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ULEZ London - date set.

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PostPosted: 15:24 - 11 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

pooterer wrote:
and what is that exact date exactly?

M.C in the post directly above yours wrote:
The other is that the real cut-off date (July 2007) means a bunch of 2-strokes (and other non-Euro 3 bikes) squeak in, whilst some Euro 3 bikes don't.

Neutral
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pooterer
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PostPosted: 04:50 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

so July 07? im sure there has to be a tonne of bike registered past that date that didnt hit Euro 3 standards?
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bamt
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PostPosted: 07:54 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the online checker says that some prior to that date are fine - my 55 plate Pan, for example.
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pooterer
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooo basically there is no reliable way to check? this is some great scheme theyre implementing here...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's almost like they'd prefer to surprise you with charges rather than to deter vehicles that are actually polluting. Surely some mistake.
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pooterer
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It's almost like they'd prefer to surprise you with charges rather than to deter vehicles that are actually polluting. Surely some mistake.


Surely our goobermint wouldnt screw us over like this?
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 12 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

pooterer wrote:
so July 07? im sure there has to be a tonne of bike registered past that date that didnt hit Euro 3 standards?

Yes loads that were late registrations, and as they do appear to be going by registration date it's worth checking every vehicle individually.

bamt wrote:
And the online checker says that some prior to that date are fine - my 55 plate Pan, for example.

I am going to give up in a second Razz

M.C wrote:
Did we ever work out what was going on with the ULEZ checker?

Just checked again, '03 CBR600RR subject to ULEZ, '53 plate CBR600RR not subject to the ULEZ Confused

I assume they'll eventually realise their error (or not). I don't know if that'll be a defence when the charge comes in (assuming it remains), normally authoritah are a bit la la la whatevs when it comes to their mistakes.
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 13 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

if the implementation of the charge is anything like the congestion charge, then you won;t actually be able to check if you're considered to be required to pay the charge at the time of crossing into the boundary.

(with the congestion charge if you drive into the zone there's currently no way to find out if TfL thinks you owe them money or not, you just have to assume it)
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pooterer
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 13 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is really a load of shit but tbh i am not surprised in the least....
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 13 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vracktal wrote:
if the implementation of the charge is anything like the congestion charge, then you won;t actually be able to check if you're considered to be required to pay the charge at the time of crossing into the boundary.

(with the congestion charge if you drive into the zone there's currently no way to find out if TfL thinks you owe them money or not, you just have to assume it)

You can wait for the fine to arrive Smile If you know where the zone starts and know the times it isn't really an issue.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit I'm not up to speed here but basically. if I ride an older bike they are going to pay me to ride into that shithole called London?
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another 'consultation' www.tfl.gov.uk/airquality-consultation

Expanding the ULEZ for light vehicles (cars, vans and motorcycles) from central London to inner London up to, but not including the North and South Circular roads in 2021 so that all vehicles in this area are subject to emissions standards
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 12 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gasps of surprise! Who could have seen that coming?

Well, last week, I discovered that my 2010 plated racebike appears to have been first registered in 2005. But its first MOT was in 2014, with minimal miles. And the ULEZ checker says its exempt. I have no idea any more.
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pooterer
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PostPosted: 03:34 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Another 'consultation' www.tfl.gov.uk/airquality-consultation

Expanding the ULEZ for light vehicles (cars, vans and motorcycles) from central London to inner London up to, but not including the North and South Circular roads in 2021 so that all vehicles in this area are subject to emissions standards


just did the survey myself, almost everything set as "strongly opposed". Ofcourse it'll make no difference really in the end...

heres the direct link: https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/consultation/subpage.2017-11-29.7192468685/
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 13 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CEO and Chief Scientologist of Rainpal Inc was not pleased at the racism inherent in the lack of a "motorscooter" option, I can tell you that.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 22 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAG still haven't got that meeting with the junior deputy assistant backup transport secretary's temporary assistant, but by golly they're not letting up with the "Why, someone oughta..." press releases.

