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Super Spammer
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 Posted: 01:22 - 20 May 2017  Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: | Don't forget his initial whine was that the nasty Tories had increased the tiny, way under market value amount, he had to pay in rent towards his mummy's free, house by 80 million % in under 2 years.
Even when it was pointed out several times that his local Labour council actually set rent and rent increases.
He then started blaming those bastard Tories with non dependant deductions, even though it was shown that his local council decide the housing benefits and how much it should drop and how much should be paid by the non dependant worker in the household.
I mean, it's shit there apparently, but it's his home, so he can't leave, because it offers "security".
......otherwise known as "Bitty"  |
| Monkeywrencher wrote: | And the conservative government don't set your rent. the local authority has full freedom over that, they need to money for services and upkeep on social housing,
you wouldn't expect a private landlord to be forced to rent a property out at a loss or break even, so why should your landlord? you get the added benefit of the profit being spent on things you use. |
I give up trying to explain this to you. You have a government report explaining it was frozen under Labour, that the Tory coalition decided to raise it, every council in England charges the same rate and yet it's decided locally? |
You're whining about paying way under market rent, to live in your mums free house, paid for by all of us who put more in to the country than they take out.
How many Fuchs were you expecting for your ill placed "bloody Tories" oh look it's actually Labour rant?
"I used to live entirely on benefits and am outraged that the taxpayer, now I'm working, expects me to pay less than everyone else to live."
Zero Fuchs.
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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Posted: 07:58 - 20 May 2017  Post subject: |
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| JonB wrote: | I don't think anybody is questioning the wisdom of council housing/benefits. In fact they are the backbone of sensible, caring society. |
I question it. I'd gas the most unproductive and ungrateful. In a sensible, caring way.
Sadly, none of the current political parties share this view. They'd rather let more people climb on the Welfare Wagon while fewer pull it, because once you're lying back and enjoying the ride, you'll vote for for whomever promises not to kick you off.
Truth to tell, with two school-age offpsring, I'm probably walking beside it rather than riding or pulling. If I were a titan of industry like the Adam Aaronses, I'd feel mightily aggrieved, and do anything possible to avoid being mugged by the State or acting as an ersatz parent to my employees. Cooked books, tax avoision, outsourced staff, zero hours contracts with no benefits, whatever I could get away with.
That's why I'm dis-Mayed to read in the Tory manifesto about "a decent living wage and new rights and protections in the workplace", "rights and protections in the ‘gig’ economy" and even "worker representation on company boards". Are they bleedin' Marxists now?
"The strategy is not about picking winners, propping up failing industries, or bringing back old companies from the dead. It is about identifying the industries that are of strategic value to our economy and supporting and promoting them through policies on trade, tax, infrastructure, skills, training, and research and development".
Blimey, they didn't even pause for breath before contradicting themselves. Atos, Capita, G4S and Serco are now essentially psuedo-governmental bodies with an effective cartel monopoly over big contracts - how's that working out for us?
Honestly, it reads like a Blairite nuLabor manifesto. I would vote Monster Raving Loony over Tory.
We're heading down the French route - all of our major parties are various flavours of socialist. I discount UKIP as they're a dead party walking and haven't even managed to scrabble together a manifesto yet.
Where's the Greed Is Good party? I miss the 1980s. 
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Itchy
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| Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche...
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ScaredyCat
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Rogerborg
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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Lord Percy
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Itchy
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| Posted: 11:56 - 20 May 2017 Post subject: |
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https://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_regions_poorest_North_Europe.pdf
Quite a lot of poor regions are in the UK when considering comparable nations in terms of development.
(France, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Austria, Ireland, Sweden, Finland and Denmark).
This doesn't include Spain, Italy or Greece or Eastern Europe or overseas territories.
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| Ste |
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Ste
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Posted: 12:06 - 20 May 2017  Post subject: |
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Roger says 'productive'.
You change that to 'People who earn money'.
And then you change that to 'High earning'.
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Rogerborg
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Itchy
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| Falco |
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Falco
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| Posted: 12:09 - 20 May 2017 Post subject: |
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A major sticking point is figuring out what counts as useful activity, is managing a casino more or less inherently worthwhile than being a doctor? Is keeping money in circulation better than returning a working person to the labour force? The markets have no idea how to value labour and tend to use scarcity as a proxy for worth. Not that governments fare much better.
There are so many factors in play in these situations, it irritates me no end to see it reduced to "Taxes taxes taxes" vs "Back to the work house, sink or swim!".
I think MonkeyWrencher has it about right. Universal Basic Income so that no one literally starves to death in the streets (and so their children have the chance to do better than their parents) but it should be subsistence level rather than luxury. I would argue a working laptop/phone is no longer a luxury, they are part of basic navigation in today's world.
For a society to function there has to be some level of redistribution of wealth. Lower inequality generally leads to a happier (and more productive) populous. If you can't bear to be parted from any of the fruits of you labour (regardless of consequences), there are plenty of counties with only the semblance of a working state that might better suit the libertarian tendencies.
In spite of everything, I think the Lib-Dems about cover the middle ground, but as usual a vote for them is the very definition of a wasted vote.
None of the above is a great idea, but it's been talked about for as long as I have been voting, doesn't feel like its any closer to reality.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Itchy!
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Itchy
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Rogerborg
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Itchy
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 12:21 - 20 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Falco wrote: | For a society to function there has to be some level of redistribution of wealth. |
There is. It's called paying for goods and services that you want. Money can buy you happiness, but only if you spend it.
Forced redistribution is where it all goes wrong. Nanny State stealing half of more of what you make and passing (some) of that onto poors is the problem. Nanny doesn't know best. It supports people who make things that nobody actually want, like 'artists' and provide services that actually harm society like 'charities'.
Meanwhile we have less money to spend on what we do want, i.e. coke and hookers.
And despite their noises about low taxation, the Tories are just as keen on micromanaging the economy as all the other socialist parties.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 12:23 - 20 May 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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Ste
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 13:17 - 20 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Falco wrote: | But many millions of pounds are spent on art works, so clearly someone wants it. |
Some of it, yes. I'm aware that artists existed before the State started supporting them, which is rather my point - it's not necessary.
I'm referring to the £622 million a year of stolen money that's wasted on stuff that nobody does want to pay for. Oh, plus whatever Al Beeb spunks on cultural propaganda.
| Falco wrote: | Paying for goods and services isn't redistribution unless you think the market can infallibly set the cost of these things at their actual value. |
What value does anything have except what people are willing to pay for it?
I'm not even sure we're speaking the same language here. What do you mean by "actual" value if it's not the free market price? Who decides that, and why?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 340 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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