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Advice.. 125 or DAS*?

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greeeeno
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Advice.. 125 or DAS*? Reply with quote

Hi all,

Just looking for some advice on what i should do as basically im looking into getting a bike and was going to do my cbt and just get a 125 (honda cbf 125) but as someone i know pointed out that because i am 23 (24 in September) i would be better off waiting till after i turn 24, do the direct access course and consider a 250 as a 125 would get boring pretty quick. He has a cbr 250 which i think looks really nice also he says its fairly cheep to run too. Anyway i live around 7-8 miles from work and the fastest road i would be traveling on during my commute would be 50mph but i would like to be able to travel around on some of the nice roads around where i live which a 125 would after a few rides start to become a limitation (im told). Im certainly no speed freak and not looking too waste myself but i feel i would like a little more power in reserve to enjoy the riding experience. Any way thanks for reading and also if you have any recommendations on bikes feel free to let me know of any decent alternatives (budget i have is around 2/2.5k for a bike) many thanks.

Edit; just want to point out i have NOTHING against getting a 125 for at least the first year im really very happy do that n get some experience. I just recently passed my driving test and having spent loads of money doing that i realized i would in no way be able to insure a car! Which led me on to the idea of doing the cbt and getting a bike which is way cheaper and doable for me! (wish i never bothered with the car tbh!) currently i catch the bus everyday which is the only mode of transport i can compare to a bike and costs me more than a bike would and a mate of mine pointed out that i should wait till i can do das.. Either way i will be better informed after ive done my CBT like most of u have said! Anyway completely new to bike stuff so all the info you guys are giving is a big help! really appreciate it guys, thank you!


Last edited by greeeeno on 02:37 - 11 May 2017; edited 2 times in total
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MahatmaAndhi
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you're allowed to go bigger than a 125 (with DAS) then the sky's the limit. Why limit yourself to a 250 - which may also become boring (it depends on the bike.)
My ER5, for example, is 500ccs and boring. It can hit 100mph if I want it to. It'll get me to work and back on 60 and 70 mph roads with ease. It'll go through traffic no problem. But it's just dull.

I've just "downgraded" to a Burgman 400, which I've only ridden three times so far, but it's great fun. Time will tell if I change my mind.
For £2,000 you could get a lot of bike. And if you don't want to thump your [insert 600cc or whatever] up to a bajillion miles per hour, then you don't have to.
With your kind of budget, I'd personally be looking at something like a Kawasaki Versys but that's just because I like them.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a CBT and see if you enjoy it. It's good for 2 years and is a great experience just by itself.

If you get on well with the 125, see if you can blag a quick go on an A2 training bike, which will in practice be a 500cc+ bike.

Once you've mopped the jizz out of your undies, decide whether you want to wait until September to experience maximum jizz, or get your A2 done now.

Don't decide anything, or even think about bikes, until you've got a licence to ride one.


MahatmaAndhi wrote:
I've just "downgraded" to a Burgman 400, which I've only ridden three times so far, but it's great fun.

That's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike how I'd describe it.

Which illustrates that bikes (or scootays) are very subjective things, and you have to make your own mind up.

The only wrong decision is not to find out.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

No reason why you couldn't go for a bike in the 650 range as a first bike after DAS. You'll be riding one to pass your test anyway.

That said if you fancy something smaller and lighter then there's nothing wrong with that. There's plenty of fun to be had on smaller bikes. I actually find my 125 is more fun to ride on my short commute about town than my bigger bikes. A 250 would be ideal as they can easily maintain a real 70mph and can work overtakes on country roads. I'll probably replace my 125 with one at some point.

If, however, it will be your only transport then something bigger would be more comfortable and relaxed in crap weather and on longer/faster runs. As much as I enjoy my 125 I wouldn't want anything under 500cc as my only bike.
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greeeeno
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MahatmaAndhi wrote:
I'd personally be looking at something like a Kawasaki Versys but that's just because I like them.


Yeah i really like the look of those, will have to do more research on the types of bikes available after das, havent really looked into anything properly apart from in the 125s so thanks for that!
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greeeeno
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Do a CBT and see if you enjoy it. It's good for 2 years and is a great experience just by itself.

If you get on well with the 125, see if you can blag a quick go on an A2 training bike, which will in practice be a 500cc+ bike.

Once you've mopped the jizz out of your undies, decide whether you want to wait until September to experience maximum jizz, or get your A2 done now.

Don't decide anything, or even think about bikes, until you've got a licence to ride one.



Im sure i will enjoy it, im currently getting buses all over the place at the mo and just recently poured a lot of money at passing my driving test (lessons etc) however when i started looking at insurance quotes i really wish i saved that money and put it towards getting a bike sooner.. but like you said i think i will wait till after my cbt and make a desision then on whether to get a 125 or wait till i can do das and look at bikes available then, Thanks!
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greeeeno
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraggem wrote:
No reason why you couldn't go for a bike in the 650 range as a first bike after DAS. You'll be riding one to pass your test anyway.

That said if you fancy something smaller and lighter then there's nothing wrong with that. There's plenty of fun to be had on smaller bikes. I actually find my 125 is more fun to ride on my short commute about town than my bigger bikes. A 250 would be ideal as they can easily maintain a real 70mph and can work overtakes on country roads. I'll probably replace my 125 with one at some point.

If, however, it will be your only transport then something bigger would be more comfortable and relaxed in crap weather and on longer/faster runs. As much as I enjoy my 125 I wouldn't want anything under 500cc as my only bike.


Well im open to just about any bike at the moment havent really got my eyes set on one in particular yet but will definitely have a look at decent starter bikes in that cc range, My main concern is running costs really i dont want to be paying lots in insurance and fuel costs to start with and i dont know if more CCs = higher insurance ?(havent ran quotes for anything higher than a 250 yet!) Anyway will be booking my cbt very soon so at least then ill have some idea of what i want long term after that, Thanks!
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greeeeno
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


Once you've mopped the jizz out of your undies, decide whether you want to wait until September to experience maximum jizz, or get your A2 done now.



also can you do a course like das but to pass the A2 test instead of the full A test or would that be a waste of money and not worth considering? New to the bike licence requirements and only just (kind of) got my head around it!
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........
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


Don't decide anything, or even think about bikes, until you've got a licence to ride one.



Ridiculous advice. It's completely impossible to be going about getting your licence without being all over autotrader/ebay dreaming about your impending big boy's toy purchase. Nobody has that much self control!
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kgm
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 10 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's fine to look at thr market but I agree with Roger. No point committing to a particular bike or type of bike until you've at least done the CBT. Once you ride a bike you'll have a better idea of what you want and that idea might be very different from what you had in mind before riding one at all.
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greeeeno
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraggem wrote:
It's fine to look at thr market but I agree with Roger. No point committing to a particular bike or type of bike until you've at least done the CBT. Once you ride a bike you'll have a better idea of what you want and that idea might be very different from what you had in mind before riding one at all.