News from the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) wrote:

Khan’s bike tax will charge poorest workers £12.50 a day
for ‘privilege of emptying his bin’

This version: 2018 02 22 Embargo: IMMEDIATE

The Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) is challenging the Mayor of London with three clear questions regarding ‘extraordinary and discriminatory claims about motorcycling in London.’

MAG has challenged London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, to justify ‘some of the biggest transport contradictions in London’s history’ – following what they feel is a ‘discriminatory’ plan to charge motorcyclists for using the eco-friendly option of powered two wheelers (PTWs).

London’s Regional Rep, Tim Fawthrop, called Khan’s comments about motorcycles in a letter to Conservative MP (now Minister) Kelly Tolhurst ‘extraordinary and discriminatory.’ Tim says ‘in his reply to Ms Tolhurst, Mayor Khan states that charging users of older bikes £12.50 a day will – and I’m quoting his words directly here – deter the use of older vehicles, including those with highly polluting two-stroke engines. Doesn’t he realise that these bikes often do more than 120 miles per gallon, and produce far fewer emissions than many exempt vehicles? He doesn’t offer a single data source for his claims yet the poorest workers in London who depend on older motorcycles to get to, say, City Hall to clean his office, and whose commute currently costs about £1.20 a day, will pay an extra £12.50 every day to him and his authority – for the privilege of emptying his bin. That’s not just wrong, it’s disgusting. So, I’ve got three questions for him:

1 Why are riders of older, small-capacity bikes being charged when other forms of transport, e.g. taxis, which produce considerably higher emissions with a single occupant, aren’t? We’re not asking for taxis to be charged – only for a level playing field.

2 Why does the Mayor want to force riders onto a public transport system that will expose them to up to eight times more particulate matter, according to publicly available research, than using private transport such as a motorbike, when the whole purpose of the change is meant to be environmental and health related?

3 Will Khan compensate the thousands of low-paid workers using small, older motorbikes because it’s all they can afford, and what scheme will he be setting up to pay the difference in cost between cheap, older bikes and expensive public transport?

If he can’t answer these questions satisfactorily, he’ll be proving that this tax on older bikes is discriminatory and a social injustice that could seal his political fate at the next Mayoral election. MAG is asking all riders to contact the Mayor and ask these three questions. Please also contact your MP to challenge Mr Khan. The lack of understanding about basic transport theory in which motorcycles, regardless of age or size, reduce net congestion and pollution, is something which should concern all London citizens, not just bikers.’

MAG urgently requests you to make your views known before 28th February 2018 online, at:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/?cid=airquality-consultation

Contact MAG at 01926 844 064 or central-office@mag-uk.org


ENDS



Notes to editors

Reference to particulate matter research:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/people-who-use-tube-exposed-to-eight-times-as-more-air-pollution-than-those-who-drive-to-work-a3467006.html


Letter from Kelly Tolhurst MP to MAG South East Regional Rep, Steve Mallett

Dear Mr Mallett

Following your correspondence and my enquiry to the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, I have now received the attached response regarding the inclusion of powered two-wheelers in the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ).

I note from this response that Mr Khan has no plans to exempt motorcycles from the ULEZ or the current daily charge for those motorcycles that do not meet the emissions requirements. However, I also see that he is consulting on proposals to expand the ULEZ to the North and South Circulars for cars, vans and motorcycles which will be disappointing news.

While this is a consultation, I suggest you engage with the debate by following the link provided and adding your concerns. It may well be worth sharing this amongst your friends and family who share your concerns to ensure motorcyclists voices are sufficiently heard.

I appreciate this will not have been the response you will have hoped for but the consultation offers the opportunity to highlight your calls on a bigger level. Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Kelly

Kelly Tolhurst MP
Member of Parliament for Rochester & Strood
Tel: 0207 219 5387 – Westminster
Website: www.kelly4rochesterandstrood.com
House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA

____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 23 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the first proposal for the ULEZ back in 2014 to the present day i've attended three 'ask the mayor' sessions, tried to call into his monthly live radio Q&A show twice, responded to all three of the consultation phases and written letters to the Mayors Office and to TfL directly and I still haven't even had a reply, never mind a reason behind why older motorcycles are included in this fucktarded scheme.

