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Soon to be rider - Is a garage mandatory ?

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SDFarsight
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 02 May 2017
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 02 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpineandy wrote:
SDFarsight wrote:
On that note, I was thinking of getting a 125 and then doing a DAS to get my full A licence or at least an A1 (I currently have a CBT certificate).

If you're over 24 then my recommendation would be to do your DAS rather than get an expensive 125 (as they all are, for what they are) with expensive 125 insurance.
A bigger bike (sensibly bigger rather than a fireblade etc) is in many ways easier to ride and is only as fast as your right wrist allows it to be.
Find a decent local training school and discuss it with them.
Once you've ridden their 500-650 training bike then I'd be surprised if you don't drop the idea of a 125 in a millisecond.


Interesting, I'll consider it. Smile
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VickRides
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Joined: 26 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow guys thank you so much for all the input and replies !

So I think a general consensus is that I should look more into getting 2nd hand as I`ll drop the thing as my 1st bike.
Hard to believe though is that a second hand bike will be more reliable than a brand new one, because it`s had owners and proved itself. I don`t know much about bikes admitedly, but I`d feel more confident riding a new bike than a bike 3 other dudes rode and/or have dropped.

I keep seeing that 300cc will be to small and I should get a 500cc ? That I don`t know if I`m sold on to be honest, and I assume insurance will be higher so. And I really want to stay away from 500 bikes for a few years anyway to be fair ...

As for garage/security, I live in a place of flats, there`s not much space for anchors and doubt I`d get permission to put one in. I`ll look more into renting a garage from council soon, will ask around maybe I can find smth decent.

Finally , INSURANCE (anti theft, anti arson, etc) for a 300 CC bike for a brand-new DAS rider, how much would it be more or less? Approximately ofcourse, but am I looking at 300 a year, 600 a year or 1000+ a year (which sounds insane to me)

Thanks guys for the advice , I am very very grateful for all your input so far, so much stuff I haven`t even thought about Very Happy

Best,
Vick.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VickRides wrote:
INSURANCE

<tef>
Cost will vary massively dependent on your age, your location, where you keep it and, to some degree, model. Big engine does not automatically mean high insurance. Tendency for a certain bike to be crashed or stolen a lot means high insurance. Expensive repairs mean high insurance. Ergo, a larger naked bike may be cheaper than a smaller faired bike. Get quotes.

When getting quotes, declare no aftermarket security. No disk locks, no chains, nothing, because if you do, then contract between you and the insurers is that you always use them. Precisely the ones you've listed. If you change a lock, forget to put lock on, whatever, you may struggle getting a payout if stolen.

500 bikes are not big. 600 is your "standard" big bike. And by "big bike" I mean not a toy. Many 1st timers are reluctant to go too big too early. But for no good reason really. If you're buying small, buy cheap because you'll be chucking it in against something bigger in no time.

For a first bike, if you must buy new buy naked. You can replace levers and footpegs with a spanner. Fairings and paint cost a lot.
</tef>
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VickRides wrote:
I keep seeing that 300cc will be to small and I should get a 500cc?

Entirely up to you. I just think it's unlikely that you'll train and test on a 600 and get used to all that torque and power, then want to buy a bike with half of that.

I'd certainly encourage you to consider it - I have a great laugh on my 250. But I'm on the 800 today and enjoying all that extra oomph. I'm not sure I could part with the big bike in favour of the small, although I am considering it.

Keep an open mind, is the take-away point. You won't know what you're ready for until you're licensed up.


VickRides wrote:
I assume insurance will be higher

Don't make any assumptions about insurance. It makes no sense. A ~60hp GPZ500S cost me less to insure than a ~10hp 125.

An older, cheaper bike that you can cover TPFT or even TPO might cost you a lot less to insure than a new 300 and comprehensive cover. Like, the value of the bike less. Free bike!

Costs are entirely dependent on the exact set of circumstances that you plug into a comparison site. Adding security can increase quotes. You really will have to run a load of indicative quotes with your details (well, Mr Fakename a few doors down) to see what's what.


VickRides wrote:
And I really want to stay away from 500 bikes for a few years anyway to be fair ...

You'll have a hard time getting a licence then.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Originally post test I wanted a new 250, and I remember the insurance quotes being high. Power's a factor but it isn't like car insurance where bigger (generally) means more expensive, as the Borg says a GPZ or a Bandit will be cheap to insure.

I don't think starting small's a bad idea, the most dangerous thing about big bike's the weight IMO, not just falling over but when you get it wrong going into a corner (which you will as a new rider) big bikes are a lot less forgiving.
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VickRides
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 26 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I`ve been looking around and sort of reached this conclusion for a temporary time until I pass DAS.