Agree, think i will start to look proper after it tbh. Also would you recommend me getting gear before the bike or vise versa ? i was going to get that out the way before i do my cbt next month then i can save up for a bike. was looking to spend around 500 all in on gear had a good look on sbs and dont know whether to go cheep on everything or go for more mid range.. all new to me so i have just been picking based on price/reviews etc
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 00:34 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want a bike? First you need a licence. - CBT is NOT a licence! Its Compulsory Basic Training.. the first LESSON.. and you have to do it! (If you want to ride a motorbike on the road)

So start there... but remember it is NOT a licence! Its a learner's permit. Complete the course they give you a DL196 form to 'validate' your provisional entitlement, so you can go take lessons and practice for tests to get a full licence... and there is a 125 '0nly' lightweight licence, A1 entitlement, you can test for to get a real 125-Only licence. There's also A2 'middle-weight' licence you can test for, that permits any capacity motorcycle up to 45bhp, and then the 'Any-Bike-You-Like' 'A' entitlement.

The tests, are actually the exact same ones, for any entitlement; only difference is the size of bike you must have to take tests on. And of course the age eligibility to take the tests; 17 for A1, 19 for A2, and 24 for RWY'A'.

DAS? I a little bit of legacy from the last licence system, and refers to provisions that let students ride a big bike on lessons under supervision, and 'skip' the 33bhp restriction on a RWYL 'A' licence they cold test for on a 125, if they took tests on that big-bike; which gave rise to lessons offered under DAS rules being described DAS lessons or DAS courses, which has sort of 'stuck' to be applied to any lessons offered on the bigger bikes.There wasn't, and still isn't, actually ANY requirement to take any lessons or do any training, other than CBT to get a licence; but they are pretty useful, and if you want either of the higher-licence entitlements, the usual convenience for getting a test-eligible bike for, and riding it to, the test.

But there is absolutely NOTHING that says you 'must Do DAS', even if you are age eligible for either higher licence.

Lets talk Tiddlers! - This actually includes all 'lightweight' motorcycles, from mopeds, up to including 125cc 'Learer-Legal'/A1 bikes, and possibly a bit beyond up to 250's depending on your age and experience or out-look.

Over half of all Registered road-bikes listed by DVLA as taxed and insured available to be legally used on our roads, are less than 125cc, whilst annual sales and registration figures suggest that maybe 2/3 of all bikes sold are under 125cc... discrepancy between the two hinted at, by the fact that the annual average mileage on under 125' tends to be about double that of big-bikes, in the order of 6ooo miles a year; indicate how much more 'use' they get, as well as how much more common they are.

Large reason for the number of <125's is that they may be ridden, without passing tests on that 'Learners Permit' of no more than CBT; other though is that they are usually cheaper to buy, and usually offer very low running costs, so are a very cheap way to get to work, and beat bus-fares. So many riders cant ALL be so far 'wrong'!

The A1/L-Plate 'restrictions' on the performance a 125 may have, is actually quite 'generous'; they are allowed up to 144.5 bhp, and that can take them all the way to and perhaps a little beyond, in more favorable conditions, a genuine 70mph... That is as fast as ANYTHING is legally allowed to go in the UK on public rads, and then, only on duel-carriageways and motorways; National-Speed-Limit is actually 60mph, and most 'tiddlers' can usually do that readily enough, even if they don't have the full-quotaof power regs permit.... they can certainly break most UK speed-limits, if you are daft enough to try, and are no real precaution to saving either life or licence! You face the same danger's on one as on anything else, pretty much, and the biggest, is likely sat on the saddle hanging onto the handle-bars! YOU!

"You will get Bored with a 125"

I HATE that presumption. I am 46 years old, And have had at least one bike and been riding them, a few months shy of 40 years, starting long before I was old enough to ride on the road, and competing in School-Boy trials. I STILL own 125's, more I can still find a hell of a lot of fun in them!

For starters, taking a chuk of dead metal and making it 'live' again, is one kind of fun to be had from them; then there's riding them, and believe me, wafting past petrol stations not having to stop and fll up is a perverse sort of 'fun'; but point to point, cross country, having to make the most of the limited performance one has, is an awful lot more 'fun' than riding something that has a shear excess of performance and takes no more than a big fistful of throttle and stupidity to 'go-fast'.. wear out expensive tyres, burn lots of petrol, and risk loosing your licence in a hurry!

125's can go as are and as fast as anything is legally allowed to go in this country; they offer an awful LOT of fun for what they are and what they cot, IF you have the mind to look for it and appreciate it... ad f you don't have that, ad expect the bike, like a game-station to do it all for you ad provide instant thrills and entertainment on demand, you probably wont find much in any other bike of any capacity.

Something of an irony these days, that 125' are so oft ridiculed as toys and kiddie bikes, when tiddlers actually outnumber 'big-bikes' in DVLA registrations, and between them, they crank up around 2/3 of all motorcycle miles covered in the country.... more often its the tiddlers out and about in all weathers working for a living, getting the job done, getting you to your job, whilst the big-bikes sit around in sheds, only to be hauled out when the sun shines 'just for fun' that more apltly fit the description of 'toy'!!

125's are wonderful work-horses, and so what if they don't deliver the expected big grins! They aint a gamestation! But they are damneably 'useful' and they ca still be a heck of a lot of 'fun' is you stick preconceptions and prejudices on the shelf, and appreciate them for what they are and can do, ot what they don't.... which leads to s many actually beng frustrated even with bigger bikes that dont delver game-station like on demand thrlls, and beg the rider still work for the fun!

So don't let any-one ridicule them before you begin... back to LICENCES.

CBT is not a licence, its your first lesson. And a pretty heavy one it is too! But still... there is a lot of learning to be had on CBT, and it does cover pretty much all the basics and take it a long way towards the standards required on test... but it isn't a test, oesn' give you a licence or make you a 'good' rider. It is just to get you started, before you, possibly potter t on the roads, on your own, on a 125, to 'practice'... for test, not dodge them, trying to go to ad from work every day.... actual tests only cost about as much as a repeat CBT course, and the intent of that IS to encourage folk to go take them, rather than dodge them, re-doing the first lesson!

Compulsory Basic Training... you have to do t... whether you do t as a stand alone course, to go wally about n a 125 & L's or to possibly as part of a DAS coure dong lessons on a bg bke, t HAS to be done.. you may as well go do and get a little learnig from it... THEN you can make choices.

'L's are for learner's not dodgers! If you feel you only really 'need' a 125, and I will hapily argue with any-one who says that any-one has any real dire 'need' of anything bigger.... 125's are incredibly capable machines for their displacement, they can do pretty much as much as any other bike, just perhaps not quite so fast or as easily or as comfortably, but they can do it.

A1.. is the 125-only licence entitlement; IF a 125 is 'enough' and little to presume it wont be; then dont play at it, and prtend to be a learner, dodging test on CBT & L's go get the licence! Beuty of the A1 licence is that it IS ascheap as repeat CBT to get, and f you have your own 125 you can ride on L's you dont have to go through a school to do lessons on a bigger bike. Yu can go it alone, learn fro old lags or other riders, read up, and wobble about car-parks practicing, and ONLY have to pay the test fees, to get the licence that will let you do it indefnitely, and enjoy a awful lot of biking, that ca still be a heck of a lot of fun, but also the savings to be found from usually high MPG low cost machines ideal for beatng bus-fares.

A2 - the 45bhp restricted licence, is pretty much only relevent to 1-23yr-olds. To get one begs DAS training ad testng on a DAS bike, which if you are old enough and prepared to pay for would be exactly the ame as for RWYL'A' tests and enttlement.

