What on road/off road(ish) bike?

[Monkeypony]

After much contemplation, I've decided it just wouldn't be fair to put my current bike through the misery of winter riding (yes, I know it's not really even summer yet, but bear with me).

I've always fancied picking up a second bike, with a thought do do a bit of green lane riding every now any then if the mood takes, so it would make some sort of sense to get a machine that can handle that as well.

I know next to nothing of what's out there in this category though, so I'd like a bit of advice from those in the know please!

Requirements are:

Road legal
<600cc
4 stroke
off road capable
Reliable
£2-3k
Not too high, so a 5ft4 Mrs Monkeypony can borrow it without needing a step ladder (to be fair, this isn't that important, she can buy her bloody own!! )

A little point in the right direction would be very handy please chaps
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Current bike - 2018 H2-SX, 2004 SV1000s, 2016 Aprilia RSV4 RF, 2017 Sherco SERF 300, 2003 Suzuki DRZ400 (stolen - AY53 JUU)

[Polarbear]

My friends who do a lot of green lane riding have specific bikes for that purpose. One of the popular ones is a Yamaha WR450. The problem with that is, as far as I am aware, it is only daylight road legal. No lights and shit and absolute crap on road due to gearing. I think the same applies to the Honda CRF range.

My friends idea of green laneing is six foot deep puddles and mud baths mind Maybe there is something less extreme but I don't know.

How about an old Africa Twin
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Monkeypony]

Yea, annoyingly, headlights are a bit of a must have!

An Africa twin in reasonable condition seems to be right at the top of, or a tad over budget, and is probably a bit bigger than I had in mind.
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Current bike - 2018 H2-SX, 2004 SV1000s, 2016 Aprilia RSV4 RF, 2017 Sherco SERF 300, 2003 Suzuki DRZ400 (stolen - AY53 JUU)

[ADSrox0r]

A later Pegaso fits the bill. Not going to set your world on fire but bucketloads of torque and fun in the twisties and happy to do trail work all day.
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Current bikes: '08 VFR 800 VTEC(yo) , '07 ZZR1400 Winter hack: '95 Aprilia 650 Pegaso Currently lusting after: RC30

[ScaredyCat]

[Monkeypony]

[Rogerborg]

Since we've blown the <600cc requirement:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_dcat=9915&Model%2520Year=2006%7C2005%7C2004%7C2003%7C2002%7C2000&_nkw=f650gs&_sop=15

Feel free to ignore the ridiculously priced dealer bikes.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Wonko The Sane]

Ed March: "Honda C90"
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[ADSrox0r]

To clarify Rogerborg's input; the BMW F650 is functionally almost identical to the Aprilia Pegaso 650. Same engine, with some differences but on the whole a clone. Take your pick of BMW prices for parts vs Aprilia. You're already in the Aprilia camp so you know the whole can-only-buy-from-Italy game.
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Current bikes: '08 VFR 800 VTEC(yo) , '07 ZZR1400 Winter hack: '95 Aprilia 650 Pegaso Currently lusting after: RC30

[Rogerborg]

If you can find a BMW 'X' bike it'll be lighter and more powerful than the GS, but there's precious few of them around because, well, they didn't call them GSes.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Monkeypony]

My leanings seem to be a bit more towards something like a Suzuki DRZ400 and a spare set of wheels for the other tyre choice. Mainly because, Japanese. Cheap parts.

No experience of owning or riding them though, other than a day spend bombing around Menorca a couple of years ago, on super smooth roads.

On paper though, they seem to be a reasonable compromise between on and off road.

Anyone have any experience of them?
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Current bike - 2018 H2-SX, 2004 SV1000s, 2016 Aprilia RSV4 RF, 2017 Sherco SERF 300, 2003 Suzuki DRZ400 (stolen - AY53 JUU)

[Monkeywrenche...]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Going off road w/out knobblies is bloody hard unless you're pretty experienced. An inch or two of mud for more than a few yards - especially on cambering paths and tackling elevation changes - can be quite a handful. The bike will probably be going over a few times unless it's on something like AC10s. And while something over 140kg will be easy enough to pick up the first couple of drops, you'll be knackered after the fifth time.

