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Virago 535 Overcharging

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oscar777
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Virago 535 Overcharging Reply with quote

Checked the voltage at the battery today and its a whoping 17volts at idle. Climbs to 18 at around 3000k.

But the strange thing is that the lights, indicators etc dim quite a lot at idle then brighten up significantly when revs increase. Turn signals seem too fast in frequency.

Now 1. How has this not fired all the components on this bike.
2. Are these typical symptoms of a bad rectifier or have I got bad ground somewhere?
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Petemate
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Re: Virago 535 Overcharging Reply with quote

Oscar777 wrote:
Checked the voltage at the battery today and its a whoping 17volts at idle. Climbs to 18 at around 3000k.

But the strange thing is that the lights, indicators etc dim quite a lot at idle then brighten up significantly when revs increase. Turn signals seem too fast in frequency.

Now 1. How has this not fired all the components on this bike.
2. Are these typical symptoms of a bad rectifier or have I got bad ground somewhere?


Surprised it hasn't blown some of the bulbs., especially with such high readings. You may well be on the right track (sorry for pun) with a possible earth problem. Good idea initially to thoroughly check all the earths.
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andys675
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

very common reg rec failure on these, usually the 47x type bolted to the footrest hanger, same as a TDR250, RD350F2 afaik, cheap as chips

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=47x+reg&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X47x+yamaha+regulator.TRS0&_nkw=47x+yamaha+regulator&_sacat=0
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the diagrams I have of Viagras show 3 phase wires in from the stator
and only one output wire, the DC power out.
This suggests its earthed via its body to the frame and internally regulated.
If the RR isn't making good electrical contact with the frame then both
output current and voltage regulation could go wonky
so I'd check this first before pricing up a new one.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

andys675 wrote:
very common reg rec failure on these, usually the 47x type bolted to the footrest hanger, same as a TDR250, RD350F2 afaik, cheap as chips


Not so common, I agree with WD Forte and Petemate on this one. Common failure would be no charging = burned RECtifier. When having a combined REG/REC unit, it is rather rare for only the REGulator part to get damaged and the RECtifier (diode) being completely alright.

I'm not saying it can not happen, but it would be rather rare.
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Last edited by RhynoCZ on 17:21 - 06 Apr 2017; edited 2 times in total
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oscar777
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assumed it was the R/R but the only thing that confused me is why the lights are dimming so much at this high voltage. Hence makes me thing bad ground.

Anyone know where the rectifier is on a 1995 535?
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Stoker
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were reading 18v at the battery terminals at +tickover, then your battery is most definitely fucked by now, if you have ridden it for more than a couple of hours.
I managed to boil off 2/3 of the electrolyte on a new battery in less than a week after replacing it, as many on here have said before...MULTIMETER! I have learned.

Just been trying to find a similar thread where someone recommended using "any" jap reg/rec, as similar in delivery....can't find it tho.
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Stoker
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 01 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Multimeters can send you on a wild goose-chase when looking for bad grounds. If, for example, you are testing a wire that 50 out of its 56 strands of copper snapped/corroded,you would still have continuity. The old fashioned method of using a couple of wires attached to a bulb has its merits here, and i appreciate that is not much help to you at the moment, but I am rather drunk at the moment.
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salem1987
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PostPosted: 07:35 - 03 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever you do dont ride it with the reg/rec failing!

Worked on one in the past which was overcharging and it burnt out 2 CDI's (TCI's) in the process. They arent a cheap fix at all, unless you're handy with a soldering iron to replace the burnt out transitors.

First symptom normally is it running on one cylinder if the CDI/TCI is failing.
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neptune8
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 03 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, test the test gear. An old, damaged or cheap multimeter can give incorrect readings, as can a sound multimeter with a flat internal battery. Test some known DC voltage sources, such as a new 1.5 volt cell, and or a 9 volt battery. Next test bike battery with engine off. The reading here should not exceed about 12.8 volts.
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oscar777
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 03 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

salem1987 wrote:
Whatever you do dont ride it with the reg/rec failing!

Worked on one in the past which was overcharging and it burnt out 2 CDI's (TCI's) in the process. They arent a cheap fix at all, unless you're handy with a soldering iron to replace the burnt out transitors.

First symptom normally is it running on one cylinder if the CDI/TCI is failing.


Is it obvious its running on one cylinder? i.e. one pipe wouldn't get hot.

Is it possible there some damage to the tci anyway? might have to have a look inside that...
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salem1987
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 04 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah exactly. One pipe will be a lot cooler than the other.
If its running on two now i wouldnt worry about it personally but looking inside the TCI cant hurt just incase its starting to burn.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 05 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

535 rectifier is different, if you're lucky you can take the cover off and use one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/To-Fit-Yamaha-XV535-XV750-VIRAGO-Regulator-Rectifier-REG-REC-/111779803415?hash=item1a06987117:g:d88AAMXQNo5TbRas, otherwise you might have to shout for a one-piece https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regulator-Rectifier-for-1999-Yamaha-XV-535-Virago-4YH9-/322261229697?hash=item4b08442081:g:hbUAAOSwiLdWAsvw

The original looks like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/To-Fit-Yamaha-XV535-XV750-VIRAGO-Regulator-Rectifier-REG-REC-/111779803415?hash=item1a06987117:g:d88AAMXQNo5TbRas

Probably cheaper to fit a replacement rectifier into a 2nd hand heatsink rather than fork for a one-piece.