RWYL'A' is the real-deal full monty licence entitlement. Begs dong a DAS course to get it, to put DAS standard wheels under your bm, f only for actual tests, but you are likely to learn a fair bit along the way, it should be 'lessons'. Expensive lessons! Average prices of DAS cores are around £700ish depending on where you live ad what the school offer n the course. It's a some-what fraught arena, and plenty of pitfalls; the short intensve courses do tend to better suit folk who have been ridng 125's on L's for a long while, even folk who come to bikes from cars with some road experience thinking they should ace it n three days, will often struggle to get up to speed that fast; and there is no guarantee you'll get a licence at the end of your course; and failing DAS or havg to book repeat lessons or courses can start to get very expensive very quickly.

But it IS training and a lot of useful learning may be had, IF you aproach them for the learning NOT just the licences! Which you might not get going it alone, in the school of hard knocks (which can come hard!) on a 125 & L's.

And you should get the 'Ride What You Like' licence for the cost & effort.. take note, its RIDE WHAT YOU LIKE! Licence! It s not a 'big-bike-licence'! No one will take it off you, if you don't go buy and ride something at least 500cc's in the first six months of pasting! You ca still ride a 125 on one if that is what you like! As I do, as I am perverse, or as others do because they are cheap, or they are the most 'suitable' to the job, like commuting.

But those are the basic choices, and you don't need dismiss 'tiddlers' aywhere along the line, they are very credible, very useful, and can be very entertaining motorcycles.

What do you really wat? Toy or transport? f you want instant on demand 'entertainment' go buy an X-Box! If you want a cheap way to work, then look at 125's and mopeds, or even a push-bike! That's as cheap as t gets AND gets you ft! How much 'fun' do you thik you can have on the way to work, and how much is it worth to you? Makes your choices, pays your money and GO GET A LICENCE!

Which starts with CBT....

Big-Bikes? And your pal's CBR250... I actually rue the trends in biking over my riding life-time that have seen 'tiddlers' squashed down into the under 125 rage, where they will struggle to offer much ore than barely adequate performance, whilst 'middle-weights' have grown fro 350's, to 500's, to 550's into 600's, and now 650's, that were when I started the 'big-bikes'; pushng the 'big-bikes' successively up the displacement range, from 500cc to 750cc to 900, and the full litre, with the 'monsters' that were rarely even 1200cc in my youth up to Two-Point-Effin-TREE!!!! Not only has it got an engine as big as a bludy flat-bed lorry, they even badge it in liters like one! JEEZ! (Triumph Rocket III BTW!)

I get an awful lot of 'fun' from my 125's... I don't need to take the all that seriously I can treat them rather irreverently, ad there's a lot of satisfaction to be gained from getting as much out of one as it can possibly offer, which to my mind makes a lot of bigger bikes the ones that are 'boring' doing little more than a lot of fast for very little effort, less skill, and not really 'engaging' very much with me along the way; 'sensation' provided most often simply from extreme acceleration, extreme braking and very violent cornering to 'actually' not get anywhere much, if any sooner! That less-is-so-often-more, makes me wince when folk start talking about how they think they are 'outgrowing' big bikes or finding them a bit 'bland' or plan 'boring', and wonder WHY so many have this obsession with the bike, and resumption its the bike's job to deliver the thrills, and expect bigger to be better to be more.... ad so often find it ISN'T.

It's the RIDE, ad how you aproach the bike, and what yo put in compared to what you get out that makes the 'interest', and there is so much more to enjoy along the way in the scnary and the places you ca go and things you ca do, than just rushing past, and often nto the scenery as quick as you can! But even if that's your bag, a smaller less capable bke, that begs more involvement, more rider effort to go even just a bit quick, is so often so much more fun, more entertaining and certainly a chunk load more rewarding.

Here, the dumbelling of the market, crushing small bikes into the under 125 section, and leaving a ruddy great gap, for the most part until you get to 500's that are rapidly growing to become 650's! Leaves a big hole for 'big tiddlers' that, could offer so much more to so many riders, ad that it 'extra' to make very day riding that bit more comfy, as well as that bit extra on top of the 'fun' to be found trying to make the most of it... ufortunatley, its a neglected sector, both by riders, who if they have a licence to ride anything more than a 125, usually aren't interested, and by manufacturers, who despite stuffing offerings like the CBR250 into it, so often fail to find customers for them, so continue to refrain from expanding it.

Practically, it's a mine-field market; there are a lot of 'old' 250's from the pre-82 era when learers could ride them on L-Platers that are now either 'nostalgia specials' for ride-outs and shows, or clapped out commuters ridden into the groud as get to work hacks, for thirty years, thrashed trashed and crashed by a successin of 33bhp restrcted riders saving up for a 'proper' big bike, or sat simply dead metal in need of expensve restration! There have been very very new bikes in this sector, most are 'other-market' Learner-Bikes, like the CBR250; so going to look for one is not giving yourself best chance to find very much and you have to ponder whether even f you found anythig what t might offer over, say a 500 commuter twin, which eve on a 33bhp restricted licence or modern A2, could be made licence complaint.

That then begs, the query, if you open up the remit for a bike beyond 125's or 250's, and consider 500 twns, why stop there, especially as at 24, to get even an A2 licence you might as well go RWYLA for the same money, and that opens the playng feld to just about anything, so WHAT do you really want?

Back to licences! If cheaps is the imperative; NOT having to spend big money on a course to get a licence to ride one, and going it alone on L's on a 125 is as good a way to get a licence and some road sense and experience along the way, for least outlay, what would a bigger bike do for you?... Cost Bigger Money! For starters!

Cost of a course, in the order of £700 up before you tart, isn't insignificant; A 250, may, in every-day use not be much if any more expensive to run than a 125; might even be cheaper to insure! Small added performance one might have? F you found one, could be useful, BUT, it certainly isn't essential, and is t really worth the money to get the licence to have it?

If the performance IS worth that extra to have; then, with a RWYL-Licence, seems daft to short change yourself so much, when yu could have all a 500 commuter twin has to offer for probably no more money, and an easier time finding one! Will cost more to tax, but probably not a lot more f anything to insure, depending what you go for, and nedn't cost too much more to run. You may, if you keep your rght wrist ad enthusiasm in check, get as good mpg as you would from even a 125 from one; and possibly not have inordinately high blls for tyres, chains & Sprockets and stuff. Let loose the exuberance though, they will get expensive pretty quick. Fact 'Performance COSTS' end of. More you have more it will cost, more you use, so much more quickly t'll cost, and high performance bikes are NOT cheap to run.

Look in the workshop, and it's oh so depressg how many full of enthusiasm, go get four cylinder 600's, becaue they are 'so-cheap'... then find how expensive tyres are, how often they need them, and how much looking after then need to maita that performance, and end up runing these things into the ground, unable to gvie them the maintenance they deserve to retain the performance they should have, or even use what they do have, eking them along between pay-days.

If kept as sunny day toys, lack of miles keeps the costs withing reasonable limits, and only riding them for fun, few fun miles are delve rig 'best value' for what they cost, you ca actually get the fun fro them. But trying to do-it-all, ad treat as a toy o the week-end and transport to get to work, so often prove an expensive way to have neither.

Which brings us back round to Toy-or-Transport, and adds, how much is ether worth? Which only really YOU can answer, and probably not until you have gone had a crack and found out for yourself.

So start wth CBT...dont dismiss 125's but if you follow that route dont dodge the tests, use the damn thing to get you the licence! Whether for cheaps an A1 125 oly licence so you dont have to repeat CBT ever; or as stepinpg stone to dong a course for a RWYL'A', upping your chances of gettig value fro what you have to sped on traiing.

