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General Election: 8th June 2017

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M.C
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
dodsi wrote:
M.C wrote:

So pauper should be quiet? I am in awe of your rented Skoda and interest only mortgage actually.


I feel inverted snobbery is at play here, and now you are extending that perception out onto other things. What would make you assume that I would have an interest only mortgage? Because I lease a car?

Should I extend the same assumptions on you? Let's try...

I am in awe of your dads 'Cor Blimey' trousers and profession in the sanitary and waste disposal services.

You said you barely make a dent in your mortgage, you'd be better off diverting funds away from meh eurobox into that Wink And really? Laughing I've probably got more money than you in terms of savings and assets I actually own.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, how much are you paying in rent, and in what area?

Persuade us with facts.
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dodsi
Dirty Carny



Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

You said you barely make a dent in your mortgage, you'd be better off diverting funds away from meh eurobox into that Wink And really? Laughing I've probably got more money than you in terms of savings and assets I actually own.


Firstly I am not going to get into a willy waving contest on the internet with someone I don't know.

It is true, that our regular mortgage payments (because we are in year 2 of it) basically pay off a pathetically small amount of equity each month. What I do not share is other decisions/actions we are making around this. If a thread came up where it was relevant then I may - here and now it's simply not appropriate.

But you carry on passing these judgements and assumptions based on 1 thing you know about me - I lease one of my cars. By extension does that mean I own nothing and buy everything in such a manner?

There is probably a point I could make about you renting your home? However...

It's not going to make either of us look good if we carry on this chain of conversation is it?

However, on topic- you could answer rogers question.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
dodsi wrote:


However, on topic- you could answer rogers question.


Actually this topic is about the general election in June Very Happy
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
dodsi wrote:


However, on topic- you could answer rogers question.


Actually this topic is about the general election in June Very Happy


Embarassed oh yeah... Laughing

Shifty Shifty
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
dodsi wrote:
However, on topic- you could answer rogers question.

Actually this topic is about the general election in June Very Happy

And whether cuts in welfare under the Tories have actually resulted in council house inhabitants paying the same as private sector renters in that area.

How much and where?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:


Average weekly social housing rent where I live is £80 for a 2 bed semi. The biggest employer in my local area pays NMW at the highest age category for the basic proles on a 40 hour week. Works out at about £13,900 after deductions?

Yearly rent is £4,160 @ £80*52. That's round about 30% to me. If you consider the council tax, call it £20 a week, that's closer to 40%. Doesn't sound all that good to me.


What percentage of earnings do you think people pay in the real world?

An average 3 bed semi is around £200K now.


Oh, I thought we were discussing rental, not buying?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
We're apparently not discussing anything remotely factual.

I'm fairly close to drawing a conclusion that even under the Tories, rent for council properties is still a sweetheart deal versus the local private sector.

Which would be a pity, but if the numbers were truly persuasive, why not let them persuade?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Last edited by Rogerborg on 11:32 - 19 May 2017; edited 1 time in total
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
So your mother had you when she was around 50 did she?

Where did I say I was 16? It was an example that even a kid at 16 (starting at ~16k) would be in the top bracket.


Quote:
Bollocks, you're a working adult playing hard done by because you're having to pay way, way under market rent, rather than living for free off my tax money.

If you didn't still live with mummy, rent for your own place would be a damn site more than you're paying now. Be grateful that your household's rent is being subsidised by the state, even after telfty % increases, bringing the figure almost to way less than market value.

Except it isn't, but you're so narrow minded nothing's going to change your opinion that you're paying for everyone in social housing (regardless of their circumstances).

dodsi wrote:

Firstly I am not going to get into a willy waving contest on the internet with someone I don't know.

Because you'll probably lose? Smile

Quote:
There is probably a point I could make about you renting your home? However...

You already have.

Quote:
It's not going to make either of us look good if we carry on this chain of conversation is it?

You mean in addition to routinely bringing up a topic we discussed (at great length) ages ago?

Rogerborg wrote:
And whether cuts in welfare under the Tories have actually resulted in council house inhabitants paying the same as private sector renters in that area.

How much and where?