Hang the sense of it. Ride without a plate. Destroy your local ANPR cameras. I don't care anymore.
____________________
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 23 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
MAG still haven't got that meeting with the junior deputy assistant backup transport secretary's temporary assistant, but by golly they're not letting up with the "Why, someone oughta..." press releases.

News from the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) wrote:

Khan’s bike tax will charge poorest workers £12.50 a day
for ‘privilege of emptying his bin’

This version: 2018 02 22 Embargo: IMMEDIATE

The Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) is challenging the Mayor of London with three clear questions regarding ‘extraordinary and discriminatory claims about motorcycling in London.’

MAG has challenged London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, to justify ‘some of the biggest transport contradictions in London’s history’ – following what they feel is a ‘discriminatory’ plan to charge motorcyclists for using the eco-friendly option of powered two wheelers (PTWs).

London’s Regional Rep, Tim Fawthrop, called Khan’s comments about motorcycles in a letter to Conservative MP (now Minister) Kelly Tolhurst ‘extraordinary and discriminatory.’ Tim says ‘in his reply to Ms Tolhurst, Mayor Khan states that charging users of older bikes £12.50 a day will – and I’m quoting his words directly here – deter the use of older vehicles, including those with highly polluting two-stroke engines. Doesn’t he realise that these bikes often do more than 120 miles per gallon, and produce far fewer emissions than many exempt vehicles? He doesn’t offer a single data source for his claims yet the poorest workers in London who depend on older motorcycles to get to, say, City Hall to clean his office, and whose commute currently costs about £1.20 a day, will pay an extra £12.50 every day to him and his authority – for the privilege of emptying his bin. That’s not just wrong, it’s disgusting. So, I’ve got three questions for him:

1 Why are riders of older, small-capacity bikes being charged when other forms of transport, e.g. taxis, which produce considerably higher emissions with a single occupant, aren’t? We’re not asking for taxis to be charged – only for a level playing field.

2 Why does the Mayor want to force riders onto a public transport system that will expose them to up to eight times more particulate matter, according to publicly available research, than using private transport such as a motorbike, when the whole purpose of the change is meant to be environmental and health related?

3 Will Khan compensate the thousands of low-paid workers using small, older motorbikes because it’s all they can afford, and what scheme will he be setting up to pay the difference in cost between cheap, older bikes and expensive public transport?

If he can’t answer these questions satisfactorily, he’ll be proving that this tax on older bikes is discriminatory and a social injustice that could seal his political fate at the next Mayoral election. MAG is asking all riders to contact the Mayor and ask these three questions. Please also contact your MP to challenge Mr Khan. The lack of understanding about basic transport theory in which motorcycles, regardless of age or size, reduce net congestion and pollution, is something which should concern all London citizens, not just bikers.’

MAG urgently requests you to make your views known before 28th February 2018 online, at:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/?cid=airquality-consultation

Contact MAG at 01926 844 064 or central-office@mag-uk.org


ENDS



Notes to editors

Reference to particulate matter research:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/people-who-use-tube-exposed-to-eight-times-as-more-air-pollution-than-those-who-drive-to-work-a3467006.html


Letter from Kelly Tolhurst MP to MAG South East Regional Rep, Steve Mallett

Dear Mr Mallett

Following your correspondence and my enquiry to the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, I have now received the attached response regarding the inclusion of powered two-wheelers in the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ).

I note from this response that Mr Khan has no plans to exempt motorcycles from the ULEZ or the current daily charge for those motorcycles that do not meet the emissions requirements. However, I also see that he is consulting on proposals to expand the ULEZ to the North and South Circulars for cars, vans and motorcycles which will be disappointing news.

While this is a consultation, I suggest you engage with the debate by following the link provided and adding your concerns. It may well be worth sharing this amongst your friends and family who share your concerns to ensure motorcyclists voices are sufficiently heard.

