drive, or partial drive in slip.

The 'clutchless' semi-auto or crunch box Honda Cub step through, added a conventonal gearbox to this; so you could 'pre-select' a gear and ride it as a twist and go, or you 'might' roll off the throttle to disengage the cetrifugal clutch and 'crunch-change' gears on the move.

It has gears, they are user selectable, DVLA no longer accept these as an 'Auto'... whch also chalenges suggested status of most alleged auto's.

The Boss Hoss! (just remembered aother one!) Is a Cheverolet Car engine with a wheel bolted at ether end! Wth a hge, low revg oster torque America V8 engine, it does without a geared transmission, lke a moped, but uses a car type Torque converter, instead of a centrifugal clutch.

In the 'slip' rage between the fluid being churned by the engine, and locking out, giving direct drive between input paddle and drum, vanes inside the drum, direct fluid tipped off the paddle onto cups in the drum, to 'recoup' energy losses, and convert torque to power, providing a 'sort' of effective gear reduction in slip.

Boss Hoss uses this in conjuncton with a tall final drive to save having a gearbox; the Husky, the Convert, and the Hondamatics, still had a gearbox, and ISTR on all of them it was a spe h/lo range two speed that could be used like a cub-moped either as pre-select or a 'crash-box' on the move, and again, would probably make those arly 'automatics' manual bikes in the opinion of DVLA.

Leaves the Rokon/Polaris... which used a curouse type of rubber band transmission, that had been poneerd in the 1960's and '70's by a Dutch chap ad used on cars in the DAF variomatic car, i jont veture wth Polars in USA/Canada.

This is essentially the common 'variator' transmission used on larger scooters. It wasn' anything particularly new n the 1960's, and a filly echanical verion was offeed on the British Zenith coffee-grinder motorcycle in the 1920's when belt drive bikes were still more popular than than drive ones.

Basic priciple was that drive was transmitted between engine and wheel by a V-Belt, ad two pulleys. By splitting the pulleys and adjusting the width of the gap between the halves with a cam and spring, the V-Belt would rise or fall o a different effective diameter, and give a slightly different drive ratio.

It wasn't actually a novelty on the coffee grinder Zenith, but that had a cleaver mehanical mehansm to allow the pulleys to be adjusted on the move, and maintain belt tension.

This was the refinement of the variamatic, making that 'automatic', and varying the pulley ratio on the move, depending on engine load, and getting sufficient ratio alteration to be useful, whlst t did it, whch could take a umber of sets of pulleys.

The modern scooter 'varator' is essetially a simplification of that system, using 'cage' pulleys to take more efficient flat rather than v-belts, ad makes do with a reletively limited range of ratio varability, from a scooter's small wheels reducig the amount of reduction needed, whilst low power ad low speed helps make the system practical and effive, but is a evolutio of systems developed mainly for plant application and things like snow-mobles.

These do have a variable ratio transmssion, and rato is automatically adjusted, hence they are full autmatic tansmssons..... BUT.... they are prett much exclusive to scooters, where the small wheels and wheel bolted rigidly to transmission case/engine it, that is entirely 'unsprung' and moving with the wheel, makes t more practicable

The electronic Duel clutch electric change systems used on some more odern hondas have more conventional geaed transmissions, but gear selecton is effected electrically, hence the rider may change with a button rather than a lever, OR a control coputer can take over fro the button to effect some 'program' automatic shift control... AFAIK as they are still rider shiftable, ot fully electronically controlled, they are deemed 'semi-auto' like a cub moped for licencing purposes ad require a manual licence.

So the bottom line is, there are VERY VERY few genuinely fully auto transmission motocycles, of any displacement, and almost none, really over 125cc.

Most that can be ridden on an auto-only licence are mopeds and scooters, and eve there, a lot don't have real automatic variable ratio transmission, just automatic clutch ad direct drive; but the market and the mechanics are more conducive to them.

HOWEVER..... its no big deal. Learners are rather prone to over use the gears to start with. It something to do, ad it seems important... it isn't.