If you do CBT and are enthused to go do DAS straight off, then, still, dont dismiss 125's straight off, remember RWYL licence, and a 125 can earn its keep very well as get to work wheels, and 'save' the grunt miles on something bigger saved just for the week-end as so many are! Logical progression though would be a 500ish commuter twin, sugestng some one-bike happy medium; but either way, it IS actually the last thing you need and ts ot a once and forever choice....

Go do CBT, and decide which licence to work towards.. it's the licence that's the passport to the buffet; the bike just one dish on the table, So open the door before trying to fill your plate!
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 01:35 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone thinks they'll enjoy biking (which is why they do a CBT) and most do, but a few don't.
So really don't make plans until you've done your CBT and know it's something you want to do.
So first thing to do is find a training school and book up your CBT.

At the end of your CBT discuss doing your DAS with the instructor.
As the borg says, you may be able to blag a quick ride around the training area on their DAS bike (must be over 500cc and usually a 650).
You'll quickly notice that the weight disappears as soon as your doing 5+mph and it's (usually) easier than the little 125.

You will check the bay and gumtree etc, but there's little point until you've started your DAS as you won't know what suits you.
Even after doing your DAS you still won't actually know but you'll have a better idea.
Then 6-12 months down the line you'll start to appreciate what qualities are actually important.
Personally I hated riding in heavy traffic (as most commuters do) on a sportsbike, but some prefer that.
I prefer to sit up, so I can see over cars etc and prefer dual-sport (ADV type bikes) now, but spent the first 10+ years riding mainly 'Naked' bikes, as they're now known...
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greeeeno
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PostPosted: 01:55 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
You want a bike? First you need a licence. - CBT is NOT a licence! Its Compulsory Basic Training.. the first LESSON.. and you have to do it! (If you want to ride a motorbike on the road)

So start there... but remember it is NOT a licence! Its a learner's permit. Complete the course they give you a DL196 form to 'validate' your provisional entitlement, so you can go take lessons and practice for tests to get a full licence... and there is a 125 '0nly' lightweight licence, A1 entitlement, you can test for to get a real 125-Only licence. There's also A2 'middle-weight' licence you can test for, that permits any capacity motorcycle up to 45bhp, and then the 'Any-Bike-You-Like' 'A' entitlement.

The tests, are actually the exact same ones, for any entitlement; only difference is the size of bike you must have to take tests on. And of course the age eligibility to take the tests; 17 for A1, 19 for A2, and 24 for RWY'A'.

DAS? I a little bit of legacy from the last licence system, and refers to provisions that let students ride a big bike on lessons under supervision, and 'skip' the 33bhp restriction on a RWYL 'A' licence they cold test for on a 125, if they took tests on that big-bike; which gave rise to lessons offered under DAS rules being described DAS lessons or DAS courses, which has sort of 'stuck' to be applied to any lessons offered on the bigger bikes.There wasn't, and still isn't, actually ANY requirement to take any lessons or do any training, other than CBT to get a licence; but they are pretty useful, and if you want either of the higher-licence entitlements, the usual convenience for getting a test-eligible bike for, and riding it to, the test.

But there is absolutely NOTHING that says you 'must Do DAS', even if you are age eligible for either higher licence.

Lets talk Tiddlers! - This actually includes all 'lightweight' motorcycles, from mopeds, up to including 125cc 'Learer-Legal'/A1 bikes, and possibly a bit beyond up to 250's depending on your age and experience or out-look.

Over half of all Registered road-bikes listed by DVLA as taxed and insured available to be legally used on our roads, are less than 125cc, whilst annual sales and registration figures suggest that maybe 2/3 of all bikes sold are under 125cc... discrepancy between the two hinted at, by the fact that the annual average mileage on under 125' tends to be about double that of big-bikes, in the order of 6ooo miles a year; indicate how much more 'use' they get, as well as how much more common they are.

Large reason for the number of <125's is that they may be ridden, without passing tests on that 'Learners Permit' of no more than CBT; other though is that they are usually cheaper to buy, and usually offer very low running costs, so are a very cheap way to get to work, and beat bus-fares. So many riders cant ALL be so far 'wrong'!

The A1/L-Plate 'restrictions' on the performance a 125 may have, is actually quite 'generous'; they are allowed up to 144.5 bhp, and that can take them all the way to and perhaps a little beyond, in more favorable conditions, a genuine 70mph... That is as fast as ANYTHING is legally allowed to go in the UK on public rads, and then, only on duel-carriageways and motorways; National-Speed-Limit is actually 60mph, and most 'tiddlers' can usually do that readily enough, even if they don't have the full-quotaof power regs permit.... they can certainly break most UK speed-limits, if you are daft enough to try, and are no real precaution to saving either life or licence! You face the same danger's on one as on anything else, pretty much, and the biggest, is likely sat on the saddle hanging onto the handle-bars! YOU!

"You will get Bored with a 125"

I HATE that presumption. I am 46 years old, And have had at least one bike and been riding them, a few months shy of 40 years, starting long before I was old enough to ride on the road, and competing in School-Boy trials. I STILL own 125's, more I can still find a hell of a lot of fun in them!

For starters, taking a chuk of dead metal and making it 'live' again, is one kind of fun to be had from them; then there's riding them, and believe me, wafting past petrol stations not having to stop and fll up is a perverse sort of 'fun'; but point to point, cross country, having to make the most of the limited performance one has, is an awful lot more 'fun' than riding something that has a shear excess of performance and takes no more than a big fistful of throttle and stupidity to 'go-fast'.. wear out expensive tyres, burn lots of petrol, and risk loosing your licence in a hurry!

125's can go as are and as fast as anything is legally allowed to go in this country; they offer an awful LOT of fun for what they are and what they cot, IF you have the mind to look for it and appreciate it... ad f you don't have that, ad expect the bike, like a game-station to do it all for you ad provide instant thrills and entertainment on demand, you probably wont find much in any other bike of any capacity.

Something of an irony these days, that 125' are so oft ridiculed as toys and kiddie bikes, when tiddlers actually outnumber 'big-bikes' in DVLA registrations, and between them, they crank up around 2/3 of all motorcycle miles covered in the country.... more often its the tiddlers out and about in all weathers working for a living, getting the job done, getting you to your job, whilst the big-bikes sit around in sheds, only to be hauled out when the sun shines 'just for fun' that more apltly fit the description of 'toy'!!

125's are wonderful work-horses, and so what if they don't deliver the expected big grins! They aint a gamestation! But they are damneably 'useful' and they ca still be a heck of a lot of 'fun' is you stick preconceptions and prejudices on the shelf, and appreciate them for what they are and can do, ot what they don't.... which leads to s many actually beng frustrated even with bigger bikes that dont delver game-station like on demand thrlls, and beg the rider still work for the fun!

So don't let any-one ridicule them before you begin... back to LICENCES.

CBT is not a licence, its your first lesson. And a pretty heavy one it is too! But still... there is a lot of learning to be had on CBT, and it does cover pretty much all the basics and take it a long way towards the standards required on test... but it isn't a test, oesn' give you a licence or make you a 'good' rider. It is just to get you started, before you, possibly potter t on the roads, on your own, on a 125, to 'practice'... for test, not dodge them, trying to go to ad from work every day.... actual tests only cost about as much as a repeat CBT course, and the intent of that IS to encourage folk to go take them, rather than dodge them, re-doing the first lesson!

