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Getting an injection mould made in China

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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Getting an injection mould made in China Reply with quote

Anyone got any experience in this that can offer some advice / contacts?

Thanks! Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sort of size are we talking? 16mm x 19mm, about 26-28cm long, slightly curved?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
What sort of size are we talking? 16mm x 19mm, about 26-28cm long, slightly curved?


Added camera? A squirty thing?
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you a grown man?
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made mine myself in my bedroom. If you need any pro tips just PM me.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

(It's not rainscammatebuddy)
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
I made mine myself in my bedroom. If you need any pro tips just PM me.


Already done the prototype made at home thing (diy vacuum former) 👍

This needs to be steel and suitable for mass production.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used to work in injection moulding

Making car lights for the Japanese market mainly

Honda Nissan Toyota mainly

And Renault Bentley ford

Moulds used to cost thousands to be any good

One we had for Nissan juke rear lens was just over 60 grand

Hth
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 30 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
Used to work in injection moulding

Making car lights for the Japanese market mainly

Honda Nissan Toyota mainly

And Renault Bentley ford

Moulds used to cost thousands to be any good

One we had for Nissan juke rear lens was just over 60 grand

Hth


Tar.

Yes quotes I've had from U.K. Companies have been between 17k and 54k - but Chinese companies have offered to make the mound for me for 4K.

Generally you get what you pay for... but as I only need he looks to last for 1-2k units ... and I don't have to pay the 70% balance until I'm satisfied... I don't see a problem? Any thoughts from your experience?
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spikenipple
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A decent mould will make tens of thousands of good parts without any degradation in output quality.

A shit mould will make tens of thousands of shit parts without any degradation in output quality.

Make sure you communicate properly what the end product is used for, and the surface finish and part accuracy that you require.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like I'm missing half the thread here.

But, if this is for a product then it makes sense to go cheap to start and then invest once the money is coming in. If you pay for a £60k and nobody buys it then you'd be quite upset.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
Chinese companies have offered to make the mound for me for 4K.


Under what terms? They own the tooling and keep hold of it, you can only get your mouldings produced by their factory? Bear in mind that IP, copyright, protection of any kind does not (in effect) exist in China. You take the risk of having them manufacture and distribute your product if it's any good.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
I feel like I'm missing half the thread here.

But, if this is for a product then it makes sense to go cheap to start and then invest once the money is coming in. If you pay for a £60k and nobody buys it then you'd be quite upset.


Yeah sorry for the Non disclosure! Sad It is for a new product. There is nothing to base forecasted sales on because its unlike anything that currently exists.

Its kind of a catch 22. I don't know how well this will sell until I have some made.

I cant get some made until I have the mould. Rolling Eyes

I can get 4k-7k together for a mould to test the water, but 17k-54k is ridiculous.

I think I'll take a punt on a middle of the road chinese quote. I'd only pay 30% up front and only pay the balance if I am happy with the quality of the mould / products it produces.

(If no one on here has an actual previous experience with a particular chinese factory that is of course that they can recommend.)
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
I think I'll take a punt on a middle of the road chinese quote.


I strongly suggest you take some proper advice before doing this. Speak to a manufacturing consultant that has actual experience and first hand knowledge of Chinese factories before throwing £7k into the unknown. Also do some market research regarding the product. Dragon's Den is a joke but it's full of people with "great" ideas they have sunk thousands into just because they thought it was great. Often, other people (i.e. consumers or the target market) don't.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:


Under what terms? They own the tooling and keep hold of it, you can only get your mouldings produced by their factory? Bear in mind that IP, copyright, protection of any kind does not (in effect) exist in China. You take the risk of having them manufacture and distribute your product if it's any good.


They keep the Mould on site and will allow me to use it in another factory in China, but not remove it from the country.

First batch have to be done by them (but are included in the price anyway - so go figure?)

Copyright would be an issue, but what can you do?


Matt B wrote:

I strongly suggest you take some proper advice before doing this. Speak to a manufacturing consultant that has actual experience and first hand knowledge of Chinese factories before throwing £7k into the unknown. Also do some market research regarding the product. Dragon's Den is a joke but it's full of people with "great" ideas they have sunk thousands into just because they thought it was great. Often, other people (i.e. consumers or the target market) don't.


Good advice.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
Yeah sorry for the Non disclosure! Sad It is for a new product.

You can just point us at your mechanical patents and registered designs.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
Yeah sorry for the Non disclosure! Sad It is for a new product.

You can just point us at your mechanical patents and registered designs.


Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without patents and registered designs, what's to stop the Adam Aarons from ripping you off?

Bro, do you even Dragons' Den?
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Without patents and registered designs, what's to stop the Adam Aarons from ripping you off?

Bro, do you even Dragons' Den?


I know Sad

I'm not worried about AA - as his life saving idea has already amassed nearly 47 Billion pre-orders. There's no point him copying it. Rolling Eyes (plus hes not clever enough)

Patents will cots me many many thousands of ponds and will take 5 years (if successful at all)

Design rights I have.
Trademark I have. (In the correct class of product as well - take note scampal)

Potential for copying if its a successful product = high. Crying or Very sad
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
Design rights I have.

A registered design?

Then it's already in the public domain. I mean, unless you've pulled an Aarons and registered a different design from the one that you're actually producing, in which case you've wasted your time and monies.


Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
Potential for copying if its a successful product = high. Crying or Very sad

Then Y U NO no patent? At least file a self-prepared one, even if it's Aaronsishly incompetent.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just design rights (the default ones you get simply by creating something) - I haven't actually registered it yet - will be doing that at the same time as the trademark (Not actually done that yet either).

The Patent is a tricky one. I've been trying to find a patent attorney that can give me some advice.

That's my next step.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry[*] to be That Guy, but without putting in the time and cost to protect yourself thoroughly, I can only see two outcomes:

1) Your product fails (the Adam Aarons solution).
2) Your product succeeds, and you immediately get ripped off. (Trevor Bayliss, sad times).

Soz, fam. It is what it is.

[*] As I ever get.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Sorry[*] to be That Guy, but without putting in the time and cost to protect yourself thoroughly, I can only see two outcomes:

1) Your product fails (the Adam Aarons solution).
2) Your product succeeds, and you immediately get ripped off. (Trevor Bayliss, sad times).

Soz, fam. It is what it is.

[*] As I ever get.


Yup.

But its obviously going to be option 3. Confused

3) Project succeeds and the intellectual property protection combined with the brand is strong enough to keep it afloat.



Its not a question of not wanting to patent it / not trying to patent it. Its whether I actually can. (question for a patent attorney)

As soon as I get the trademark registered and an answer on the patent front, I'll let you know what it actually is. Smile

(So you can rip it to shreds obvs) Karma Laughing
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Protecting it is somewhat of a moot point where Chinese factories are concerned.

AFAIK Land Rover are not wholeheartedly backing the Land Wind X7.

https://i0.wp.com/www.carnewschina.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/landwind-range-rover-9a.jpg
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 31 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now THAT is taking the proverbial a little bit! Smile


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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