On the big bikes, can pretty much start in 2nd, ad I could leave the damn thing in 2nd all day long, unless I was heading out of town on a faster 50+ limit road.. and even then, on 60 & 60' I probably dont 'need' use anythig taller than 3rd... and with a bit of judiciouse clutch abuse could probably even start fro a stand still in 3rd, provided I wasn't on too steep a hill or too heavly loaded....

On the 125, I dont have as much power, or as much flexability i its delivery, I do need to use the gears.... I could probably start fro stadig 2nd wth a bit of clutch abuse if I wanted, but once movng, and 10mph I can snck 2nd, ad rond the houses up to 30mph, that is the ONLY gear I really need... yup, little motor, on my 4-stroke 125 revig to as much as 14ooo rpm does sound a little, err.. raucouse.. but t dont explode!

And it does give me best chance to get at ad use the limited power the 125 has a well as the flexibly to change speed, on the throttle, alone, rather than sturr cogs... which is another common newb error, making themselves work, shifting up possibly all the way to top before 30mph, because it sounds better, it feels better, there's some notion, possibly from car drivig lessons that taller gears are better for economy, and... its something to do... makes you feel 'in control'... then of course coming up to a junction, you have to slow from 30mph to walkg pace... and things get a bit tense, wth a lot of gear change to make down the box or ignore and 'coast' n the brakes, and ntangle at the end, IF yu have chance havg had to stop, f not, i a panic before you try pulling away fro the give way, at walking pace!!! Hard to make changes smooth, in a hurry, had to make them at all in a hurry, and every one is an extra oportty for effupp... dont make unnecessary up-changes you no need make unnecsary down changes, you CAN leave it in a lowr gear ad do t on the throttle 'like' an ato, and more should, to make things easy and get the 'control' that a gearbox offers.

Don't get me wrong I do like automatic gearboxes.... in a car! My first car lessons umpety decades ago were Canada whee Auto was the only real option in an american car (And was driving a Volkswagen with a gearbox outside lessons to make life 'hard') And I have been driving Auto cars almost solely here in the UK since the millennium, when I had an epiphany going to work one day, sat yet another traffic jam wrestling with a heavy hot-hatch clutch, and decided fukit! For the few chances for more spirited driving UK offers, it wasn't worth the hassle... and I capitulated to the lowest common denominator, bought a sofa with wheels, and a nice hi-fi and had an extra half hours kip on my way to work, like all the other idiots!

On a bike? There' a lot more opportunity for rider involvement; you can exploit the light weight and manouverability to take gaps and filter through jams, you can keep it rolling a lot more, and on an open road, with bends, 'enjoy' using the gearbox from time to time to 'drive' through bends....

Meanwhile, bike is a way to escape the sofa on wheels;and enjoy riding. Enthusiasm and interest in cars is limited and seriously damped by increase in traffic over the last 20 years, and fact most of it is utility transport going places I need to go rather than ones I want to go to, in a convoy of other frustrated motorists all fighting for their bit of road room; so non enthusast auto, makes sense, if t cant be fun, at least make it easy and comfy; THEN, when I WANT to have fun, and go some-where I want, THEN the bike makes sense, and so does a proper cog box.

I couldn't conceive owning an auto scooter... for daily grind commuting and 'chore' travel, its still out in the cold, wet and miserable, you still have to dodge twenty thousand half awake idiots dozing on their sofa, AND, its either fun nor comfy, and 'easement' of an proper automatic transmission isn't dong much if blugger all to make it any easier or comfier... while denying that 'freedom' the whole thing is supposed to be about to be 'liberatd' from achines telling us what we should do or trying to dowhat they thnk we should do for us, on the few oportunities for geuine lesure rides I'd get...... so a bit either one world nor t'other for me...

AND, usng a geabox properly, exploiting the cotrol a cog box offers properly, NOT short shifting, and over shifting, riding for response, using the revs not the gears, EVEN on a 125, I can still use the gearbox so seldom, an auto wouldn't be 'saving' much if any effort.

For you? Learn to use a cog box properly. Aim for smooth DONT over shift. Ride for response, take car driver notions of block shiftng you cant do on a bike, and hauling tall for ecconomy off the table, if you don't get enough economy fro a 125 catch the ruddy bus, or use a push bike! They are hardly gas guzzling monsters like my Auto Armchair! And as a learner, learn to ride, ad learn how LITTLE you really need change gear, and so how little an auto-trans really might do for you....

