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ZX-7R |
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Vracktal |
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Vracktal World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:34 - 17 Apr 2017 Post subject: |
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Yup, can't remember where I saw the article but I believe the yearly motorcyclist day of rope motorcyclist safety awareness campaign week is upon us again, just in time for the nice weather.
The police have already posted this year's snuff porn piece as well which usually heralds it beginning. ____________________ 2007 BMW R1200R: On road
2009 BMW G650X Challenge: On road
1975 Norton Commando 850: Off road, awaiting recommissioning |
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ZX-7R |
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wristjob |
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wristjob World Chat Champion
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Posted: 20:15 - 17 Apr 2017 Post subject: |
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thats a really old clip to roll out.
also sexing it up with 170mph speed kills.
even though the crash was at about 100 mph and wasnt entirely the riders fault.
i realise the clip is edited to show how bad the riding was but it was quite bad |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 20:31 - 17 Apr 2017 Post subject: |
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I had this argument with a retired police inspector at a dinner party once....
In principle, you MUST stop if indicated to do so by a UNIFORMED police officer.... anyone else, in 'theory' you may happily ignore.
That uniformed officer 'should'... and that 'should' is where practice starts to depart drastically from principle.... but that officer 'should' have 'reasonable cause' to "impede your progress on the queens highway"... which is the counter to a uniformed coppa's right to stop you, because again, 'in principle' impeding traffic on the queens highway', is an offence... dating back to the dick-Turpin era, and what they hung most highway-men for, in fact, as they couldn't specifically prove 'theft' if they caught them before they actually stole anything or shot any-one!
Without 'reasonable cause', actually for an awful lot, a police officer actually has very very few 'rights' above and beyond any other civilian to do very much about anything at all.. let alone stop some-one driving along the road.... which without reasonable cause IS actually an offence on their part.
Hence, if stopped, first question to uniformed police officer, should be "Hello, officer, why have you stopped me?". They 'should', in principle, answer you and provide their 'reasonable cause'....
"Well, maybe you could tell me why you THINK I have stopped you?" is not an answer; that's fishing, but lots fall for it.... how you handle that is up to you... but best advice I can offer is stay shtumm... you have the right to remain silent... right up to the point that they tell you what they think you done wrong, and beyond, if you so wish! And its THEIR job to tell you what the crime is, not your's to admit guilt before you even start and save them doing their job of deterring and detecting crime, and providing evidence of that to the courts! Remember, being 'stupid' or 'ignorant' is in itself not illegal..... or, err.. I think I'll take my own advice ans stay shtumm at that point.. (although I DID at a party many years ago, get away with refusing police entry to the premises whilst holding back a chap yelling "Kill the Pigs" at the door, with the line, "Err, assaulting a police officer may be an offence, but insulting one one ISN'T, so, unless I invite you in, or you have due cause or a warrant, GOOD NIGHT!" and shut the door!)
"Just a routine stop-check" is NOT strictly a 'reasonable cause'..
"We are doing an awareness campaign (or other 'initiative') and are stopping drivers to ask/talk/suggest" is not strictly a reasonable cause.
Other similar 'reasons' of that nature to justify 'random stop checks' are NOT strictly reasonable cause. And you are entirely at liberty to respond "Well, sorry officer, I am trying to get to {wherever} by {some time} and I really dont want to be late or exceed the speed limit, so sorry, but no, I would NOT like to stop and chat to you about your {whatever initiative offered} and would like to be on my way, as is my legal right, to NOT have my progress illegally impeded on the queens highway......" at your own risk.... that they will suggest your 'evasion' of their 'initiative' made them suspect you were hiding something and that then offered them notionally reasonable cause.... like I say, principle and practice are only loosely related....
Which is where my ex-inspector dinner companion started, as he imbibed more and more malt, to get rather more agitated, insisting that the police DO have the right to stop any-one anywhere, any time, any place for whatever they like...... because practice is subject to application and interpretation, and exploiting the ONE power they have to stop traffic, they can pretty much side step the matter of actually having to have a proper actually reasonable reason to do so.... they can have an utterly unreasonable one, and then fish for all they are worth....
