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Biking days over... sad times

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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
And what's the upside? Pikey gets another token fine (not paid), community service (not done) and driving ban (lulz). Then sues the force or claims his fat PIP payment for being all crippled and that.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
And what's the upside? Pikey gets another token fine (not paid), community service (not done) and driving ban (lulz). Then sues the force or claims his fat PIP payment for being all crippled and that.



I do wonder at what point vigilante groups will start forming... at least in NI knee capping is a thing.

Maybe it ought to be bought back?
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owl
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
<wrong thread> Embarassed

at least when my rainpal comes it will have lasers to protect me from teh scumbags
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Last edited by owl on 11:42 - 13 May 2017; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh, people are forever making vague unspecified threats on the internets.

Then a prank pizza gets ordered.

Such Bat-Justice.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Just buy a CG125 frame with V5 and plate. Insure it TPO (then SORN). At least you'll still be getting no claims...... Wink

If you declare 5 years NCB, insure with MCE who don't check (I don't even think they did at claim time), then in a years time ask for proof and you'll have 6 years to help with those premiums Smile

TaffyTDM wrote:
It's not the paperwork, more the fact the copper himself (and his radio operator) will get nicked for their efforts if the result isn't headline pleasing. See the byklifer that potatoed himself in hackney with a rucksack full of weed and three phones constantly ringing for an example. Diane Abbott was the first in the queue.

We've been over this one, the problem with that case was the coppers lying about not being in a chase with the bike that crashed. Still Darwin award worthy as had the lad stopped even with all that weed, and a bike with a stolen engine he probably would have got away with a slapped wrist.
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

We've been over this one, the problem with that case was the coppers lying about not being in a chase with the bike that crashed. Still Darwin award worthy as had the lad stopped even with all that weed, and a bike with a stolen engine he probably would have got away with a slapped wrist.


Which puts my point home. Fed's dindu no chasing because they knew they would be told to let byklyf crack on. And I really believe that pisses them off just as much as the rest.

Last week the dicks even went around knocking wing mirrors from police cars sat in traffic. Complete impunity. Do that to 7 or 8 cars in one go then do what you like knowing plod are waiting for the RAC?

Time to get tough for everyone's sake.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Re: Biking days over... sad times Reply with quote
TheArchitect wrote:

So my options are to either ride a shitter for a couple of years while paying silly insurance premiums or don't ride at all.

I've decided to not ride as I can't afford to pay the exorbitant premiums, and frankly I want to own a bike I enjoy looking at as much as I enjoy riding it.


Nothings stopping you from just riding it. If the police are too lazy to stop bike thieves then why should they bother if you enjoy your right to travel.
https://tothewire.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/images.jpg


angryjonny wrote:
Rozzers need to start chasing bikes again. If a scrote wraps himself around a lamp-post, fuck him.


Perhaps that attitude is why they're slacking off or maybe it's because they empathise with thieves for all the unlawful stealing they do themselves thanks to the traffic law changes that the vast majority of the public don't care for or need.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Re: Biking days over... sad times Reply with quote
TaffyTDM wrote:
Which puts my point home. Fed's dindu no chasing because they knew they would be told to let byklyf crack on. And I really believe that pisses them off just as much as the rest.

Maybe, although he wasn't a bike thief, having a dodgy engine crammed into your scooter isn't an uncommon mod, there are garages that will do it for you (or he bought the bike with it already in). The weed thing depends on your opinion, a guy I worked with got a caution for dealing. I guess all I'm saying's he's dead due to his choices and actions, but I wouldn't personally celebrate that fact and dance on his grave.

Jmoan wrote:
Nothings stopping you from just riding it. If the police are too lazy to stop bike thieves then why should they bother if you enjoy your right to travel.
https://tothewire.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/images.jpg

I hear OP's a devout Sikh and therefore no lid = no pursuit Twisted Evil
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I couldnt agree with you more on that point. Weed pusher or twocer, whatever, in my mind doesnt carry a death sentance.And I say that as someone who has had the same bike nicked twice in 6 months. But that's the game. And players (or their families/guardian readers/other snowflakes) have to accept that it's their choice to run from the popo, and if they hurt themselves trying to escape the consequences of their actions, well, they Could Have Just Stopped. It's not like we send people to the gulag anyway.

So whilst I absolutely won't be dancing on graves, don't expect me to shed any tears on them, or cut the grass around it either.
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Yorkshire Geek
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote
bigdom86 wrote:
I never got how someone crashing into you or stealing your item (if you are following the requirements in your insurance) should affect your premiums, they really need to re-think how insurance is done, it is not surprising people drive/ride without insurance

Statistically you're a higher risk. People who get hit by someone else or have something stolen once are more likely to have it happen to them again, hence cost of insurance goes up.

