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The Wobbly Orange
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 16 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:


So you'd rather your taxes were used to buy and maintain nuclear tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles, and the submarines that fire them, instead of funding services like education and health which have extreme long term importance to any nation?


Hi there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Glad to help
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 16 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
We've been over this.

...

They'll never be used, or at least not in a way that anyone will be around to analyse afterwards.

That's why they've never been used, as it would result in everybody being deaded, so having someone like Corbyn who wouldn't even fire in retaliation makes it ineffective as a deterrent (which's what they're).

However if one nation had them and developed aspirations hitler stylee (ooh we're there already), you could use them as a pretty good surrender or be destroyed bargaining chip.

Whether or not Britain's a big enough player to need nuclear weapons' probably a better question.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 16 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wobbly Orange wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:


So you'd rather your taxes were used to buy and maintain nuclear tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles, and the submarines that fire them, instead of funding services like education and health which have extreme long term importance to any nation?


Hi there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Glad to help


Hi there.

Lord Percy wrote:

The use of trident as an example was a bit arbitrary. The main point was that those who dislike taxation should surely be just as annoyed that their money is still being thrown fully at things like nuclear armed subs, and almost the highest military expenditure in Europe, while useful things that are worth keeping in good order like healthcare, education etc are in varying forms of crisis. If I were a super-high-tax paying zillionaire I know what I'd rather see kept in shape, if I had to pick something for my forcibly stolen money to be spent on.


Glad to show you this was cleared up already.
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The Wobbly Orange
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 16 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:



However if one nation had them and developed aspirations hitler stylee (ooh we're there already), you could use them as a pretty good surrender or be destroyed bargaining chip.


Funnily enough the only time they have been used is when only one country had them. This is proof in practice of a deterrent.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 16 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wobbly Orange wrote:
Funnily enough the only time [nukes] have been used is when only one country had them. This is proof in practice of a deterrent.

Arrow Use of nuclear weapons by a nuclear armed state against a non-nuclear armed state: 1 (ish)
Arrow Use of nuclear weapons by a nuclear armed state against a nuclear armed state: 0

It's thin gruel on which to nurture the mythology that nukes make you safe from nukes.

The determinant seems me to be the willingness to use them.

I really do wonder what Sharia has written in those letters of last resort, because that's what actually matters.

Do you believe that she wrote "My legacy will be to order you to exterminate as many wogs as possible in bloody vengeance." ?

I rather suspect not. It's not her style, it wasn't Camœron's style, nor Bliars (he's more the Full Apocalypse messiah), and it's certainly not Comrade Corbyns.

Our deterrent is only as strong as our serving Prime Minister, and we've brewing weak tea in that urn.
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The Wobbly Orange
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 16 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You forgot the third option.

Arrow Use of nuclear weapons by a nuclear armed state against a non nuclear armed state when there were no other nuclear armed states.

The Soviets were preparing to move against Japan, I think the nuclear attack was to speed capitulation so the US could get all of that piece of the pie.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 16 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are they coming back for a second try?

I ask because I'm wondering what the relevance is to $(CURRENT_YEAR).
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 00:45 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Thought I'd check who's actually standing in my constituency: Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Green and UKIP. No monster raving loony types to vote for Crying or Very sad


I'm a bit late to the circus but if you believe that ANY of the above are not monster raving loony types then you are going to be sorely disappointed.
Politicians have one goal and if you think it's to further your interests then, sorry to disappoint Sir, you are the monster raving loony.
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The Wobbly Orange
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 18 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back a few pages

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
The Wobbly Orange wrote:
Why would voting myself and my friends out of a job be a good thing? That's a big part of the reason I vote Tory, to prevent that.


Redundancy payment, so you can do a Pimlico plumbers?


Perhaps it's not so bad actually

https://i.redditmedia.com/UbOj5cqBsBDpl3bMlf7EBO0j97JiiI23rJV-mTow18M.jpg?w=1024&s=106921336dda6ee88abd3546be56621b
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked
Oh boy, I bet its fun working there.

https://www.putlearningfirst.com/br/grape/metroworkers1.jpg
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owl10
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE. Trident.

Probably the biggest argument for it, is that it isn't all spent on one missile or one boat..

There's a whole host of supporting skills and industry that it , well, supports, from engineering all the way down to admin support functions, companies that sell it systems to the engineers etc etc

Wages get taxed, spent in local economies etc.

Okay, you could say spend it in education to start with, but none else wants to pay for academic education without real experience (ask Percy).

Sauce; anecdotal.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 03:30 - 04 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

owl10 wrote:


Sauce; anecdotal.


Is that similar to Sriracha? Laughing
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grr666
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PostPosted: 07:51 - 04 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
For a while at least they had a 100 year old working there.
Buster Martin
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 05 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm being selfish.

I don't have kids and don't see why I should pay for other peoples kids to be looked after while they go to work. Kids are a lifestyle choice. I chose motorcycles, nobody buys me a motorbike.

I don't use the fucking trains either. They are too expensive and too crap and they are better now than when they were nationalised.

I could go on and pick every one of the things Labour wants to do.

In essence, absolutely nothing Corbyn wants to bankrupt the country for decades into the future to pay for will be of any benefit to me whatsoever. It's like being back in the 70's but without the casual racism.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 05 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you planning to euthanise yourself when you're past working age, or will you be expecting my children to take care of you?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 05 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Are you planning to euthanise yourself when you're past working age, or will you be expecting my children to take care of you?


They'll be too busy looking at their wrist-phones.

I expect by the time I'm past working age, I'll have to make my own arrangements anyway because the state certainly wont be contributing. As such, I'm trying to keep hold of as much as I can now. Maybe we'll finally get robots who at least wont get fed up with my whinging?