I said I have no problem but we've gone way off topic. Anyone who remotely gives a shit can see the Tories have attacked welfare and workers rights during their time in charge (mainly in a coalition government I might add).

They'll get back in with an even stronger majority and we'll return to the wonderful years of the 80s/90s, where life was brilliant if you were wealthy, and total shit if you were poor(er).
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
I said I have no problem but [problem]

It would have been quicker to say how much and where.

M.C wrote:
Anyone who remotely gives a shit can see the Tories have attacked welfare and workers rights during their time in charge

How could we see this without data? Reality should be at the core of informed political debate. Rhetoric is cheap.

I honestly have no idea if you're hard done by under the Tories, or still enjoying a great deal.

Your resolute reticence only inclines me to believe that it's the latter though.

How much and what postcode?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
I honestly have no idea if you're hard done by under the Tories, or still enjoying a great deal.

Your resolute reticence only inclines me to believe that it's the latter though.

How much and where?

You do, you have made your opinions perfectly clear. I'm not going to get into this because you'll find a yuppy new build locally and go seeeeee, bargaaaain, ignoring my circumstances (which's closer to lodger) and the immediate area (which I'd rather not advertise online).

I pay the same as a fellow BCF'er who lives locally (in a 1 bed flat), then I pay the same as a work mate who lives locally in a bedsit/HMO, I also pay the same as another workmate who has a council flat in a much nicer area.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
you have made your opinions perfectly clear.

They could be changed, with the appropriate evidence.

If you're not going to say, we'll have to go by what you've implied, which is that you're paying about £350 a month (30% of take home from £16K assuming you accounted for tax and NI) and you're inside the M25.

Average rent across London is £740 per month, and that's per room, not per property. Bare minimum is SE2 Abbey Wood, at £506. I'm guessing (because I have to) that you're somewhere in SE, where average rents are £699 a month, or about twice what you're paying.

(Q1 2017 source).

You can continue to berate me for my ignorance of your situation, or you can persuade me how dire it is by clarifying it. It's really your choice.

At the moment, it's reading like "London is shit, I hate it, Tories are in power, therefore their fault".
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is why I'm not going to play your stupid game, the fellow BCF'er pays £400 (slightly strange circumstances I'll admit (lived there a long time)), the work colleague pays the same even though it's 20% below your 'bare minimum'. And both of those aren't on a council estate most people are too scared to go on.

We're just going round in endless circles, it's a nationally set rate, brummie M.C will be paying the same even though local rents are a lot lower. Try to see the bigger picture Praying
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think MC struggles to quote actual facts and figures in any debate - just ignores some parts of your posts, mis quotes others and assumes more to back up his 'opinion'.

It was the same with all of his 'discussions at length' - reality it is just someone repeating themselves trying to get some sort of sense out of him.

And I really am not getting into said willy waving contest as it's just crass.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
So you're ignoring the post above with figures, and that I've stated exactly what I pay, which you can find out from every council website in England Rolling Eyes

...and then you're the one not wanting to post figures Laughing I guess cos as is often the case on here, you won't look like such a big successful bollocks when you do.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
fellow BCF'er pays £400

And you pay "the same" £400. OK, you didn't deduct tax/NI from your £16K example.

You won't say where, so I have no choice but to assume it's in an area where room rents are at or above the £740 London average. If they were lower, you'd have said, right?

So it seems to me that you're enjoying at least £340 a month in free rent. Possibly much more.

If not, why don't you take your £400 and spend it on renting these nicer private flats that you are convinced exist?

I genuinely, truly, don't understand why you think you're entitled to the sweet deal that you're enjoying or why you blame the Tories because it's not even sweeter.

What is that you expect from them? That your mum (the tenant) can take in adult lodgers (which is what you are) and charge them rent without any reduction in her benefits? Effectively, the ability to run a B&B in a taxpayer provided property.

Help me to understand your grievance. I'm genuinely not trying to provoke you, I just find your attitude towards entitlement utterly baffling.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:56 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
M.C wrote:
fellow BCF'er pays £400

And you pay "the same" £400. OK, you didn't deduct tax/NI from your £16K example.

You won't say where, so I have no choice but to assume it's in an area where room rents are at or above the £740 London average. If they were lower, you'd have said, right?