Actuarial tables are brutal, but they're deadly accurate.
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
TaffyTDM wrote:

Weed pusher or twocer, whatever, in my mind doesnt carry a death sentance ... ... But that's the game. And players (or their families/guardian readers/other snowflakes) have to accept that it's their choice to run from the popo, and if they hurt themselves trying to escape the consequences of their actions, well, they Could Have Just Stopped.



What if such players hurt/kill others while trying to escape?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote
Yorkshire Geek wrote:
bigdom86 wrote:
I never got how someone crashing into you or stealing your item (if you are following the requirements in your insurance) should affect your premiums, they really need to re-think how insurance is done, it is not surprising people drive/ride without insurance

Statistically you're a higher risk. People who get hit by someone else or have something stolen once are more likely to have it happen to them again, hence cost of insurance goes up.

Actuarial tables are brutal, but they're deadly accurate.

...except for Paddy.
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:
TaffyTDM wrote:

Weed pusher or twocer, whatever, in my mind doesnt carry a death sentance ... ... But that's the game. And players (or their families/guardian readers/other snowflakes) have to accept that it's their choice to run from the popo, and if they hurt themselves trying to escape the consequences of their actions, well, they Could Have Just Stopped.



What if such players hurt/kill others while trying to escape?


Then they are responsible and should be punished as such. Not the person society places there to stop them on our behalf. When the burden is placed on the wrong side, we get what we are seeing now.
It's precisely because of the risk these idiots pose to others that I support the "tactic" of ramming them off the road after they have taken the decision to not stop, and it should be seconds and without further cause than a routine check, rather than waiting for the right driver, knowing what they have just done etc. All the risk of harm should stay with the aspiring DJ twisting the grip. They are now so confident in their untouchability it's a matter of time before they all get out one night together and cause absolute carnage.
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
TaffyTDM wrote:

TaffyTDM wrote:

Weed pusher or twocer, whatever, in my mind doesnt carry a death sentance ...




It's precisely because of the risk these idiots pose to others that I support the "tactic" of ramming them off the road after they have taken the decision to not stop, and it should be seconds and without further cause than a routine check, rather than waiting for the right driver, knowing what they have just done etc. All the risk of harm should stay with the aspiring DJ twisting the grip.



I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but returning to the above points ..

I think I understand where you are coming from, but the thought of using "ramming" as a standard every-day tactic doesn't hold up well to reality.

To give an example - if I drive a police car, stop another vehicle and then I get out to speak to the driver, what's to stop him then driving off? I can't ram him until I run back to the car and get going again, in which case I'm already behind him, chasing to catch up. Ditto for a motorbike, but by then he's already further ahead.

If I'm in a double-crewed police vehicle and my passenger gets out, can I risk ramming the other vehicle while my colleague is standing in close proximity?

The standard "stop" that we're all familiar with also has the police vehicle behind the other vehicle. Ramming a vehicle ahead of you risks disabling the steering/engine of the police vehicle without damaging the same parts of the target vehicle.

Can I justify pre-emptively ramming a vehicle before attempting to stop it using blue lights and sirens? Well, perhaps, yes - if the offence and risk posed by the occupant is serious/high enough. However it would require a sea-change in public opinion and therefore law and policy before that would be allowed for less serious offences. There's also quite a risk of injury to the police driver, even at relatively low speeds, which then means you've risked your continued career if you don't/can't recover fully. In effect, you're asking a police driver to take the same risks (to himself) when pursuing a stolen motorbike as he might in pursuing an armed murderer.

If I ram a moving vehicle, what's to stop it colliding with other vehicles or pedestrians before coming to a halt? - the point being that police pursuits by and large don't take place in sterile controlled areas, which is why there's such an emphasis on risk assessment (see the CoP APP again.)
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
One of those cargo nets with weights in, fired from some kind of car mounted gun - happy days.

If these people are going to go around swinging hammers at the public in order to steal bikes / gear then the law needs to take its head out of its Euronanny ass and get tough on these vile low lifes.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Yorkshire Geek wrote:
Actuarial tables are brutal, but they're deadly accurate.

...except for Paddy.

Paddy seems to have confused them by going off the scale, but the premise is that to lose one bike may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.

Or rather, a serial claimant just getting started. Once you've had two claims, a third and a fourth and... are increasingly likely[*] to follow. In that respect, Paddy's history is entirely consistent.

From the insurer's point of view, they don't care if you're an honest but unlucky victim or a pikey fraudster. Claims in the several-thousand range are particularly bad for them since it costs them that much to investigate them[*] (and the cost gets passed on to us either way).

[*] Anecdotally from a fraud analyst.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:



If I ram a moving vehicle, what's to stop it colliding with other vehicles or pedestrians before coming to a halt? - the point being that police pursuits by and large don't take place in sterile controlled areas, which is why there's such an emphasis on risk assessment (see the CoP APP again.)