I was actually 'stopped'... no, that is an understatement.. three, yes THREE police cars 'Sweeney swooped' me pulling into a petrol station for a pack of fags one night, many years ago.... when I greeted them with "Hello, officer, why have you stopped me?" the conversation got a little terse, and the officer replied, "We thought this car may be stolen"... told "No. No it's not. Has some-one reported MY car stolen?" resulted in a lot of stammering, and eventually "Well it's an XR2" (at the time one of the most stolen cars in the country... why I drove one... it was 'cheap' and I had a lot of NCB to let me insure it, which few could!)... as I recall it was about 11pm on a Saturday night, and I REALLY needed a fag, "Yes, I know that... I bought it. Says so on the log book" or similar glib retort was my reply (whilst biting back the urge to offer the sarcasm, "Yeah! Well spotted! I wouldn't have spotted that in BIG letters on the boot and the doors! I can see you are detective material!").. I recall a distinct pregnant pause and the silent grinding of mental cogs as the coppa thought of a way to progress this interrogation, before he offered, "Well, they get stolen a lot!"... to which I repeated, "Yes, they do."... and returned to listening to the silent cogs of thought, for a while before he added "and its not registered in this town".. I waited for him to continue, but nothing more was forthcoming and the noise of silent grinding mind cogs was becoming painful, so I offered, helpfully, "No, no it isn't"; at this point, a coppa from one of the other cars, who'd blocked in the petrol station exit, walked over to assist his young college and offer respite from his mental anguish.... whilst I waited patiently... and told him that if his unit wasn't needed they were leaving.... It gave the coppa a moment to compose himself, before he carried on, "So what are you doing here?" to which I helpfully replied "Talking to you!"... yeah, my patience was running low and I REALLY needed them cigarettes I'd popped out for! so under such deprivation I broke... "I WAS, visiting a friend, and I ran out of fags. anything else?", the pained expression of anguish and silent grinding of mental cogs returned, to fill a hiatus until he broke and offered "Yes, but you SMILED at us!"
Absolutely true; local school had had a few recent instances of kids setting fire to the porta-cabins, and as I drove past, had spotted a group of youths jump over the fence with what looked like a jerry can, when the cop-car came round the corner.... so I had smiled, thinking that the arsonists would get their comeuppance, NOT that coppa would see me smile and decide to call in a swoop squad to chase ME down!
Moral of the story... Don't smile at the police, if you anomalously are lead to believe they are actually going to do their real job....
I think I was probably still smarting from that one at the dinner-party with the retired inspector, actually...... he was right in practice, but wrong in principle..... but principle matters little when you are out numbered, by blokes with clubs and handcuffs!!
Just remember Ghandi.... passive resistance & obstreperous co-operation... ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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ZX-7R |
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____________________ Current Bike - 2000 ZX-7R |
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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 21:03 - 17 Apr 2017 Post subject: |
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Teflon-Mike wrote: | I had this argument with a retired police inspector at a dinner party once....
In principle, you MUST stop if indicated to do so by a UNIFORMED police officer.... anyone else, in 'theory' you may happily ignore.
That uniformed officer 'should'... and that 'should' is where practice starts to depart drastically from principle.... but that officer 'should' have 'reasonable cause' to "impede your progress on the queens highway"... which is the counter to a uniformed coppa's right to stop you, because again, 'in principle' impeding traffic on the queens highway', is an offence... dating back to the dick-Turpin era, and what they hung most highway-men for, in fact, as they couldn't specifically prove 'theft' if they caught them before they actually stole anything or shot any-one!
Without 'reasonable cause', actually for an awful lot, a police officer actually has very very few 'rights' above and beyond any other civilian to do very much about anything at all.. let alone stop some-one driving along the road.... which without reasonable cause IS actually an offence on their part.
Hence, if stopped, first question to uniformed police officer, should be "Hello, officer, why have you stopped me?". They 'should', in principle, answer you and provide their 'reasonable cause'....
"Well, maybe you could tell me why you THINK I have stopped you?" is not an answer; that's fishing, but lots fall for it.... how you handle that is up to you... but best advice I can offer is stay shtumm... you have the right to remain silent... right up to the point that they tell you what they think you done wrong, and beyond, if you so wish! And its THEIR job to tell you what the crime is, not your's to admit guilt before you even start and save them doing their job of deterring and detecting crime, and providing evidence of that to the courts! Remember, being 'stupid' or 'ignorant' is in itself not illegal..... or, err.. I think I'll take my own advice ans stay shtumm at that point.. (although I DID at a party many years ago, get away with refusing police entry to the premises whilst holding back a chap yelling "Kill the Pigs" at the door, with the line, "Err, assaulting a police officer may be an offence, but insulting one one ISN'T, so, unless I invite you in, or you have due cause or a warrant, GOOD NIGHT!" and shut the door!)
"Just a routine stop-check" is NOT strictly a 'reasonable cause'..
"We are doing an awareness campaign (or other 'initiative') and are stopping drivers to ask/talk/suggest" is not strictly a reasonable cause.
