Bigger bike better?

[pepperami]

Over the last few days this fair weather biker has been out three days on the trot .
As the regulars will know, I am a fan of the mighty 250.
I've just spent two days on the 250's and great fun it was too.
However today I finally took the 600 for a long run.

Wow what a difference.
The smoothness of an in-line four compared to the 250 v- twin and the 250 single.
Obviously the 600 has so much more power, but that's not the whole picture.
I'd like to think I know how to ride a bike with almost any type of engine.
But I really "gelled" with the 600 today
It's a funny old thing how you "know" your bike even when you haven't ridden it for months .
I get great pleasure from the 250's but the 600 is fantastic also, is it better? A hard question for me.
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[ZX-7R]

More power is always better once you have experienced it.You will always want to get that buzz again.I imagine most people will miss it when downgrading in engine size for whatever reason.
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Current Bike - 2000 ZX-7R

[chickenstrip]

I have pondered this question a thousand times, and have come to the conclusion that there isn't a definitive answer. Overall, I prefer a litre IL4, because it's the kind of thing I'm used to over many years, but the Striple is fun, the old 2Ts were fun. I think it's more a mood thing than anything else.

I do prefer my Fazer to the Striple. It's nothing to do with one being better than the other, I don't think. More of a case of one suits me better than another.

But if you've not ridden a bike that you like for some time, chances are you'll enjoy it a lot when you do get back on it. A change is as good as a rest and all that.
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[pepperami]

[redeem ouzzer]

Depends what you are using it for.

I did 50 miles on my X5 this morning on mainly B roads and it was perfect, my 1100 would of been shite. Too heavy and too fast.

I don't believe one bike can fit all situations.
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[Teflon-Mike]

Not sure bigger is better, but horses for courses.

I can have fun thrashing the knackers off he 125, but much more than a short blast round the lanes or toddle to town and it starting to get rather tiring.

The VF1000 was great for all day in the saddle sight seeing, or trecking half the length of the country at near warp speeds to attend a event and get home again in the day.... little bit of work to manage on daily commute through brum, and while a little feet-up work when a tarmac lane petered out to gravel then just mud, or trying to get out of a muddy camping filed on a hill n the pouring rain was, err. interesting and a little exiting... after I was back on hard standing..... The 250 Rock-Hoppa offered more of that ind of fun all day long... but needing three up shifts to get to 30mph on an access track between sections and o saddle was somewhat 'tiresome' just for those few hundred yards , so probably not too much fun to even try pop the shops on, let alone, try a tour spending all day, err.. yeah on the saddle it doesn't really have! lol.

In similar manner, scrunching up to fit on a TZ or VFR400, on a track, could be thrilling.. but trying to ride VFR400 round town, trying to do under armpit shoulder checks every junction, wasn't really!

It's one of the reasons the Seven-Fifty has endeared and endured; it's a real jack of all trades and master of none. It's no-where near as comfy for an all day excursion as the old VF, nor as fast or as flexible, but is a tad more manageable. Nor is it as demanding or engaging to try ride a bit quick, as the 125, but it can still be fun to try, same as trying to get it out of a muddy camping field on a hill, where lack of hard panniers and expensive body work, make falling over a bit more of a 'laugh' than torture!

As an all-rounder, it does exactly what it says on the box, and can deliver a lot of fun, if not high octane thrills for it, whilst finding a bit more, having to work a bit harder near the margins, where it doesn't make loading up with luggage easy, or it will start to get a bit wallowy when pushed, or it will take a bit more effort to squeeze through snarled up traffic... on the chart, it might not deliver such peak thrill anywhere, but there is a heck of a lot of area beneath that curve, where fun may be found.

Tell probably four years or so ago, when 2upped over to a show with Snowie on the Super-Dream, and had to come back solo, to get the car to go sort a family crisis.... On country roads that twenty years ago had been part of my daily commute, it was great 'fun' chucking the thing about keeping up with a chap on a 600 Fazer, exploiting all it had to stay on the pace... but noting how the 30 zones through the villages had stretched into the country, and had 40 'calming' zones tagged on the end, ad many of the sections between re-classed as 50's, with radar sped signs and yellow scamera boxes added for good measure, DID make me ponder, whether I could live with 'only' the 125, for all the opportunity I got to use the 'extra' of the bigger bike..... to which the ultimate conclusion was 'no'.