But I've seen the Hollywood movies, where dozens of police cars get mangled and loads of property gets blown sky high, in the middle of teeming cities; no one ever gets hurt though! (in the same way that guns can't actually be dangerous, as they loose off thousands of rounds in those movies, and no one actually gets shot....leastways, not the good guys). Are you telling me that Hollywood is just fantasy? It can't be! Sad
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:
TaffyTDM wrote:

TaffyTDM wrote:

Weed pusher or twocer, whatever, in my mind doesnt carry a death sentance ...




It's precisely because of the risk these idiots pose to others that I support the "tactic" of ramming them off the road after they have taken the decision to not stop, and it should be seconds and without further cause than a routine check, rather than waiting for the right driver, knowing what they have just done etc. All the risk of harm should stay with the aspiring DJ twisting the grip.



I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but returning to the above points ..

I think I understand where you are coming from, but the thought of using "ramming" as a standard every-day tactic doesn't hold up well to reality.

To give an example - if I drive a police car, stop another vehicle and then I get out to speak to the driver, what's to stop him then driving off? I can't ram him until I run back to the car and get going again, in which case I'm already behind him, chasing to catch up. Ditto for a motorbike, but by then he's already further ahead.

If I'm in a double-crewed police vehicle and my passenger gets out, can I risk ramming the other vehicle while my colleague is standing in close proximity?

The standard "stop" that we're all familiar with also has the police vehicle behind the other vehicle. Ramming a vehicle ahead of you risks disabling the steering/engine of the police vehicle without damaging the same parts of the target vehicle.

Can I justify pre-emptively ramming a vehicle before attempting to stop it using blue lights and sirens? Well, perhaps, yes - if the offence and risk posed by the occupant is serious/high enough. However it would require a sea-change in public opinion and therefore law and policy before that would be allowed for less serious offences. There's also quite a risk of injury to the police driver, even at relatively low speeds, which then means you've risked your continued career if you don't/can't recover fully. In effect, you're asking a police driver to take the same risks (to himself) when pursuing a stolen motorbike as he might in pursuing an armed murderer.

If I ram a moving vehicle, what's to stop it colliding with other vehicles or pedestrians before coming to a halt? - the point being that police pursuits by and large don't take place in sterile controlled areas, which is why there's such an emphasis on risk assessment (see the CoP APP again.)


No offence taken. I'm talking specifically about powerered 2 wheelers, ie mopeds and motorcycles - because unlike cars, They are very hard to catch, there is a proliferation of them being used to enable violent crime and the damage to a police car in forcefully stopping them is likley to be less damaging to the taxpayers car than when tried against a vehicle
A change of law isn't needed - s163 rta provides the power to stop a vehicle and s3 CLA provides the framework for police to use reasonable force to enforce the law.
There does need to be a change in public opinion to help educate the court as to what is reasonable force in making pedboi pull over with due regard to the risk posed to the police and others if a Chase happens, and the understanding that plod are far more likley to come across him on his way to commiring a crime, than in the act itself. Despite the theory, the reality is there are very few lesser tactical options. 5 to 10 seconds lights and sirens up your chuff is enough time to get the point across and once the intentions of the rider are clear, the next escalation that's effective is to end it there and then by punting him off.

If however, that's not what the public want, fine, but you will see the bikejackings, smash and grabs and robberys continue
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
My (completely unevidenced) view is also after day 2 of my final solution being enacted is that the instances of fail to stop will decrease drastically after the first byklyf funeral that in the bigger oicture, the public will be safer, as will the scum
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
TaffyTDM wrote:
A change of law isn't needed - s163 rta provides the power to stop a vehicle

It makes it an offence not to stop for a constable in uniform. Anyone can attempt to stop a vehicle.

As you say, it comes down to the interpretation of reasonable force. Where I'd concentrate is on the CPS / Fiscal and their penchant for prosecuting coppers for mashing up pikeys.

In all the recent cases of which I'm aware, courts have rightly thrown them out. But the prosecutions - and the effect they have on police behaviour - shouldn't be happening in the first place.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
If it was up to me I'd have them let me loose with the anti-material rifle.

But it's not, so I shall shake my fist and grumble whilst slurping my tea.
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gorillaonabik...
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 14 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
@OP. Sorry to hear that. Me too...

There's a lot of it about.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 15 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
UncleBFester wrote:
One of those cargo nets with weights in, fired from some kind of car mounted gun - happy days.


Like a bigger version of these things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg9wOwuoTQo

Quote:

If these people are going to go around swinging hammers at the public in order to steal bikes / gear then the law needs to take its head out of its Euronanny ass and get tough on these vile low lifes.


All fun and games until police decide that you haven't stopped quick enough after they see you going 5 miles over the limit and ram you into a hedge.
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 15 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://bikerandbike.co.uk/biker-vigilantes-against-motorcycle-thieves/

And it starts.[/quote]
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 15 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Funny enough a long time ago in the 00s there was a police check point on a 40mph road.

A woman cop jumped out from behind a building and gestured me to stop. I stopped about 50 metres down the road and got a grilling for this. Even the DVLA guide says a car takes 38 metres to stop from 40mph.
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