And when not a learner... THEN make up your own mind whether you would actually be getting anything from an automatic transmission on any two wheeler, in the use you would put it to.

Key here is the 'Learner' and CBT sn't a licence ts just the first lesson, a pretty comprehensive one perhaps, but still a long way off teaching you all you need to know to meet test standard... and THAT aught be the objective here.

And as a learner, dodgng learning to use a gearbox properly ad well, sn't learning; t's dodgng, an aproach to avoid learning, avoid gettng better, avoid taking tests, and litterally taking to the roads, on a vehicle that is potetially as fast as anythng else can legally go, and face all the hazards there ay-one else does, WITHOUT the skills to really cope or cotend with them... on a wing ad a prayer, hoping for the best, rather than putting in the effort to MAKE the best of thngs, and lookig at the machinary to do the jobs for you you dont want to.... its NOT really a partcularly good aproach to start a long, happy and cofortable rdng career, really... bte the bullet, do the learnng, get the ticket, and THEN if you think you will gain fro an auto, give it a go... but if you kow how to use a gearbox and use t properly, how much 'easier' it is likely to be for you is likely egligble....

WHICH is why there have bee SO few genuinely full automatic transmission motorcycles over the last fifty years, at best a small umber of semi-auto ones, and an awful lot of hugely compromised by design twist and go scooters and so many of them, ridden on L-Plates by know-o-better numpties who just dont care to learn to ride properly, to whom the lack of a gearshift is just one 'more' think not to care about!

If you aren't enthusiastic eough to want to learn to ride... buy a scooter; catch the bus, walk or get a car. If you have the enthusasm for a powerd two wheeler, the you will probably want a gear-box, you will need to know how t use it properly and explot it, and probably wont want a scooter or a car, but a proper geared motorcycle. And THAT is why so few fully auto motorcycles have ever been offered.

G use L-Plate for iteded, to LEARN.. not dodge learning, get a licence and discover for yourself, along the way, why there are so few auto's out there, over 125cc.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 01:21 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only mentioning this for completeness's sake and eccentricity's, but you can make one from a semi-auto step-through quite easily.

Buy:
a step-through scooter (preferably a 1990s Honda Cub),
any tank you like,
2 x M8 bolts and nuts,
0.5m of fuel line,
two sections of metre-long box section mild steel (2mm thick, minimum) just over 1m in length, and
some timber offcuts.

Instructions:
1) Remove the legshield from the step-through.
2) Remove the seat from the step-through.
3) Remove the tank from under the seat of the step-through.
4) Measure from the top of the suspension mounts to the legshield mounting points. This measurement is x.
5) Drills holes x apart at either end of both of the box section steel bars.
6) Affix box section bars by means of the holes and M8 bolts to the legshield mounting point and existing rear suspension mounting points.
7) Construct appropriate jig using timber offcuts and the new tank's mounting points, to attach it to the parallel box section steel bars that now run from the rear to the forward part of the bike-like object.
8) Replace fuel line so it now runs under the new tank and down under the seat.
9) Reattach seat.
The end.

If you try this, you should really consider cutting down on smoking that stuff.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:50 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike.

Soz m​8 mi bad
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike.

Soz m​8 mi bad


Go sit on the naughty step Roger. Tut Tut
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Go sit on the naughty step Roger. Tut Tut

I'm going to have a think about what I've done wrong. Sad
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confused as to the end goal.

Say rocking horse shit is found and an automatic 125 is purchased.

Test passed, great.

Then what? Keep it? Or buy a Honda NC700s.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
thx1138 wrote:
Does it have to be 125?

It does until he get a licence.

Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike.


shush, don't wake him up
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
I'm confused as to the end goal.

Say rocking horse shit is found and an automatic 125 is purchased.

Test passed, great.

Then what? Keep it? Or buy a Honda NC700s.


Can't do that now though
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 00:08 - 19 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike, Teflon Mike.

Soz m​8 mi bad


With great power comes much responsibility.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 02:34 - 19 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
stuff


Never in the field of bcf conflict
has so much been written by so few
and scrolled over by so many..............
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