Other similar 'reasons' of that nature to justify 'random stop checks' are NOT strictly reasonable cause. And you are entirely at liberty to respond "Well, sorry officer, I am trying to get to {wherever} by {some time} and I really dont want to be late or exceed the speed limit, so sorry, but no, I would NOT like to stop and chat to you about your {whatever initiative offered} and would like to be on my way, as is my legal right, to NOT have my progress illegally impeded on the queens highway......" at your own risk.... that they will suggest your 'evasion' of their 'initiative' made them suspect you were hiding something and that then offered them notionally reasonable cause.... like I say, principle and practice are only loosely related....
Which is where my ex-inspector dinner companion started, as he imbibed more and more malt, to get rather more agitated, insisting that the police DO have the right to stop any-one anywhere, any time, any place for whatever they like...... because practice is subject to application and interpretation, and exploiting the ONE power they have to stop traffic, they can pretty much side step the matter of actually having to have a proper actually reasonable reason to do so.... they can have an utterly unreasonable one, and then fish for all they are worth....
I was actually 'stopped'... no, that is an understatement.. three, yes THREE police cars 'Sweeney swooped' me pulling into a petrol station for a pack of fags one night, many years ago.... when I greeted them with "Hello, officer, why have you stopped me?" the conversation got a little terse, and the officer replied, "We thought this car may be stolen"... told "No. No it's not. Has some-one reported MY car stolen?" resulted in a lot of stammering, and eventually "Well it's an XR2" (at the time one of the most stolen cars in the country... why I drove one... it was 'cheap' and I had a lot of NCB to let me insure it, which few could!)... as I recall it was about 11pm on a Saturday night, and I REALLY needed a fag, "Yes, I know that... I bought it. Says so on the log book" or similar glib retort was my reply (whilst biting back the urge to offer the sarcasm, "Yeah! Well spotted! I wouldn't have spotted that in BIG letters on the boot and the doors! I can see you are detective material!").. I recall a distinct pregnant pause and the silent grinding of mental cogs as the coppa thought of a way to progress this interrogation, before he offered, "Well, they get stolen a lot!"... to which I repeated, "Yes, they do."... and returned to listening to the silent cogs of thought, for a while before he added "and its not registered in this town".. I waited for him to continue, but nothing more was forthcoming and the noise of silent grinding mind cogs was becoming painful, so I offered, helpfully, "No, no it isn't"; at this point, a coppa from one of the other cars, who'd blocked in the petrol station exit, walked over to assist his young college and offer respite from his mental anguish.... whilst I waited patiently... and told him that if his unit wasn't needed they were leaving.... It gave the coppa a moment to compose himself, before he carried on, "So what are you doing here?" to which I helpfully replied "Talking to you!"... yeah, my patience was running low and I REALLY needed them cigarettes I'd popped out for! so under such deprivation I broke... "I WAS, visiting a friend, and I ran out of fags. anything else?", the pained expression of anguish and silent grinding of mental cogs returned, to fill a hiatus until he broke and offered "Yes, but you SMILED at us!"
Absolutely true; local school had had a few recent instances of kids setting fire to the porta-cabins, and as I drove past, had spotted a group of youths jump over the fence with what looked like a jerry can, when the cop-car came round the corner.... so I had smiled, thinking that the arsonists would get their comeuppance, NOT that coppa would see me smile and decide to call in a swoop squad to chase ME down!
Moral of the story... Don't smile at the police, if you anomalously are lead to believe they are actually going to do their real job....
I think I was probably still smarting from that one at the dinner-party with the retired inspector, actually...... he was right in practice, but wrong in principle..... but principle matters little when you are out numbered, by blokes with clubs and handcuffs!!
Just remember Ghandi.... passive resistance & obstreperous co-operation... |
yup, I got stopped 3 nights in 7, on my KMX 125 until it seemed just about every police officer in the town had stopped me at least twice
sometimes they'd give a reason, sometimes not, one that sticks in the mind it was raining stair rods, and I was riding at 20mph in a 30 and they asked me why I was going so slowly.
worked over time, evening shift, 7 days a week straight for 6 months or so and finished work at around 11pm
Still, it was a very nickable bike back in the day I suppose |
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ZX-7R |
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Rogerborg |
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Keir |
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Keir World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:10 - 17 Apr 2017 Post subject: |
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i don't get why people get so worked up about being stopped by police. its my bike, I have tax, insurance, mot and wasn't riding like too much of a dick generally - If I was and I got caught, well I knew the risk when I did it. they can inspect my bike, check out my licence, check my aftermarket exhaust is notified to my insurance co or whatever.