I will be looking into getting a 2nd hand 2015/2016 Z300 naked bike. It will still be under Kawasaki insurance hopefully, but at least it would have proved itself to no malfunction. And from what I can see , instead of paying 4300 for one I`d pay 3200 so that 1000 pound difference can go into gear.

Not sure how I can know if the former owner crashed it though, that`s my other fear lol.

The thing is right now I want a z300 more than I want any other bike in general for some reason. Either a z300 or a mt07 , but 700cc , I just don`t see myself learning on.

Anyway I`ll be studying this weekend for highway code and after that will book DAS.

Thank you so much guys for the replies and help you have been phenomenally helpful and I appreciate your time Smile

Vick.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VickRides wrote:
Not sure how I can know if the former owner crashed it though, that`s my other fear lol.

If it hasn't been repaired properly it's pretty obvious. If it has been repaired properly, who cares?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VickRides wrote:
The thing is right now I want a z300 more than I want any other bike in general for some reason.

For no reason other than how you imagine it might ride.


VickRides wrote:
Either a z300 or a mt07 , but 700cc , I just don`t see myself learning on.

You'll need to visualise it pretty quickly.

If you want a full A licence, you'll be getting it on a 600cc+ bike like an MT-07, ER6, SV650, CBF600 or Bandit 650. Most of those are heavier than an MT-07. There's no other way to get that licence.

Even if you were to waste your time and money getting an A2 licence, in practice you'd be using at least a 195kg CB500F (heavier than an MT-07), and quite possibly a restricted version of one of the A training bikes listed above. So all the cost, time and difficulty for half the rewards - don't do it, go full A.

Whatever you do, don't go full ADHD and buy a Z300 or any other bike before you've got your licence. You'll be doing so from a position of ignorance and are very likely to end up with something that you quickly want to change.

Licence, gear, security, insurance, then bike.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Whatever you do, don't go full ADHD and buy a Z300 or any other bike before you've got your licence. You'll be doing so from a position of ignorance and are very likely to end up with something that you quickly want to change.

Licence, gear, security, insurance, then bike.

This. Impatience leads to bad* decisions.



*Uninformed decisions, which are usually bad. Occasionally you get lucky.
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155mph
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you completed your CBT or did I miss that?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
VickRides wrote:
Not sure how I can know if the former owner crashed it though, that`s my other fear lol.

If it hasn't been repaired properly it's pretty obvious. If it has been repaired properly, who cares?

If it's been in a recorded accident, lots of people when you come to sell it on. I wouldn't have too much issue buying a pre-stacked bike but I'd want to make sure it rides straight. Obviously the price would have to reflect this.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
VickRides wrote:
I just don`t see myself learning on.

You'll need to visualise it pretty quickly.

If you want a full A licence, you'll be getting it on a 600cc+ bike like an MT-07, ER6, SV650, CBF600 or Bandit 650. Most of those are heavier than an MT-07. There's no other way to get that licence.
.
.
.
Whatever you do, don't go full ADHD and buy a Z300 or any other bike before you've got your licence. You'll be doing so from a position of ignorance and are very likely to end up with something that you quickly want to change.

Licence, gear, security, insurance, then bike.


This /\ /\ /\ .
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VickRides
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 13:43 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey dudes , I agree fully with the suggestion on not doing any quick decisions, and I won`t get any bike until I passed my full DAS.

To clarify when I said I don`t see myself learning on a 700cc bike I meant that for the next 2ish years I`d like to learn riding a smaller one to it`s full potential, but I agree that this opinion is based purely on how I imagine riding a 300 or 700 bike that I`ve neither ridden yet.

That said I am aware that I will be riding a mt07 when I have my DAS (sometime this month hopefully), and I look forward to trying out a big bike in that regard and see if it will change my mind or not.

Finally,yes I`ve passed my CBT, theory is next step in line then I`ll book DAS asap Smile

All noted down gents Very Happy Will keep you guys updated !

Also

Rogerborg wrote:

Licence, gear, security, insurance, then bike.


Security - you mean locks and chains, disk break, cover, maybe gps, garage (hopefully) ? anything else I should know about with regards to security ?

Thank you guys for your time,
Vick.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VickRides wrote:
To clarify when I said I don`t see myself learning on a 700cc bike I meant that for the next 2ish years I`d like to learn riding a smaller one to it`s full potential

That does actually make sense. One of the great things about the previous graduated licensing system was that it was intended to encourage gradually moving up in capacity and power.

I enjoyed that. 125 -> slow 250 -> 300 -> 500 -> 800 was about right. I got that hit of extra performance each time. Now I've got that out of my system, I've realised that even ~70hp is more than I tend to use, and am heading back down again.

The new system starts you off with a big bang. You'll come out licensed for any bike, and feeling that having spent all that money that you might as well get a Fire-busa.