Compulsory Basic Training... you have to do t... whether you do t as a stand alone course, to go wally about n a 125 & L's or to possibly as part of a DAS coure dong lessons on a bg bke, t HAS to be done.. you may as well go do and get a little learnig from it... THEN you can make choices.

'L's are for learner's not dodgers! If you feel you only really 'need' a 125, and I will hapily argue with any-one who says that any-one has any real dire 'need' of anything bigger.... 125's are incredibly capable machines for their displacement, they can do pretty much as much as any other bike, just perhaps not quite so fast or as easily or as comfortably, but they can do it.

A1.. is the 125-only licence entitlement; IF a 125 is 'enough' and little to presume it wont be; then dont play at it, and prtend to be a learner, dodging test on CBT & L's go get the licence! Beuty of the A1 licence is that it IS ascheap as repeat CBT to get, and f you have your own 125 you can ride on L's you dont have to go through a school to do lessons on a bigger bike. Yu can go it alone, learn fro old lags or other riders, read up, and wobble about car-parks practicing, and ONLY have to pay the test fees, to get the licence that will let you do it indefnitely, and enjoy a awful lot of biking, that ca still be a heck of a lot of fun, but also the savings to be found from usually high MPG low cost machines ideal for beatng bus-fares.

A2 - the 45bhp restricted licence, is pretty much only relevent to 1-23yr-olds. To get one begs DAS training ad testng on a DAS bike, which if you are old enough and prepared to pay for would be exactly the ame as for RWYL'A' tests and enttlement.

RWYL'A' is the real-deal full monty licence entitlement. Begs dong a DAS course to get it, to put DAS standard wheels under your bm, f only for actual tests, but you are likely to learn a fair bit along the way, it should be 'lessons'. Expensive lessons! Average prices of DAS cores are around £700ish depending on where you live ad what the school offer n the course. It's a some-what fraught arena, and plenty of pitfalls; the short intensve courses do tend to better suit folk who have been ridng 125's on L's for a long while, even folk who come to bikes from cars with some road experience thinking they should ace it n three days, will often struggle to get up to speed that fast; and there is no guarantee you'll get a licence at the end of your course; and failing DAS or havg to book repeat lessons or courses can start to get very expensive very quickly.

But it IS training and a lot of useful learning may be had, IF you aproach them for the learning NOT just the licences! Which you might not get going it alone, in the school of hard knocks (which can come hard!) on a 125 & L's.

And you should get the 'Ride What You Like' licence for the cost & effort.. take note, its RIDE WHAT YOU LIKE! Licence! It s not a 'big-bike-licence'! No one will take it off you, if you don't go buy and ride something at least 500cc's in the first six months of pasting! You ca still ride a 125 on one if that is what you like! As I do, as I am perverse, or as others do because they are cheap, or they are the most 'suitable' to the job, like commuting.

But those are the basic choices, and you don't need dismiss 'tiddlers' aywhere along the line, they are very credible, very useful, and can be very entertaining motorcycles.

What do you really wat? Toy or transport? f you want instant on demand 'entertainment' go buy an X-Box! If you want a cheap way to work, then look at 125's and mopeds, or even a push-bike! That's as cheap as t gets AND gets you ft! How much 'fun' do you thik you can have on the way to work, and how much is it worth to you? Makes your choices, pays your money and GO GET A LICENCE!

Which starts with CBT....

Big-Bikes? And your pal's CBR250... I actually rue the trends in biking over my riding life-time that have seen 'tiddlers' squashed down into the under 125 rage, where they will struggle to offer much ore than barely adequate performance, whilst 'middle-weights' have grown fro 350's, to 500's, to 550's into 600's, and now 650's, that were when I started the 'big-bikes'; pushng the 'big-bikes' successively up the displacement range, from 500cc to 750cc to 900, and the full litre, with the 'monsters' that were rarely even 1200cc in my youth up to Two-Point-Effin-TREE!!!! Not only has it got an engine as big as a bludy flat-bed lorry, they even badge it in liters like one! JEEZ! (Triumph Rocket III BTW!)

I get an awful lot of 'fun' from my 125's... I don't need to take the all that seriously I can treat them rather irreverently, ad there's a lot of satisfaction to be gained from getting as much out of one as it can possibly offer, which to my mind makes a lot of bigger bikes the ones that are 'boring' doing little more than a lot of fast for very little effort, less skill, and not really 'engaging' very much with me along the way; 'sensation' provided most often simply from extreme acceleration, extreme braking and very violent cornering to 'actually' not get anywhere much, if any sooner! That less-is-so-often-more, makes me wince when folk start talking about how they think they are 'outgrowing' big bikes or finding them a bit 'bland' or plan 'boring', and wonder WHY so many have this obsession with the bike, and resumption its the bike's job to deliver the thrills, and expect bigger to be better to be more.... ad so often find it ISN'T.

It's the RIDE, ad how you aproach the bike, and what yo put in compared to what you get out that makes the 'interest', and there is so much more to enjoy along the way in the scnary and the places you ca go and things you ca do, than just rushing past, and often nto the scenery as quick as you can! But even if that's your bag, a smaller less capable bke, that begs more involvement, more rider effort to go even just a bit quick, is so often so much more fun, more entertaining and certainly a chunk load more rewarding.

Here, the dumbelling of the market, crushing small bikes into the under 125 section, and leaving a ruddy great gap, for the most part until you get to 500's that are rapidly growing to become 650's! Leaves a big hole for 'big tiddlers' that, could offer so much more to so many riders, ad that it 'extra' to make very day riding that bit more comfy, as well as that bit extra on top of the 'fun' to be found trying to make the most of it... ufortunatley, its a neglected sector, both by riders, who if they have a licence to ride anything more than a 125, usually aren't interested, and by manufacturers, who despite stuffing offerings like the CBR250 into it, so often fail to find customers for them, so continue to refrain from expanding it.

Practically, it's a mine-field market; there are a lot of 'old' 250's from the pre-82 era when learers could ride them on L-Platers that are now either 'nostalgia specials' for ride-outs and shows, or clapped out commuters ridden into the groud as get to work hacks, for thirty years, thrashed trashed and crashed by a successin of 33bhp restrcted riders saving up for a 'proper' big bike, or sat simply dead metal in need of expensve restration! There have been very very new bikes in this sector, most are 'other-market' Learner-Bikes, like the CBR250; so going to look for one is not giving yourself best chance to find very much and you have to ponder whether even f you found anythig what t might offer over, say a 500 commuter twin, which eve on a 33bhp restricted licence or modern A2, could be made licence complaint.

That then begs, the query, if you open up the remit for a bike beyond 125's or 250's, and consider 500 twns, why stop there, especially as at 24, to get even an A2 licence you might as well go RWYLA for the same money, and that opens the playng feld to just about anything, so WHAT do you really want?

Back to licences! If cheaps is the imperative; NOT having to spend big money on a course to get a licence to ride one, and going it alone on L's on a 125 is as good a way to get a licence and some road sense and experience along the way, for least outlay, what would a bigger bike do for you?... Cost Bigger Money! For starters!

Cost of a course, in the order of £700 up before you tart, isn't insignificant; A 250, may, in every-day use not be much if any more expensive to run than a 125; might even be cheaper to insure! Small added performance one might have? F you found one, could be useful, BUT, it certainly isn't essential, and is t really worth the money to get the licence to have it?

