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Insurance Minefield, do I need to declare?

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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 02:56 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Insurance Minefield, do I need to declare? Reply with quote

So about a year back, some dickhead stole my bike and dumped it in a bush down the street...
Patricia Popo couldn't wake me up with my earplugs in, so she called the Insurance.
My insurer then tried to start a theft claim on a TPO policy Rolling Eyes

Despite very sage BCF advice, I got complacent and didn't follow up with the complaint.
Ignored the entire matter hoping it would go away, and it did.

Now it comes to getting a new policy, I want to be above board, but the following question I don't know how I should answer:
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/loss.jpg

It's the bit about "...or if a claim is made" that makes me think I might be screwed, how do I stay legal but not fuck myself?

I should add, I got my 1 yr NCB notification in the renewal reminder.
However I wonder is a claim seperate from a loss and I'm obliged to detail it?
Is it still a "loss" if I got it back? (at a ransom)
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defblade
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PostPosted: 07:06 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: Insurance Minefield, do I need to declare? Reply with quote

Commuter_Tim wrote:

Is it still a "loss" if I got it back? (at a ransom)


Until you mentioned "at a ransom", I was thinking if the bike was dumped in a bush and then you got it back and it was OK, you've had no loss. There is no way the police's charge will be recorded in any place that insurance will have access to... and anyway, it's an expense, not a loss... if a recovery/storage fee counts as a loss, then everyone who has broken down and been recovered or ever paid for parking has had a "loss".

I'd cheerfully tick "no" and if anyone ever queries it, "Police found my bike before I even knew it was gone, I got the bike back, no loss, no claim."
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:14 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Accident? No
Claims? No
Losses? No

So no then.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:27 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Losses? No

Police stole it and blackmailed him for a recovery fee.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:30 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
arry wrote:
Losses? No

Police stole it and blackmailed him for a recovery fee.


Did the insurance pay it, or did the OP pay out of his own pocket?

If you paid it, then no problem. Thumbs Up
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Last edited by Wafer_Thin_Ham on 18:43 - 03 Jun 2017; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Did the insurnace pay it, or did the OP pay out of his own pocket?

If you paid it, then no problem. Thumbs Up

"Have you had any motor accidents, claims or losses in the past 5 years, no matter who was at fault or if a claim was made?"

I'm not saying that OP should declare it, but the broker/comparison site is.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
arry wrote:
Losses? No

Police stole it and blackmailed him for a recovery fee.


I'd argue he's had no losses related to motor insurance; that's no different to having to pay to get your car back after it got towed.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try it, they'll soon let you know if you're wrong Smile
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't mention if it was for another TPO policy, but as arry says, NO.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Did the insurnace pay it, or did the OP pay out of his own pocket?

If you paid it, then no problem. Thumbs Up

"Have you had any motor accidents, claims or losses in the past 5 years, no matter who was at fault or if a claim was made?"

I'm not saying that OP should declare it, but the broker/comparison site is.


However if it was never recorded by the insurance company, how are they to know? I.e. if the OP paid out of his own pocket. Inital post merely says insurance tried to start a claim for theft on a TPO policy. (Given a theft would have nothing to do with them) the OP should be pretty safe.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Police stole it and blackmailed him for a recovery fee.

Did the insurnace pay it, or did the OP pay out of his own pocket?
If you paid it, then no problem. Thumbs Up

Let's be clear now, Rog didn't pay my ransom. Razz

M.C wrote:
Try it, they'll soon let you know if you're wrong Smile

Good point, their wording is confusing, so there is no intent to mislead on my part.
Plus the cheapest guys are the same ones this shit all happened with anyway, so as you mention they should bring it up if they think the answer should be yes.
Yeah I am stupid enough to re-sign back up with same people, it's the cheapest. Smile

So it sounds like I can reasonably state I have incurred no motor insurance losses, hopefully if I'm wrong the worst that would happen is I end up having to pay whatever extortionately increased rates they come up with?

That image was from Comparethemarket anyway, will find out shortly if the actual insurer offers different phrasing.
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The above post is most likely nonsensical.

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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

They might do, or they might as with polarbear's daughter (Wub) cancel the policy, although I believe that was for incorrectly declaring an accident.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 03 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
They might do, or they might as with polarbear's daughter (Wub) cancel the policy, although I believe that was for incorrectly declaring an accident.


I sincerely hope not.
I was under the impression that genuine misunderstandings on either side were simply rectified (subject to gouging) and not subject to cancellation?
However I wouldn't even know where to start trying to find out the law in regards to people suffering a misunderstanding signing up for insurance.
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The above post is most likely nonsensical.

I ride a Bandit 600... badly.
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 04 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIDRA 2012 disclosure and misrepresentation.
https://www.mills-reeve.com/mulling-over-cidra/

Deliberate versus careless the important marker. Note insurer can still avoid the policy if the truth had been known they can solidly prove they'd not have taken the policy at any terms - so if you are going to lie and pretend ignorance then you wouldn't want to be doing it with something you're pretty sure is going to be outside of a standard motor insurer underwriting strategy (criminal conviction, for example). Something they'd accept at just more premium? Most of the time they'd just make you pay the additional premium. If it's serious enough though, they'll proportional remedy you and that can work out bad.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 04 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
CIDRA 2012 disclosure and misrepresentation.
https://www.mills-reeve.com/mulling-over-cidra/

Deliberate versus careless the important marker. Note insurer can still avoid the policy if the truth had been known they can solidly prove they'd not have taken the policy at any terms - so if you are going to lie and pretend ignorance then you wouldn't want to be doing it with something you're pretty sure is going to be outside of a standard motor insurer underwriting strategy (criminal conviction, for example). Something they'd accept at just more premium? Most of the time they'd just make you pay the additional premium. If it's serious enough though, they'll proportional remedy you and that can work out bad.


That's fairly re-assuring thanks.
I think they would have trouble proving they wouldn't have insured me otherwise, since with their prior knowledge they still sent me a renewal and were ready to autorenew until I called them.

The renewal price was a fair amount more than what I actually signed back up with them for (but less than the original year) and they were only taking into account 1 year NCD rather than my actual 4. (I was using them on another vehicle, now sold).

Those Insurance/comparison bitches need to elaborate more with their words, for people who take wording so seriously when playing with peoples finances, they are more vague and confusing than Adam fucking Aarons. Sad

When the comparison site redirected me to the insurers, they offered no further questioning, or revision of questions asked, so the wording above is really all I had to go on.


I'm curious what proportional remedy means in this circumstance though, does their "remedy" often end in cancellation or just a black mark?
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The above post is most likely nonsensical.

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arry
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 04 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proportional remedy has two routes:
1 - they make you pay the additional premium you would have paid had they have known, which ain't so bad or;
2 - they reduce the value of your claim by the ratio your original premium bears to your amended premium. That can be pretty rough if you should have paid 200 quid but only paid 100 quid, that's 50 of the value of your claim gone.

In most circumstances, FOS would rule for option 1; unless the disclosure was extremely careless and the premium difference quite severe.
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