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Lord Percy
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Joined: 03 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:


Lord Percy wrote:

Well I wasn't necessarily going down that road but for the joy of debate I'll at least remind you that most advanced nations have special forces, attack groups etc, all of whom sign an official secrets act, and many of whom would love to be involved in all kinds super-secret covert operations. "Like the movies innit."

And yet completely fail to knock off individuals without leaving a trail, so I ask again how would the west gas a load of civilians. Is this the work of a clandestine organisation independent of Trump? Or is he risking his new presidency just 'because'?


You're the one who suggested it was a false flag attack by our own people, I'm just going with the debate Very Happy

Quote:
And yet completely fail to knock off individuals without leaving a trail,


But there isn't a trail. Nobody knows who used the sarin gas. Nobody has even found out conclusively who did it before in 2013. Of course everyone over here says it was our enemies. But here's what Putin had to say:

Quote:
No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists.


But then again, he would say that. Just like our side would of course say the opposite.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Memetics begin....
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M.C
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Joined: 29 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:

You're the one who suggested it was a false flag attack by our own people, I'm just going with the debate Very Happy

Eh?

Quote:
Nobody knows who used the sarin gas. Nobody has even found out conclusively who did it before in 2013. Of course everyone over here says it was our enemies. But here's what Putin had to say:

Quote:
No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists.


But then again, he would say that. Just like our side would of course say the opposite.

Russia are known for deliberately bamboozling their own people, watch RT for 5 minutes. It's clear who shot down the plane over Ukraine but in this age of tin foil hat internet conspiracists, you only need a half arsed denial, no evidence to back-up your stance and the conspiracy theories start.

Occam's razor ffs Mad
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:

You're the one who suggested it was a false flag attack by our own people, I'm just going with the debate Very Happy

Eh?



All I ever said was that the sarin gas attack was rather conveniently pinned on Assad the very moment it happened.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
Obvious proxy war.

So the Syrian rebels are engaging in their own proxy war?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reminder: only one of the 4 major factions in Syria is snackbar.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Reminder: only one of the 4 major factions in Syria is snackbar.


It is quite a convoluted mess.

Back to the conspir... I mean theories

https://original.antiwar.com/porter/2016/09/23/war-assad-regime-not-pipeline-war/
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Loui5D
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Reminder: only one of the 4 major factions in Syria is snackbar.


Would that be the Syrian peoples front or the peoples front of Syria?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Obvious proxy war.

So the Syrian rebels are engaging in their own proxy war?


Russia backs Assad, therefore US backs 'the rebels' (including the enemy ISIS Thinking ).

Obvious proxy war is extremely obvious.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
The fact the west want Assad gone's no secret. Saying the US back the rebels is too simplistic, they've given (some of) them weapons, whilst fighting against ISIS, with all sides taking a pop at each-other every so often.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well the US and Russia have both tried and failed to take Afghanistan in fairly recent history, so to me it stands to reason that this is all part of a very similar game.

The US probably don't care about being properly chummy with any rebels or ISIS, buy they have to do something to make sure Russia isn't the only major state in there when everything is destroyed peace is restored and foreign development rebuilding can begin.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://southfront.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Screenshot_12.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Conceivably the goal is to keep the factions balanced so that they stay in Syria slaughtering each other tit-for-tat rather than one lot throwing in the towel and metastasising.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://i.imgur.com/DWUwgBQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/r11N8Rs.jpg

https://imgur.com/a/j3ovM
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://keepsake-stables.com/Images/Halloween/Witch-Stirring%20Pot.gif
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Sload
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
BBC interview with ex Syria Ambassador https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU5taO5vRDo
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 07 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sload wrote:
BBC interview with ex Syria Ambassador https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU5taO5vRDo


Heh, that was fantastic. Bloody annoying, rational alternative opinions, working their way onto the public domain, how dare they!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:53 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scott Adams points out why Trump did it.

Solves his Russian puppet problem.
Solves his credibility problem (bombing camel jockeys is Presidential as far as Middle Murca is concerned).
Positions himself for China / North Korean negotiations.
It will give Iran something to think about too.
Makes a Syrian safe zone more achievable.
Improves Israel's security.

All of which apply regardless of who did it. It is very plausible that it was self-snackbar propaganda, with the cameras primed and ready to roll. If Assad were that bumblingly incompetent, it's hard to see how he would still be in power.

It's peculiar to be getting political analysis from a cartoonist, but I find the argument compelling, rather than the source.
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
The scenarios.
Assad did it, open and shut case.
Assad did a bombing raid and hit an arms dump containing CW, including Sarin.
The Syrian opposition faked it to entangle the US in support.

I'm not convinced that the opposition forces could wait for an air raid, then accurately target that area, right at the time the bombs were dropping, with some form of CW ordinance. On the face of it, not very credible.

An arms dump was hit. Maybe there was an arms dump... containing Sarin? Maybe, but surely there would be more ordinance in such a store, no evidence of secondary explosions, just the bombing run.

There is no doubt that the 'winners' in this situation are the Syrian opposition. I can see no reason for Assad needing to use CW, he has more than the upper hand militarily.

So, on balance, it does appear 'more likely' that this was a staged event, although that level of organisation is a little mind boggling. I don't know which gives me cause for more concern, Assad running amok or the opposition willing to sacrifice so many of its own.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
If Assad were that bumblingly incompetent, it's hard to see how he would still be in power.

Eh? Running a country that's at war with itself?

All part of the conspiracy/propaganda machine: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39500947
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Assad was making in roads to an end game here. All the US has done is drag it out even longer. If Assad is overthrown, who are we expecting to take over, other than ISIS?


I do wish you'd stop slurring the moderate Syrian rebels so much. They've been engaged in a long and drawn out struggle for democracy against that barbaric and brutal dictator Assad. I'm sure someone in the bowels of the Pentagon has the legitimate government of Syria all ready to roll out when necessary, with a democratic figurehead that will please those in Washington DC, Tel Aviv and those wonderfully knowledgeable and enlightened citizens of Hollywood. Then it's business as usual and we can start spreading democracy to that brutal illegitimate regime in Iran.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 08 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
...and as if by magic Old Saltradamus sees an image in his Kristol Ball.

https://i.imgur.com/AgRzLoR.jpg
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 7 years, 12 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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