However, there's a lot of fun to be had with smaller capacities. Just don't get into a point-and-squirt competition with litre-bike Sunday heroes. Wink

VickRides wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Licence, gear, security, insurance, then bike.

Security - you mean locks and chains, disk break, cover, maybe gps, garage (hopefully) ? anything else I should know about with regards to security ?

Nope, that's about it. They're investments, they'll go with you from bike to bike, so it's worth spending up front.

You can also look into the likes of Datatag or Alphadot, but personally I think they're very unlikely to dissuade thieves, or result in you getting your bike back before an insurer has already paid out on it, or it's been stripped for parts. I didn't even bother to pay to update the Datatag registration on my Nazi Tractor. Any deterrent effect can be fully simulated by slapping a bunch of stickers on your bike claiming that it's security marked.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about this the other day after selling the MT-03 to a noob. Going from a 125 to that bike's like going from the (47bhp) MT-03 to a 954 blade, sounds simple but I'd never thought of it in those terms before.

Also backs up my feeling the jump to a big bike's the 'difficult' bit, rather than big bike to different big bike. An R125 will take over 13 seconds to 60, MT-03 5.2, and the 954 3 seconds.

I guess what I'm trying to say's not-so-big bikes are still more than enough to get into trouble on, I believe the 300's will do 60 in about 5-6 seconds.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, a 500 felt too small, a 600 was ok. First bike where I thought "woah what's plenty now" was my VFR800. It's not just about 0-60. It's 30-50 and 50-80. I like a bike that can do all of the above quicker than I want to.

My wife, however, has never really adjusted to big bikes. She's owned 3 and never really felt comfortable on any of them. I think she wants an MT03 now. Misses her YBR, truth be told.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks innit. So find out what your strokes are before handing over thousands to someone. And be prepared for tomorrow's strokes to differ to today's. Or something.
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VickRides
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 09:58 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a bit of a little update, Monday I have my theory tests woohoo Very Happy
Then DAS Very Happy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one. You OK with the hazard perception in the theory? That it's just a game and you need to learn where the scoring zones are.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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simoncrn
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anybody considered or brought either of these

http://www.asgardsss.co.uk/motorcycle-garage

or

http://www.brodco.co.uk/daylightsecure/motorbike-storage/
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Police" approved? Eh?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VickRides wrote:
To clarify when I said I don`t see myself learning on a 700cc bike I meant that for the next 2ish years I`d like to learn riding a smaller one to it`s full potential, but I agree that this opinion is based purely on how I imagine riding a 300 or 700 bike that I`ve neither ridden yet.

There's a big difference in the power of bikes in the 500cc-750cc range.
There's docile sub-50bhp bikes through to frantic 125+bhp bikes.
It really does depend on how you ride it.
Even with a 300cc race style bike you can easily potato yourself trying to ride it to it's full potential.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

simoncrn wrote:

Considered one for my last garageless house, yes.

What stopped me?

1. Presence of such a thing screams "HERE BE BIKES" whereas a regular garage could have any old junk in it. Better than a bike on open display, but not much better than a regular cover.

2. Metal attracts condensation and my gut feel based on no research was that it would be constantly wet inside and the bike would rust like hell.
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VickRides
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Nice one. You OK with the hazard perception in the theory? That it's just a game and you need to learn where the scoring zones are.


On the theory tests, I either take it with all correct or maybe mess up one every now and then, as for Hazzards, it`s such a hit and miss to be honest. Sometimes I loose the 5 points because I tapped too soon ? Sometimes I tap right but it`s just 2-3 points. I rewatch the thing where they score the 5 star point and I can guess it`s impossible to spot it that soon. I hope I don`t fail hazzard lol
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a damn silly game, but you have to play it. Click, wait a second, click, wait a second, click. You'll score enough to pass. It doesn't matter by how much.

Bear in mind that it's aimed at novices and the standard is barely avoid a developed hazard, rather than act soon enough to prevent the hazard from developing. Which wound me up like a watch.

I'd really love to see a police driving or riding instructor do the hazard perception without preparation. I'd imagine they'd score a fat 0 for clicking too early in every clip.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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simoncrn
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
simoncrn wrote:

Considered one for my last garageless house, yes.

What stopped me?

1. Presence of such a thing screams "HERE BE BIKES" whereas a regular garage could have any old junk in it. Better than a bike on open display, but not much better than a regular cover.

2. Metal attracts condensation and my gut feel based on no research was that it would be constantly wet inside and the bike would rust like hell.


1. If it as secure as the manufacturer claims, significantly more better than just a regular cover

2. My parents have got a metal shed which I erected for them, the metal sides of the shed does attract damp in the colder weather but the mountain bike that are in there have not had any issues with rust.....
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