Haynes will tell you how to check the reg/rec and alternator is within spec. I can't remember the bike specific test.

Note that if a 535 is set to idle super low, it won't be enough to maintain battery charge or headlamp brightness, my old gunson multimeter has masking taped on marks telling me the virago should idle warm at 1100rpm. This is a bit faster than the sound traditionally associated with american agricultural equipment and it is common to find viragos set with a slow idle in order to replicate this.
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oscar777
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 05 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

talkToTheHat wrote:
535 rectifier is different, if you're lucky you can take the cover off and use one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/To-Fit-Yamaha-XV535-XV750-VIRAGO-Regulator-Rectifier-REG-REC-/111779803415?hash=item1a06987117:g:d88AAMXQNo5TbRas, otherwise you might have to shout for a one-piece https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regulator-Rectifier-for-1999-Yamaha-XV-535-Virago-4YH9-/322261229697?hash=item4b08442081:g:hbUAAOSwiLdWAsvw

The original looks like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/To-Fit-Yamaha-XV535-XV750-VIRAGO-Regulator-Rectifier-REG-REC-/111779803415?hash=item1a06987117:g:d88AAMXQNo5TbRas

Probably cheaper to fit a replacement rectifier into a 2nd hand heatsink rather than fork for a one-piece.

Haynes will tell you how to check the reg/rec and alternator is within spec. I can't remember the bike specific test.

Note that if a 535 is set to idle super low, it won't be enough to maintain battery charge or headlamp brightness, my old gunson multimeter has masking taped on marks telling me the virago should idle warm at 1100rpm. This is a bit faster than the sound traditionally associated with american agricultural equipment and it is common to find viragos set with a slow idle in order to replicate this.


I ordered the first link you wrote.

Seems too good to be true price wise tbh. But I figure even as a diagnostic aid its worth the few quid.

Yes Ive noticed the low idle, was one of the first things I adjusted.

Since Ive got your attention, any tips on cleaning up the grounds etc. and possibly routing a new ground from the battery? I'm going to look for this Hayes manual.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 05 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look/join viragotechforum.com forum just for Virago, all the info is there.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 01:36 - 06 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

viragotechforum.com can be very good, as long as you accept that "have you tried seafoam?" (meerkin redex) is their "chain's slack, subframes twisted" and repudiating this is akin to a :nobcat:
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 06 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Having bought a 750 virago that the po had only put 12 miles on between MOTs and having a bit of rough idling, (only running on choke) I did use the viragotec top tip seafoam, bike runs great now lol
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 06 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
Very Happy Having bought a 750 virago that the po had only put 12 miles on between MOTs and having a bit of rough idling, (only running on choke) I did use the viragotec top tip seafoam, bike runs great now lol


Most of the time the best thing you can do to your motorcycle is to ride it and rev it to the rev limiter every now and then, to clean the combustion chambers, spark plugs and head canals. People do not realise that, especially car owners. Using your engine at low revs all the time, and doing only short trips, you are actually hurting it. Wink
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 06 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
I'm not saying it can not happen, but it would be rather rare.


It isn't rare at all, stop talking rubbish.
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oscar777
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 09 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I ordered the cheap Regulator off eBay.

Plugged it in, the old one was cracked right down the middle so safe to assume its knackered.

Now I didn't actually mount the regulator in and turned the bike on. Got 12.54V at the battery at idle, wouldn't go up any higher from revving it.

Should i have mounted it to the heatsink and to the frame? (assumed it grounds at one of its cables)
Is the rectifier they sent me bad? I assume if stator was putting out over 17-18V with the old rectifier that it still has some life in it.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 09 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

oscar777 wrote:
So I ordered the cheap Regulator off eBay.

Plugged it in, the old one was cracked right down the middle so safe to assume its knackered.

Now I didn't actually mount the regulator in and turned the bike on. Got 12.54V at the battery at idle, wouldn't go up any higher from revving it.

Should i have mounted it to the heatsink and to the frame? (assumed it grounds at one of its cables)
Is the rectifier they sent me bad? I assume if stator was putting out over 17-18V with the old rectifier that it still has some life in it.


Not sure about modern stuff, but the old ones had to be earthed. I've been fortunate, never had a modern bike with a charging issue.
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oscar777
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 09 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
oscar777 wrote:
So I ordered the cheap Regulator off eBay.

Plugged it in, the old one was cracked right down the middle so safe to assume its knackered.

Now I didn't actually mount the regulator in and turned the bike on. Got 12.54V at the battery at idle, wouldn't go up any higher from revving it.

Should i have mounted it to the heatsink and to the frame? (assumed it grounds at one of its cables)
Is the rectifier they sent me bad? I assume if stator was putting out over 17-18V with the old rectifier that it still has some life in it.


Not sure about modern stuff, but the old ones had to be earthed. I've been fortunate, never had a modern bike with a charging issue.


I think its safe to say this 1995 Virago uses tech from the 70s.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 18 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless it has a big thick black wire connecting to a ground somewhere then you need to ground it. A few with the dummy tank era loom have a ground plug for the older rectifier, but the one with the decorative heatsink grounds through the frame. Some pattern ones do both.
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