So it seems to me that you're enjoying at least £340 a month in free rent. Possibly much more.

If not, why don't you take your £400 and spend it on renting these nicer private flats that you are convinced exist?

I genuinely, truly, don't understand why you think you're entitled to the sweet deal that you're enjoying or why you blame the Tories because it's not even sweeter.

What is that you expect from them? That your mum (the tenant) can take in adult lodgers (which is what you are) and charge them rent without any reduction in her benefits? Effectively, the ability to run a B&B in a taxpayer provided property.

Help me to understand your grievance. I'm genuinely not trying to provoke you, I just find your attitude towards entitlement utterly baffling.

It's calculated gross so I calculated it gross. You're doing exactly what I said would happen, taking some BS average. £700's what you pay for one of the yuppy new builds I was talking about. I never said it should be free, just that a single child shouldn't have to pay the lion share, which's not unreasonable.

I suppose when the mini Borg's are of working age you'll be getting them to cover most of the mortgage?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
taking some BS average.

That you know two people who are paying at the low end of the range doesn't alter the average. Which I'll have to assume is higher than £740 since you still won't disclose half of a postcode.

If nicer properties are available for £400, why haven't you moved into one?

I'm sorry to have to ask the same questions over and over, but they're begged by your answers.


M.C wrote:
a single child shouldn't have to pay the lion share

But... you're an adult, right? And your mum's a pensioner? Why do you still self-identify as a child?

This is the attitude that baffles me. Don't you want to pay what it takes in order to be head of your own household? How long are you wanting to live as a dependent?


M.C wrote:
I suppose when the mini Borg's are of working age you'll be getting them to cover most of the mortgage?

I'll be mortgage free in the next year or two. Beholden to no-one, dependent on no-one.

Oh, and I'll expect them to move out, or at a minimum to be putting every penny earned towards a deposit.

I don't particualrly want to generalise that the Tories are the party that empower adults, while Labour act as a surrogate parent to the professionally helpless and perpetually dependent. But you're making it darn easy to do so. Sad
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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JonB
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tomorrow's news: -

MC still breastfeeding from mum shocker as a result of the disgusting price of food.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
JonB wrote:
Tomorrow's news: -

MC still breastfeeding from mum shocker as a result of the disgusting price of food.


Bitty Smile
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
That you know two people who are paying at the low end of the range doesn't alter the average. Which I'll have to assume is higher than £740 since you still won't disclose half of a postcode.

If nicer properties are available for £400, why haven't you moved into one?

I'm sorry to have to ask the same questions over and over, but they're begged by your answers.

My (partial) postcode isn't even on your list. And as you keep ignoring it's a national rate it would have to be a national average wouldn't it?

Quote:
But... you're an adult, right? And your mum's a pensioner? Why do you still self-identify as a child?

I am my mums child am I not? I live at home do I not? Sorry if these definitions are baffling. There are reasons a [confusing term alert] child might have to live with their elderly parent, I'll let imagine what these are.

Quote:
I suppose when the mini Borg's are of working age you'll be getting them to cover most of the mortgage?
I'll be mortgage free in the next year or two. Beholden to no-one, dependent on no-one.

Oh, and I'll expect them to move out, or at a minimum to be putting every penny earned towards a deposit.

I don't particualrly want to generalise that the Tories are the party that empower adults, while Labour act as a surrogate parent to the professionally helpless and perpetually dependent. But you're making it darn easy to do so. Sad

What do you think I have done? I have a deposit saved up, I just need to move somewhere I can actually afford to buy (which means finding a new job etc.). You go on about scroungers and then ignore the policies which make work less attractive. You're a Tory, make sure to vote sharia May Thumbs Up

JonB wrote:
Tomorrow's news: -

MC still breastfeeding from mum shocker as a result of the disgusting price of food.

Sweet, you've stopped crying over Itchy tearing you apart and are back for more.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 19 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've never really taken Itchy seriously.

If I had, I'd be living in Outer Mongolia under a tin foil hat. By 2017 we would be building houses out of £50 notes after the most amazing hyperinflation.

Turns out, my house (that I pay in full for - at market rate, by the way) is built out of bricks and mortar.
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