If the performance IS worth that extra to have; then, with a RWYL-Licence, seems daft to short change yourself so much, when yu could have all a 500 commuter twin has to offer for probably no more money, and an easier time finding one! Will cost more to tax, but probably not a lot more f anything to insure, depending what you go for, and nedn't cost too much more to run. You may, if you keep your rght wrist ad enthusiasm in check, get as good mpg as you would from even a 125 from one; and possibly not have inordinately high blls for tyres, chains & Sprockets and stuff. Let loose the exuberance though, they will get expensive pretty quick. Fact 'Performance COSTS' end of. More you have more it will cost, more you use, so much more quickly t'll cost, and high performance bikes are NOT cheap to run.

Look in the workshop, and it's oh so depressg how many full of enthusiasm, go get four cylinder 600's, becaue they are 'so-cheap'... then find how expensive tyres are, how often they need them, and how much looking after then need to maita that performance, and end up runing these things into the ground, unable to gvie them the maintenance they deserve to retain the performance they should have, or even use what they do have, eking them along between pay-days.

If kept as sunny day toys, lack of miles keeps the costs withing reasonable limits, and only riding them for fun, few fun miles are delve rig 'best value' for what they cost, you ca actually get the fun fro them. But trying to do-it-all, ad treat as a toy o the week-end and transport to get to work, so often prove an expensive way to have neither.

Which brings us back round to Toy-or-Transport, and adds, how much is ether worth? Which only really YOU can answer, and probably not until you have gone had a crack and found out for yourself.

So start wth CBT...dont dismiss 125's but if you follow that route dont dodge the tests, use the damn thing to get you the licence! Whether for cheaps an A1 125 oly licence so you dont have to repeat CBT ever; or as stepinpg stone to dong a course for a RWYL'A', upping your chances of gettig value fro what you have to sped on traiing.

If you do CBT and are enthused to go do DAS straight off, then, still, dont dismiss 125's straight off, remember RWYL licence, and a 125 can earn its keep very well as get to work wheels, and 'save' the grunt miles on something bigger saved just for the week-end as so many are! Logical progression though would be a 500ish commuter twin, sugestng some one-bike happy medium; but either way, it IS actually the last thing you need and ts ot a once and forever choice....

Go do CBT, and decide which licence to work towards.. it's the licence that's the passport to the buffet; the bike just one dish on the table, So open the door before trying to fill your plate!


Well thanks very much for that reply i really appreciate it! i agree with you fully on what you say about 125s, just to be clear the only thing i have to compare one to is being sat on a bus! never ridden a bike in my life! (just a push bike) but i see bikes with L plates zoom past all the time while im sat waiting for some oldies to get on the bus, im sick of it! so any thing better than that is better for me. Until i spoke to my mate about it i was fully set on doing my cbt and buying a 125 no problems at all! But like you elude too i think he has a kind of stiff upper lip towards 125s as hes now on a bigger bike sees them as crap compared to his etc n told me about das rather than the benefits of a 125 compared to the bus etc.. ive ran quotes for 125s and fully comp for all of them came up WAY cheaper compared to what im spending on buses etc so with that in mind it makes sense for me to get one and get a feel for riding. you know i spent a lot of money doing my driving all for the reason of getting me about on my own back without relying on bus times etc but no way can i afford it and that same reason carrys over for me wanting to get a bike however i can afford it! Like u say though i will wait till ive done the cbt and decide then, see if i can get a go on the bigger bike i might prefer it and want do go down the das route but they could say no!! even so i wont rule out getting a 125 straight after it! im not looking for a toy weekend bike i just want something that will eliminate buses out of my life forever lol!! Anyway thanks again for the reply buddy really appreciate it!!
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greeeeno
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 07 May 2017
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PostPosted: 02:13 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpineandy wrote:
Everyone thinks they'll enjoy biking (which is why they do a CBT) and most do, but a few don't.
So really don't make plans until you've done your CBT and know it's something you want to do.
So first thing to do is find a training school and book up your CBT.

At the end of your CBT discuss doing your DAS with the instructor.
As the borg says, you may be able to blag a quick ride around the training area on their DAS bike (must be over 500cc and usually a 650).
You'll quickly notice that the weight disappears as soon as your doing 5+mph and it's (usually) easier than the little 125.

You will check the bay and gumtree etc, but there's little point until you've started your DAS as you won't know what suits you.
Even after doing your DAS you still won't actually know but you'll have a better idea.
Then 6-12 months down the line you'll start to appreciate what qualities are actually important.
Personally I hated riding in heavy traffic (as most commuters do) on a sportsbike, but some prefer that.
I prefer to sit up, so I can see over cars etc and prefer dual-sport (ADV type bikes) now, but spent the first 10+ years riding mainly 'Naked' bikes, as they're now known...


For me its get a bike or catch the bus for the rest of my life. Car is out the window at the moment but getting a bike for me is doable and i would be saving money! Even if i dont like riding a bike its gotta be better than being sat on the bus, right? also im not set at all on any bike what so ever the only bikes ive really looked at are the YBR and CBF both commuter type bikes which i think would serve me well for the first year at least, ideally id like to have passed the full A test before the 2 year cbt lapses, i could even do the A1 test inbetween as practice it with a solid amount of riding experince under my belt rather than doing das with no experience what so ever. Anyway im still yet to do my cbt so will be better informed to make a decision then on whether to go with a 125 or wait it out for das. Appreciate the reply buddy!
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 05:41 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't enjoy it there's no point in doing it!
Ecconomic 'savings' that may or may not be found are just not worth it if you are miserable for it.

Busses? Have a lot to commend them! They dont get nicked from the works car-park or your back garden for starters! (and if they did! Its not your problem!) You don't have to fret about the MOT or the petrol, or whether the tyres are bald! They have a roof! and a HEATER! And some-other noodle has the worry of dodging myopic idiots backing off driveways or shoving push-chairs out infront!

The Glass s always cleaner on the other side! (or something like that!)

Very easy to imagine how much 'fun' that chap on a scooter pasing the window must be having, but truth is, he's probably relieving-himself in his water-proofs, thinking "Damn BUS! Why didn't you indicate BEFORE you pulled out! FCUK that wheels close! Bludy Heck that's a big wheel... "... as he gets close enough to read the 'retread' warning on the side-wall!

All that 'stress', and hard work, on your way to work? To save maybe a few quid, and possibly a few minutes! ISN'T going to be worth it, unless you actually are daft enough to enjoy it! And when the weather turns and you have to do t, in the cold, the dark and the crap; and the ONLY reason is to save a few penies and to not be sitting looking out the bus window, in the warm in the dry, not having the hassle..... at other folk still moving?

Crikey, I enjoy bikes! Must do, I've been riding the ruddy things nearly 40 years! I struggle to find ANY good reason to tackle that daily stress filled grind on one, rather than hop on a bus, and I have claustrophobia attacks on buses!

IF you dont enjoy, dont do!