So you put knobblies on a light bike - but that's probably going to be a 4t 250 single - otherwise you're getting into competition bike territory w/ valve checks every 4 hours. Of the former I suppose the WR250F is the best - comes with lights and signals. But it's dearer than the KLX250 and even the CRF250L iirc. Put knobblies on these and you're not going to get a hell of a lot more than 3k miles out of them if you're spending 80% *on* road. So you could be wasting rubber.

Also, on the road these bikes are pants. 70 tops. More like 60. Feels a lot faster though because shit tyres, wide bars and general instability. Quite fun in a way.

I personally wouldn't go near something like a Pegaso unless on the tamest, most vanilla green lanes in dust-dry conditions. Basically, it's hard to have a bike that does both. A DRZ400 is good - but iirc over 140kg, and - like all the others - needs proper knobblies in a climate like the UK where mud, slime and wet grass are more the norm than the exception.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[Monkeypony]

[Nope.]

[G]

WR450 is a competition enduro bike. Not a great commuter. You can get ones with lighting options. That and the CRF have maintenance listed in hours.

An Africa twin would be a hideously heavy introduction to off roading.

Pegaso even worse than the Dakar for starting out getting muddy.

Now I've slagged everyone else's suggestions off...
The BMW-X I do like, apart from rarity - bit better commuting than the KTM690 And Husky TE610, but less good off road.

DRZ gives you the weight of the KTM with 2/3rds the power if you go for the S. E a bit better, but less good for commuting. Or get a CCM404e which uses the same engine.



As suggested I'd definitely look to have knobblies - a bike that comes with SM for the road and enduro for off road.

Why focus on cc?
Any reason you want a 4 stroke?
Will Mrs be riding off road?

I think overall an X-Country would best match your wants.

[Monkeypony]

[Monkeypony]

[G]

Not too specifically for weight - ie the KTM 690 weighs less than a lot of lower capacity bikes and something like the Husaberg 650 weighs massively less than most 250cc 4 strokes and even some 2 strokes!

But, would probably need a lot more tinkering than say a KMX 2 stroke.

If you've got some off-road experience, you might be ok on a heavier bike, but for starting out I'd always suggest staying light.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[stevo as b4]

I'd have default suggested a well proven older simple but goody bike like an XR250/400, or a DR/XT 350 etc.

Best off roader for making it easy I ever used was a WR250F, but not so sure on one as a road bike.

If you get a simple, clean tidy older Jap bike and one that were sold in 1000's, then parts should be cheaper and easy to get compared to exotic European bikes.

If I was a novice off roader, but wanting to spunk my cash on a trick orange bike, I'd give it second thoughts, firstly as you might keep dropping it and breaking things, and also as KTM parts seem to be mail order and bloody expensive, but they are probably quicker to obtain than say Italian bike parts generally.

I'd want to be a bloody decent off road rider personally before I'd even consider a 500cc+ bike and all the extra weight that entails.

[Monkeypony]

[stevo as b4]

Ive said before, but I remember going to a local trial once where most of the older guys had nice light modern Beta's and Gasgas bikes.

A younger guy that was obviously a bit of an expert, rocked up on a Honda XL600R all std with indicators and full instruments etc. It had trials tyres on it too. The bloke cleaned every section in the clubman class at least once as the course got more muddy etc. Many of the boys on their pro TXT Gasgas bikes were paddling around and getting stuck.

I dunno how much a Honda XL600R weighs, but it was a good example of what G said in that the rider makes the bike competitive.

[DRZ4Hunned]

I like my DRZ, feels a bit bland now I've got used to it but really reliable and handles green lanes well. I can swap my wheels over from SM to offroad in about 15 mins.
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DRZ400-SM
FZS600