While the 125 s perfectly n its element for so many of the miles I ever do, running p against the buffers that much sooner, it doesn't have that area under the graph versatility of the 750, and small savings on running costs, and the small added 'fun' when the tddler is in its element ISN'T enough to take the compromise. So for 'one' bike, the Seven-Fifty, for me at least 'is' better... but not because it's bigger. It's better because it's bigger than a 125 or 250, but smaller than a liter+! It's better because t does so much, 'competently' without diong anything particularly well; the 125 is engaging to ride because of how much rider involvement it demands, so in many ways did the 1000, especially if you wanted to try being a it spirited in the twisties, but mostly it just made everything 'easy'. Seven-Fifty maximizes the compromises, it offers enough to make so much 'easy', but stops 'just' that bit short of doing it all for you, and leaves plenty of room for you to get involved if you want to...

So, it is back to horse for courses, and bigger not necessarily always being 'better', but offering more scope to maximize the compromise, and cope with more courses, if not necessarily win on any of them.

And so the dilemma continues.... with the Seven-Fifty still making rather nasty clattering noises from its alternator chain, and ts MOT due in a month or so.... DO I put the old cart-horse out to pasture and buy a Black-Bird to replace the VF1000, as I have pondered almost every year since 2004? And maybe get the latest 125 Super-Dream project 'fished' to 'dumbell' the graph.. OR as is probably the most likely... do I give the old Dawg an oil change, bung it in for a moment of truth, and when she inevitable comes back with a advisory for rust on the handle-bars... treat her to a new battery and put off the question yet another year!

The question contains so many variables, of what may be 'better' in which cylinder displacement alone, is but tiny factor i the overall equation.

So, No, I don't think that bigger is necessarily 'better'.. better is getting the most out of the overall package, around that cylinder, however many there are or what their displacement may be.
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[andyscooter]

I seem to have more fum on Mt 125 then my 350

I'm a beta fag and boring
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[stonesie]

I can't imagine a 350 Enfield, if it's less enjoyable than a modern 125 and you still do that to yourself then more power to you.


In general I find bigger engines better, more punch out of slow corners and being generally less fussy about gear selection makes them a more relaxing ride on the road... I'm yet to try the MT on track but I think I will enjoy it

[ThatDippyTwat]

It's not about the displacement for me, it's the torque curve. I don't want a tractor like a Harley, but I'm not after a screaming 600 either. I don't care what size it is, or how many ponies are contained within it.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[notabikeranym...]

Smaller bikes are easier around town and more fun in town when the roads are empty, they can still handle twisties but you'll get sick of not being able to overtake especially on NSL. (Or you'll pull very sketchy overtakes)

I wouldn't ever prefer a 125 over a bigger bike though in any case. After riding a 125, 300, and now 600, smallest I could go back to and still enjoy is a 300.

Bigger bikes are limited around town (My R6 cooks itself and my nuts in slow moving traffic and the turning circle makes U turns impossible unless you're into that motogymkhana shit) and I've recently had far too many close calls with police around town because this engine eggs you on so much. But once you get out into the open twisties they're so much more rewarding than a smaller bike could ever be.

[Rogerborg]

Enfield today. Sunny day, out on the local back roads stuffed with walkers and pedalists. Lots of ostentatious courtesy, jaunty salutes, even a bit of friendly AROOGA horn for the common lulz.

Is that the bestest bike for that purpose? Yes.

On a wet, windy day, when I just want to get home with the minimum of fuss, is my BMW the bestest? Yes.

On a blowing-off-steam commute, battering trough traffic on the limiter, is my Ninja the bestest? Yes.

Every bike is the best bike, if you're in the right mood.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[choogh]

Don't know what the fuss is about,.. A Virago 535 plus a Beemer 1200rt cover all you will ever need..
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Current Squadron:
R1200rt. Virago 535
Loro Sono tra noi.

[M.C]

Depends if you want to ride a fast bike slowly or a slow bike quickly. I find the latter more rewarding.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Depends what I am using the bike for, and how interesting the power delivery is. Small sporty 2 strokes tend to suit me, and for fun I prefer them for fun.

All the best

Katy
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[Kentol750]

Keep both, ride them when you can.
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Some bikes.

[Jayy]

Thrashing a big 600cc single in the twisties is much more fun than a 600cc iL4.

[Kentol750]

like he says
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Some bikes.

[stevo as b4]

I've seen plenty of 600, and some 1000cc sports bikes out and about this weekend. I have to say that for me the liquid cooled smooth but howling IL4 especially in a faired bike is very much a bike of the late 80's to late 90's. I've seen them, ridden them and been there. Even the noise I find a bit boring now.

I find it strange how people that were riding current 4cylinder sports bikes 20years ago, are sometimes still buying much the same capacity and style of 4cylinder sports bikes new today. I also having ridden nothing modern struggle with the concept of change. I mean a 2002 R1/Blade was to me the pinnacle bikes when I was into sports bikes. I find it very hard to see how a 2017 BMW S1000RR or R1 is so very different or better.