Be warned; CBT is a heavy day. Theres an awful lot to do, more still to take in; there's a lot of concentrating, you wll use a lot of muscles you haven't n ways you haven't, and come the end you will likely be bludy tired, mentally blasted, and aching like mad... If you STILL want to get back on a bike after, you might just be as nuts as we are, and find the fun.... if not, don't worry; the thrill will usually outlive the discomfort! And you WILL want to get back on after a day or so; and no disgrace; CBT is likely 8 hours, and a good four or five n the saddle, probably on a smaller bike; and few, will ever do that sort of saddle time at a stretch, and certainly not on their daily commute; MANY do NOT complete CBT in a day, they have had enough by lnch-time, and come back to complete. Others, especially thse who haven't rdden or drven before, often wont get up to scratch to go out on the road after lunch to be able to complete; so DONT put that expectation on yourself before you start.

Go, ENJOY, learn, play bikes, see how you get on. Dont let the aches and pans and drain of it all put you off too quick, give yourself the added time, go back another day if necesary to give it a chance to sink in and for body to recover; it IS a bit of a temperng excersise; BUT it should be... FUN... so try and find that fun and enjoy.. it s the ONLY reason to get on a bike, that otherwise, lacks pretty much ANY sensible reason to be, let alone, be used!

And remember, CBT is but first lesson.. its the first step to a full licence of one sort or another.. Have fun!
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Tonyg1987
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PostPosted: 08:38 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I also agree that you should do the CBT first and then decide, might as well use it as a taster since it has to be done anyway. Also it can get expensive after the CBT with lessons around £55-60 and the cost of mod 2 which is £75. Add that up with protective clothing which isn't cheap and you've got yourself a pretty penny. Think I spent around £2500 before I saw a licence(and that doesn't include the cost of my bike) but if you decide biking is for you, the money will mean nothing and it will 100% be worth it. just curious are you planning taking up biking as a hobby, or as your daily commute?
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kgm
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

£500-600 is a perfectly reasonable gear budget. I'd do the CBT first to make sure you enjoy it though. You might find that some bigger bikes are actually cheaper for insurance so worth checking.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraggem wrote:
£500-600 is a perfectly reasonable gear budget.
I'd call that a pretty generous one TBH.
Head-To-Toe 'My First Motorbike Outfits', that include hat, gloves, boots, jacket and jeans, 'all in' for maybe £250-300 up, are often far from best value, and upping budget for presumed 'better' gear often not much more.

Law says you 'must' wear a crash-hat; they start from as little as £30, (Which is cheaper than a new ruddy visor that I need for mine!). Most budget hats are typically in the £100-ish bracket, mid-range hats, maybe around £300 and premium hats up from there to stupid money.

My£300 Shark is a great hat; it's got a fancy 'flip' mechanism so I can wear t as either a full-face or open; has a nice visor system, and integral sun-blind, it's got vents on the chin piece, and n the top, and a pop out and washable lining, and even pre-cut recesses for an intercom or radio headset! Fan-Tastic, and I do like it, BUT, little suggestion that it would do any better job saving my bonce in an 'off' than the £30 Open face with an unpronounceable name I cant even remember on it!

It's very very easy for folk to be 'over-sold' safety gear, on the fear of getting hurt; but ultimately, as far as hats go, they all have to meet the same approval standards to be sold as a motorcycle helmet, and there's very little to suggest any one hat, may ave any more hurt than any other in any actual accident, and practically, the range of effectiveness any of them may have is pretty small; fall off and bump your bonce no harder than walking into a low door frame, they wont save much hurt; fall off and get run over by a 75tonn artic, then heaven help you, 'cos no hat will make much difference!

Same is similarly true of the rest of the gear, and its very easy to be over-sold on fears, and suggestion more expensive must mean 'safer, when that's very mutable.

For CBT, you oughtn't need ANY gear, school should provide... but check what they do, and what they reccomend.

They will likely have a dress code, and that will stipulate 'sensible' outdoor footwear, not trainers or sandals; Similarly sensible trousers or jeans, and jacket.

They then 'may' have hats and gloves for student use; which, could be perfectly adequete; ot necesserily all that 'nice' sticking on a hat or gloves you dont know who has sweated before you though and it is generally reccomended you DONT buy second had hats, as you dont know their providence, and they cold have been bashed to bluggery ad be nie on useless in an 'off'.. but you have to have some faith that school do check the equipment they provide to be fit for purpose.

A 'cheap' crash-hat, and I seriously advocate the cheapness and lightness and full field of vision of an open face hat, as great for CBT, and cheap enough you ca treat t as disposeable and 'just' for the course, and keep as backup or spare, if you carry on, and get a 'better' hat when you get your own bike for regular rides. But cheap full-face hats, aren't much more expensive, and can be treated the same way, as a startig place.

More useful place of your spend is on better gloves; There's much more 'work' in making a pair of gloves, than there is in making a pair of jeans or a jacket. Might not be much material, but its an intricate shape, and needs a lot of stitching. This does tend to make 'good' gloves rather expensive... BUT... they should fit like a glove, and offer you plenty of feel on the controls, as well as that protection if you crash, and you are far ore likely, if you fall off, to 'surrender to the floor' and stick your hands out infront of you so they are the first thing to touch down and save you, than your crash-hat, that may never even touch tar in an off! Hence the more 'useful' protection to have.

Say it often enough, but there's three layers of protection; Primary Protection, USING your head, not stickig it in a bucket and thinking you have safety covered! SEE danger, DONT go there! Hazard awareness, observation, common bludy sense! Secondary Protection, more using your head, not sticking it in a plastc pot and hoping you have the matter covered! IN danger, get me the truck out of here! Hazard avoidance; reactions, machine control, but probably most of all, simply not panicking, or worse, making, the plot go to pot! Tertiary Protection... is the last line of defense. Happens only if you have failed to see danger, or ridden into it anyway, then, failed to get yourself out of it, or worse, panicked and got yourself into it.. NOW... well, sorry, but IT GONNA HURT.... and hat, gloves and other 'paddng', if you are lucky may soften the blow a little! Still gonna hurt, believe me, so try NOT to get into trouble to start with!

I THAT, trying not to get into trouble to start with; a helmet that doesn't fog up, and has a good field of vision so you can see dangers, is of more worth than one that has lots of padding, and might soften the blow a bit of you don't. Likewise gloves that give you best 'feel' to effect a delicate touch in the controls, are offering you 'safety' long before you ever need test their ability to save skin being ground on asphalt!

On CBT you will be taught to 'brake' and to do an emergency stop.No need to panic on such 'siulated' emergency, and it shouldn't be a 'shock' when you have to do t, unlike the real world; BUT, IF you are gong to fall off on CBT, that is where most usually do!

And the reason is because of 'snatching' the brake, and or failing to 'modulate' the brake pressure on the lever to stop the front wheel locking... thicker gloves, with more paddng that dont gve you such direct feel, dont help; ill fttg gloves where material mves aroud as you squeeze, wot help. Gloves that are too stiff and dont let you move fingers, or are tight and hurt hands when you squeeze, wont help.

Good gloves are a real boon to 'safety' like I say, long before you have t test the protection they offer! Cheap, or illfittig gloves, or ones compromised for supposed 'safety' in plastic armour or whatever rather than best 'feel', may do more harm than good!

BUY GOOD GLOVES! and that's ones with good fit and 'feel' rather than ones with most presumed 'protection' by way of padding or armour!

A-N-D for CBT, this is not something you can really cheapskate or is worth cheap-skatig on, 'just' for the course. It Is the most likely bit of 'protection' you may need, on the day.