The welfare state long ago stopped being a case of the current workers paying forwards for the care of the previous generation. It's become borrowing backwards onto the next generation.

If we vote for socialists, they'll just accelerate that process.

If it's genuinely a numbers thing, I can't see how come there is a shortage of housing? I really don't believe it.

In any case, there are far too many fucking people on this island as it is. Just visit anywhere south of Preston.

Also state jobs aren't real jobs, they don't generate growth or create anything, they just use up tax money in an ever decreasing spiral. That goes for the "jobs" supposedly generated by the nuclear weapons too. 100% of that money is coming from tax and you get nothing useful back to show for it. Certainly nothing worth more than you put in which is how jobs in the private sector work. It would be more effective if you just handed out the money spent on trident to people to sit doing nothing, it would put more of it back into the economy.

Actually, I'm really interested in how some of these garaunteed minimum income experiments turn out. We could cut out swathes of quangos and civil servants in one fell swoop.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 05 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Are you planning to euthanise yourself when you're past working age, or will you be expecting my children to take care of you?

Assuming the mini borgs are destined for a lifetime of strong tax contributions. With 14 years education, adding an extra 3-4 if they take up higher education, they could yet prove a really bad investment Wink
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 05 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

If it's genuinely a numbers thing, I can't see how come there is a shortage of housing? I really don't believe it.


I suspect it's due to urbanisation.

Jobs become increasingly city-based but nobody wants to build up.

End result is empty houses in the economic deadzones, and a sense of overcrowding in the places everyone wants/needs to work, being forced to take a house share among 5 people. Then they say we have a housing crisis, when really it's more like a population management crisis, and the question should be: "How do we stop everyone from clumping in the same place?" Answer: find ways to spread the economy around a bit, or face the music and make more high rises.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 05 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Assuming the mini borgs are destined for a lifetime of strong tax contributions.

Numbers on a computer don't get things done. The issue is hands available to produce versus mouths demanding to consume.

That's why all parties (barring UKIP, perhaps) are in favour of importing millions of low IQ uneducated burdens, in the hope that they can at least be persuaded to give sponge baths and spoon mush into mouths.

It's not something on which I'd like to bet the nation.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 05 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
M.C wrote:
Assuming the mini borgs are destined for a lifetime of strong tax contributions.

Numbers on a computer don't get things done. The issue is hands available to produce versus mouths demanding to consume.

That's why all parties (barring UKIP, perhaps) are in favour of importing millions of low IQ uneducated burdens, in the hope that they can at least be persuaded to give sponge baths and spoon mush into mouths.

It's not something on which I'd like to bet the nation.


At the same time as "immigration/birth rates are required for muh economy" we are also hearing "in just a couple of decades mass automation is going to make all the plebs, even professional-tier plebs redundant".

These two phrases would seem to be mutual exclusive so anyone who has more than a 5 minute frame of reference.
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 06 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Kin 'ell. I thought we'd been here in threads passim.
There (were) are 25 million or so 'baby boomers', all due to shuffle within the next ten-fifteen years. The way social care is heading its almost like a mass cull. 'Oh, but you are all living longer!' comes the screetch. Maybe, but the few extra years that the ordinary Joe gets, (as opposed to those rich enough to afford harvested organs) are hardly going to alter the numbers.
Where, just the hell, WHERE are these projected population growths heading anywhere up to 80 million coming from? Even the prodigiously producing Asians can't bang out that many little Jihadists.
I estimate that by 2025 /2030 our population will actually have dropped to below 60 mill, but, it will be of a mainly younger age, without the lead weight of the aged to support. Even with a robotically mechanised workforce, there will still be a need for the engineers to maintain and install, program and actually develop the artifacts they are making.
Its a different future, for sure, but not necessarily apocalyptic.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 06 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

2000 words of explanation.

https://www.indexmundi.com/graphs/population-pyramids/united-kingdom-population-pyramid-2016.gifhttps://www.indexmundi.com/graphs/population-pyramids/malaysia-population-pyramid-2014.gif
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Oneear
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 06 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The UK population is projected to increase by 9.7 million over the next 25 years from an estimated 64.6 million in mid-2014 to 74.3 million in mid-2039

The UK population is projected to reach 70 million by mid-2027

Assumed net migration accounts for 51% of the projected increase over the next 25 years, with natural increase (more births than deaths) accounting for the remaining 49% of growth

Over the 10 year period to mid-2024, the UK population is projected to increase by 4.4 million to 69.0 million. This is 249,000 higher than the previous (2012-based) projection for that year

The population is projected to continue ageing, with the average (median) age rising from 40.0 years in 2014 to 40.9 years in mid-2024 and 42.9 by mid-2039

By mid-2039, more than 1 in 12 of the population is projected to be aged 80 or over


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationprojections/bulletins/nationalpopulationprojections/2015-10-29

Apologies if it's been posted before, but fairly interesting - "Assumed net migration accounts for 51% of the projected increase" That seems an awful lot?

Anyway, slightly off topic. Carry on.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 06 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a very good reason why people vote Tory. Illness my arse!! If she hasn't been gagged then I'm a monkeys uncle.
Diane Abacus only has to speak on any subject (while rolling her big googly eyes to give the illusion of conscious thought)
to start costing labour votes. She's done more for the Conservatives than May has. Polarbear wil be laughing his arse off.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 06 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oneear wrote:
Anyway, slightly off topic. Carry on.

Interesting, but I think it is OT since all the major parties (possibly absent UKIP) have much the same mass immigration solution to that top heavy population "pyramid", based on the perverse notion that people are fungible.

Huh, I've just noticed that Borglets #1 and #2 are both in that narrow 10-14 bracket near the bottom. You're welcome. What were the rest of you doing for your country around 2002? Razz
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 319 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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