I appreciate this will not have been the response you will have hoped for but the consultation offers the opportunity to highlight your calls on a bigger level. Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Kelly

Kelly Tolhurst MP
Member of Parliament for Rochester & Strood
Tel: 0207 219 5387 – Westminster
Website: www.kelly4rochesterandstrood.com
House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA


I agree with their points, but they have achieved nothing so far. It's like they are shouting at the wind or something.
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 23 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vracktal wrote:
From the first proposal for the ULEZ back in 2014 to the present day i've attended three 'ask the mayor' sessions, tried to call into his monthly live radio Q&A show twice, responded to all three of the consultation phases and written letters to the Mayors Office and to TfL directly and I still haven't even had a reply, never mind a reason behind why older motorcycles are included in this fucktarded scheme.

Hang the sense of it. Ride without a plate. Destroy your local ANPR cameras. I don't care anymore.

I noticed the latest consultation was asking question about lorries, light vheicles and the expansion, so my comment was why are they even including motorcycles if they aren't even worth mentioning.

Also I told them the expansion was BS as it covered more north of the river and therefore peasant neighborhoods, where it was likely to impact people and businesses more.

But yeah I know it's a waste of time and they'll do whatever the f**k they want. The local council had a consultation and began work before it had even finished Rolling Eyes I guess if no one responds it's look we have no objections, if someone does it's look we've listened to (and ignored) your objections.

tl;dr burn them all...
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pooterer
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PostPosted: 01:18 - 24 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is "democracy" in a nutshell to be honest. Not surprised in the least.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:00 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo-echo-echo.

News from the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) wrote:

MAG calls for a sense of proportion on ULEZ enforcement

This version 2018.02.27 Embargo: IMMEDIATE

The Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) strongly urges Transport for London (TfL) to drop its victimisation of the poorest in society to no public or environmental benefit, and has called on TfL to demonstrate ‘a degree of moderation and common sense.’
MAG submitted a further response to TfL on the long-running threatened user charges for riders of older motorbikes. Machines built before around 2007 face a massive £12.50 per day charge in the capital. MAG’s Director of Communications & Public Affairs, Lembit Öpik, has appealed to TfL ‘to show a degree of common sense here. The category of riders using older machines is small, and they largely do so because they can’t afford newer bikes. It’s hugely socially unjust to hike up the cost of their commute by over 1,000% while drivers in cars like a new Rolls Royce pay nothing – even though these obviously generate more emissions than a 20-year-old 50cc four-stroke moped. We’ve made our points repeatedly – and with painstaking reference to science and social realities and the problem of getting to work at unsociable hours to do low-paid jobs. TfL can still do the right thing and recognise that they’re simply punishing those least able to pay more for public transport or for a newer motorbike.

‘Remember, there’s no benefit to the environment. These bikes produce almost no pollution and reduce congestion, thereby reducing ‘secondary’ pollution. Forcing them off the road increases pressure on over-loaded public transport, or drives these citizens out of work altogether. MAG has presented TfL with a moderate and well reasoned case but we have received no indication that they are listening.

The MAG response is available here:

https://wiki.mag-uk.org/images/8/8f/CAZ_2017_02_26.pdf


The consultation ends on 28th February 2018, but please continue to make your concerns known directly to the Mayor at:

https://www.london.gov.uk/contact-us-form

Contact MAG at 01926 844 064 or central-office@mag-uk.org

ENDS

____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, they just keep firing out press releases for Roger to post on a forum.

Is that their great plan?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx1138 wrote:
So, they just keep firing out press releases for Roger to post on a forum.

Is that their great plan?


What else can they do?

Call for a rally to freeze the centre of Londonistan? It just pisses off everyone else who doesn't give a shit about bikes.

At least they are trying to do something.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 28 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
At least they are trying to do something.

Trying and failing, as - and I stand ready to be corrected - they always do in London, nationally, and at a European level.

Some provincial groups have managed to get bike access to provincial bus lanes. Someone (MAG and BMF, both claim credit) got tiddlers allowed across the old Forth Road Bridge.

But what have Nice Employer Ltd actually achieved in the past 20 years? Or, rather, what have their national members' subs paid for, other than petrol and Euro-jolly beer farts for the MAG top brass?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 01 Mar 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I see that https://www.facebook.com/weridelondon/ had a rage ride yesterday cancelled due to snowpocalypse.

Aw, bless, they had a countdown and a snow contingency plan and everything.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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