Only other thing is water-proofs, and in this coutry tends to rain a lot, and I find I get wet far more often than I crash, o far more useful, to my way of reckoning. And again, stayng warm and dry, is good for protection, as if you are cold ad wet ad miserable it will hider your concentration, and so impare your riding, long before yo crash ad need to rely on 'paddng' to cusion a bit of hurt. They also tend to cover-all underneath, so you can 'mprovise' the rest of your attire with regular out-door weat and layer up for cusionig and warmth, and still 'look the part'... and decent water-proof over-suits start from something daft like £20!

You dont need a huge amount of dedicated bike gear, and certaily not straight off the stops, less still before you go do your CBT....

There is actually a whle chapter o teh CBT script, about 'safety apparel', and choosng helmets ad boots and other gear, and if you are sat there n your 'My First Motorbike Outfit', its all pretty much redundant, BUT school have to tell you anyway, and can be a little upsettig to be told you have spent loads of money on not such great gear!

So, save the spend until after CBT. If you buy anything, just get the more useful 'basics', and plan, if you go n to upgrade to better kit, and to expand the wardrobe as and when needed or funds allow.... ad after gloves, hat and water-proofs, bots are probably the next most useful thing to prioritize, and again, good boots are worth the money, heap ones, often little better, and oft no longer lasting than cheap trainers!

'Better' boots, are more likely in the £100-£150 price range for ones that are likely to actually offer better protection for the money, and 'last' for it; stuff the £50-£75 bracket, is likely buy cheap-buy twice, bad value for money, and worse, not offer the crash protection. At that sort of budget, sturdy work boots or army boots, are probably cheaper and offer more practical protection, and likely last better.

So, essentials of Gloves, Crash-hat, Water-Proofs, you aught be able to cover those essentials comfortably for under £100,, and should be 'enough' certainly for CBT and to be getting started, with a little improvisation, from what you already have the wardrobe.

If you have to have head-to foot coverage? Well, add maybe £50 for some sturdy footwear, And another £50 for a camo jacket and jeans from the army-surplus, and you are head to foot covered, and probably better, than a 'my-first-motorcycle-outfit, for well under £250.

But, best advice when it comes to motorcycle apparel is to be strategic. Crash helmets tend to get far more attention than they really deserve and are the headline item on the shopping list, gloves, often left as almost an after-thought and reasons to swap that about I hope offer the sort of 'strategy' you should apply in prioritizing spend t get 'best value', rather than adopting a blunder-buss approach of trying to cover everything, and compromising everything to get head-to-foot 'protection', rather than 'best' protection, for your money, putting most in the more useful places, and working from there, augmenting the kit or upgrading as you go, and you save the money for more or better stuff, and have good reason to get it.

But for CBT? Buy as little as you ca get away with! Gloves, hat, water-proofs, are about all you need consider, and even there, you don't need spend all that much, to get going.

And if pennys are the priority, you don't save money by spending money you save money by NOT spending money! And when you do have to spend it, making sure you need it and get best value from it.

So, spend as lttle as yu can get away with ahead of CBT, and get the 'value' from that CBT talk on choosing and using apparel! (or you aren't even gong to get the value from that!)
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the Teffing, it's a rite of passage.

greeeeno wrote:
also can you do a course like das but to pass the A2 test instead of the full A test or would that be a waste of money and not worth considering?

You can pay exactly the same amount to do exactly the same training and the tests are exactly the same for A1, A2 or A.

The only difference is the bike you use for the tests, which will in practice be at least a 190kg CB500F for A2 or even something like a 200kg+ restricted 650, so it's not even as though it's easier to do A2.

In its favour, you can do it now. Well, in principle, this is when training schools and test centres start to get busy, so get a move on.

With an A2 license you could buy a 600cc+ bike that makes between 40kW and 70kW, e.g. an ER6, CBF600, SV650, any Bandit, up to an FZS600.

You then restrict or "restrict" that to 35kW while you're on A2.

Pre-book your A tests for your 24th birthday. Rock up to the test centre on your bike, poke around under the seat to "derestrict" it, and then re-do exactly the same tests that you've already done on a very similar bike. £15.50 + £75, and you've got a full A licence without having to give any more money to a training school.

Yes, you can do that, a few folk here have successfully managed it.

However, given that we're about to hit peak training / test season, I'd probably sack that off and go straight to full A when you hit 24.

Up to you though.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Alpineandy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

greeeeno wrote:
Even if i dont like riding a bike its gotta be better than being sat on the bus, right?

Yes and No.
It depends in which way you don't like riding.
Some are scared shitless when they try a bike.

I'm not sure how Tonyg1987 spend £2.5K before he got his licence unless he went for real expensive gear and much more training than usual.
But IMO (from my mates sons experience) it would be difficult to do it for much less than £1.25k before the Bike & Insurance, although I'm sure some have done by buying gear 2nd hand.

But before going into all that, Do your CBT. The school will supply most of the gear and will guide you on it all.
The Instructors are bikers and generally a really decent helpful bunch (there are exceptions).
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Tonyg1987
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 18 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpineandy wrote:
greeeeno wrote:
Even if i dont like riding a bike its gotta be better than being sat on the bus, right?

Yes and No.
It depends in which way you don't like riding.
Some are scared shitless when they try a bike.

I'm not sure how Tonyg1987 spend £2.5K before he got his licence unless he went for real expensive gear and much more training than usual.
But IMO (from my mates sons experience) it would be difficult to do it for much less than £1.25k before the Bike & Insurance, although I'm sure some have done by buying gear 2nd hand.

But before going into all that, Do your CBT. The school will supply most of the gear and will guide you on it all.
The Instructors are bikers and generally a really decent helpful bunch (there are exceptions).


I bought the good stuff from the start as I didn't want to have to buy a second lot of gear after passing and also because it's not a good idea to cheap out where your life is concerned. Admittedly, I took quite a lot of mod 2 lessons due to lack of confidence, and lack of road knowledge as I had never ridden or driven before. I also failed mod 2 three times and passed on the 4th so it cost me £300 just in tests, that doesn't include rental of the bike from a riding school. It is a lot of hard work and stress to pass, not to mention expensive....but if you pass it will be worth it, the first ride you have without an instructor is the best feeling ever. Once you have a licence, the money balances out as it becomes much cheaper than driving a car. I was quoted £428 for a bandit 600 for the year fully comp the first week of passing, the same company quoted my sister £2300 for a 1.2 fiesta. Tax, MOT and fuel are all dirt cheap compared to their 4 wheeled friends, and lets face it, bikes are just so much more fun
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Alpineandy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonyg1987 wrote:
I bought the good stuff from the start as I didn't want to have to buy a second lot of gear after passing and also because it's not a good idea to cheap out where your life is concerned.

Without knowing the actual amount spent It's difficult to comment, but a decent lid (150), boots (100), gloves (50), Kevlar jeans (100) and a jacket (150) should be easily bought for less than £600 new.
A bit of searching around for either new deals or almost new and it can be much much less.
Obviously there's a lot to add if your a winter rider but just to pass the test that should be enough, as you can add the other bits over a much longer period of time.
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SuperMike
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 30 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait till September

DAS

// Thread.
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Bozzy
Traffic Copper



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 11 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do your CBT now, bag yourself a cheap 125 to practice on and do your DAS in September.

Regarding gear - There's some great bargains to be had on ebay and gumtree. For example, I've just got an Alpinestars textile jacket for £30! The one I got is now discontinued (T-GP) although they used to retail at £169.99. I also won some Triumph branded kevlar jeans for £25.
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