in the times ive been stopped ive been away again in about 2 minutes. hardly a massive deal ____________________ Current : '08 Yamaha FZ1s
Previous: '99 Honda CBR 600FX, 03 ZX636 B1H, 99 Fazer 600 (red), 02 GSX-R 600 K2, 00 SV650s (red), 2008 ZX10R, 97 Bandit 1200N, 04 ZX6RR K1H, 04 GSX-R 1000, 98 Fazer 600 (gold), 05 Madness 110 Pit bike, 04 CR125R, 00 SV650s (black), 06 KTM 625 SMC, 99 SRAD 600 track bike, 03 SV650, 98 Bandit 1200N, Bandit 600SY, 03 GSX-R 600 K3, 01 GSX-R 600, 01 Fazer 600 (black), VFR 400 NC30 x3, 78 Honda Dream, 00 Speedfight 50 |
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
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wristjob World Chat Champion
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wristjob World Chat Champion
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 01:11 - 18 Apr 2017 Post subject: |
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Kickstart wrote: | How regularly are you happy to be pulled up? How aggressively towards you are you prepared for the police to drive before pulling you up? |
I wouldn't say I was ever particularly 'happy' getting stopped... but it got to be such a regular occurrence in the XR2 I tolerated it as part of the routine, like checking the oil!
I drove that car for about five years in the mid 90's... I think I worked out that I got stopped on average, just about once a month in the damn thing!!! (probably more often than I checked the oil TBH!) I'd had an MG Metro before that, for a similar five years and drove it like an utter idiot most of the time, and got stopped about five times total!!!! Once actually by a beat bobby when I pulled up at a cash point, who went to pains to tell me that the 30mph speed limit didn't apply to roundabouts
Another was for doing about 70 on the ring-road in I think Bradford, and cutting up a police car, with the little bother, aged about twelve trying to give me directions! sort of deserved that one! But was let off pleading "KIDZ!"
Most amusing was coming home from work one evening, though and the anti-roll bar finally wore through the hydro-gas suspension balance pipe, so it sort of gradually sunk, until I was looking at the sky through the windscreen.....
Coppa who stopped me, thought I was nicking bricks of a local building site, and kept asking me what I had in the boot! 'Nothing' didn't placate him, so he asked again... and again, so, eventually I thought really hard, and said, "err.. a spare wheel, a jack, probably a wheel brace, maybe a can of tyre weld" which got a "You being sarcastic sonny" rebuke... and another request to tell him what was in the boot... "Oh-Kay... I'll open it and we can have a look!" STILL didn't stop him, he insisted he didn't want to LOOK in the boot, he wanted me to tell him... "Nothing" was NOT an acceptable answer... so I said "Ok, its a fair cop, its the unrecovered proceeds of the Brinks-Matt bullion heist"... there was a stunned silence, whilst he tried work out the odds of this being more sarcasm, or a real career defining 'bust'... before he decided it was worth opening the boot to settle the matter... and found it empty... bar a spare wheel, jack, wheel brace a can of tyre weld, and ISTR a handy tube of hand cleanser! He stared into the void, lost for words for some while before stammering "It's, it's, it's EMPTY!" and finding it utterly incomprehensible that the back suspension could be flattened with nothing in the boot..... the explanation "Its a Metro" didn't help!
Remarkably had little issue on the bikes.
At 17 I had a DT50, which I didn't need L-Plates for, and could carry pillions.. Other lads with fifties reportedly got pulled over three or four times a week! But despite all my best endevours to answer local plods possible grievances about pillions and L-Plates with the new full licence I was so proud of, I never got a pulled once on the ruddy thing in the time I had it!
I had the AR125 for almost three years through uni, and I think I got pulled about three or four times on the thing; once for decking the pegs round Gosford St roundabout at about 60 11pm one night, the rest when the ruddy tail lamp bulb blew!!
I don't recall having any real issues on the VF.. I think I got stopped twice on that, both for speeding....
Doing the 'runs' like Matlock or the Fiddle, when they started these 'initiatives' what? Twenty years ago? did note the proliferation of road-side units with radar guns, or randomly stopping bikes at the end of NSL zones.... but cant say I was ever impeded by any... sports-bike riders did seem to bear the brunt of their attentions....
Wasn't until I got the 750 ten years back, which, when I got it, had a rather dire cam-moo-flage sort of arctic camouflage come fresian survival special sort of paint job, I got pulled just riding the damn thing home, and then twice more in a week; each time, "just want to check this 'thing' is taxed!", which prompted me to give it a lick of fresh paint, and I DON'T actually think I have been pulled on the thing ever since!
So, once a month, is tolerable, twice a week, obviously isn't!
But I cant say my experience has supported the idea they pick on bikers grumble very much. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Enduro Numpty Could Be A Chat Bot
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Old Thread Alert!
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