Riders in 1998 couldn't use 150bhp on the road fully, I don't see how the situation has improved with revvier more peaky 200bhp bikes of the same capacity? I'd say fair play to anyone that enjoyed a 1997 Fireblade when new, and would today love to own a 2017 Fireblade. I don't see what your getting that's really different or more interesting for you cash?

Until the late 90's if you wanted a sportsbike you really had no choice but a 4cylinder engine, but now there's many other options out there and some look and sound more interesting to me now.

Anyway to answer the OP, personally I think the happiest time of my life was based around a 30-35bhp 100kg power to weight ratio. I'd go as far as 40bhp at 100kg, before I'm losing interest now.

A 30bhp bike of any weight is unlikely to to ever bother much over 100mph at best, but that's OK as all my best UK biking fun has been had at under 100mph.

I guess it's down to what you do with your bike, and what you need one for. For someone like me that does 50-500miles tops a year it's only about fun, and I don't need a big or expensive bike to get my enjoyment from.

For some that ride every year across Europe for two weeks with the wife and luggage, a Kawasaki GTR 1400 etc might be perfect.

I've done the current bike thing, and now nostalgia is the big pull for me. I wasn't old enough to have one at the time, but today I really appreciate the Yamaha LC with noisy microns experience, and that sort of back in the day 80's or 90's smoker is what I can relate to and appreciate most.

If I needed to actually go anywhere on bikes, or wanted to ride to work, do weekend ride outs, bike meets etc, I'd probably just go out and buy an MT 07 or similar.

The day I need proper transport, I'll sell all my old two and four wheeled shit and buy a nice sensible little hatchback and a middle weight modern naked bike. Hopefully that day will never come though, and I can keep enjoying my out dated nostalgic living in the past world.

[SBK1000]

More power is not all it's cracked up to be......

I rode my SV650 for about 7-8 years... at least 6 of those doing track days and moving up through the ranks...

I figure it was time to upgrade and I look at many different bikes... at the end, I pick a 2007 GSXR1000 for the price and performance. The bike has insane acceleration, especially with the -1 +3 sprocket swap. Power wheelies in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear... It's awesome!!!

Well, what is the problem? The problem is that I am usually riding the big all powerful bike at 6,000 rpm... When I want to go, "Fast", it's only for a few seconds, a minute the most... When you go fast, you actually have to concentrate hard on riding. Accelerating hard out of a corner is not easy when the rear likes to step out of line... Or wheelie! Sometimes you try to make steering corrections, and the front tire is hovering off the ground. You have to back off the throttle to steer the bike. Seems like I spend a large amount of time coasting, or braking at the track.

I actually miss the SV650. I could pin the throttle wide open all the time!!!
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MOTORCYCLES ARE DANGEROUSLY FUN!
A good street rider uses judgment, to avoid situations that require superior skill...
A good track rider uses superior skill, to seek situations that define their judgment...

[SuperMike]

As others have alluded to, it depends on your definition of better. Faster? Yes most probably. More fun / better, well that is debatable. The only big bike I have ever owned is my CBR650 - had it for 18 month or so now and love it. I will likely get around to test driving a Fireblade this summer at some point, but after this weekend just gone, not sure how I feel about actually owning one.

Went on a very spirited ride yesterday to visit the parents on the south coast. Sun was up, roads were clear - A3 all the way down. Got picked up by an Audi R10 and a Golf R32 who were having some 'fun'. It all obviously turned very willy wangly pretty quickly. I got to the front of it all after a slow down for traffic - I was in a better gear I suspect when it came to the Audi at least, and I opened her up. It's the first time I have really ever gunned it at motorway speeds - plenty of off the lights action of course. I got very very far north of 100mph shall we say. Audi still pulling revs behind. Golf not so much. Road went round to the right and I have never cornered at that sort of speed before. Started drifting over to the left hand lanes. Think Audi boy thought I was letting him through, and Jesus wept through he came...Had the road gone the other way I think I would have been in the central reservation - I ended up in lane 1 from 3. Backed it off and let them go.

Had I been on a blade or an R1 I would have been doing 180 - 200mph grabbing a handful of throttle out of third. Go to prison or go to the cemetery at those speeds. I just don't know if I want that sort of ability under my right wrist, not until I have a few more years of riding under me and some decent handling skills. I also hear a lot of litre bike owners lamenting that it is all a bit boring - put it in third and leave it there all day sort of riding. Anyway, all a bit of an epiphany for me yesterday

[chickenstrip]

[Jayy]

[Matt B]

[SuperMike]

[matlow]