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| skatefreak |
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skatefreak
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 Posted: 09:22 - 24 May 2017  Post subject: |
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Don't be so Racist! Clearly a mere coincidence... Move along... |
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| Mark_F |
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Mark_F
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Mark_F
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:00 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Mark_F wrote: | | Rogerborg wrote: | You get that the most recent snackbar was carried out by a "refugee", right? |
Born in Manchester? With a brother born in London? That's a national, not a refugee (despite the status of his parents). |
Born here because we accepted refugees. The cause of him being in the country is the same. You could make the argument that his victims weren't killed by the explosion, they just got nuts and bolts embedded in them somehow.
| Mark_F wrote: | I'll add that many of your points seem reasonable, it's just that they wouldn't make any difference. |
Preventing the entry of and expelling potential snackbar wouldn't make a difference?
Why's that? If the answer is "because it would radicalise more moderates", then sure, in the same way that those people would be radicalised by any action that we take in the Allahhistan, or any action that we don't take.
Then we deport them too. Bribing nations to take them as necessary. £12 billion a year.
____________________
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| jjdugen |
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jjdugen
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Posted: 10:01 - 24 May 2017  Post subject: |
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Maybe I'm missing something in this debate. Following the logics expressed variously in these threads, Muslims = Bad, White = Good, (to break it down into simplistic terms).
And yet, fifty years ago a cornerstone of the Anglo Saxon genus was busily murdering men, women and children on an industrial scale.
These were not unwashed, uneducated tribesmen, they were the flower of European 'civilisation'.
This was done with the, sometimes, tacit support of the general population. And this was no deep seated belief spanning centuries, it was formed, fostered and accepted within the space of ten years.
We it would seem, are just as capable of embracing genocidal views and pretty damn good at organising its outcome.
So, why are we not engaged in a sporadic, but lethal, confrontation with the children of Deutchland? Could it be that we stopped shooting them and accepted that friendship, assistance and support works better than vilification?
I accept that the natural reaction to mindless atrocity is to strike out and seek vengeance....... But..........
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| BTTD |
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BTTD
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| Posted: 10:12 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| jjdugen wrote: | Maybe I'm missing something in this debate. Following the logics expressed variously in these threads, Muslims = Bad, White = Good, (to break it down into simplistic terms).
And yet, fifty years ago a cornerstone of the Anglo Saxon genus was busily murdering men, women and children on an industrial scale.
These were not unwashed, uneducated tribesmen, they were the flower of European 'civilisation'.
This was done with the, sometimes, tacit support of the general population. And this was no deep seated belief spanning centuries, it was formed, fostered and accepted within the space of ten years.
We it would seem, are just as capable of embracing genocidal views and pretty damn good at organising its outcome.
So, why are we not engaged in a sporadic, but lethal, confrontation with the children of Deutchland? Could it be that we stopped shooting them and accepted that friendship, assistance and support works better than vilification?
I accept that the natural reaction to mindless atrocity is to strike out and seek vengeance....... But.......... |
I'm genuinely surprised that the above quote is what you've taken from this thread - I've missed the posts demanding vengeance and death. |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:28 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| jjdugen wrote: | Following the logics expressed variously in these threads, Muslims = Bad, White = Good, (to break it down into simplistic terms). |
Sure, if you want to make it a brown vs white issue. islam isn't a race though. There are plenty of ginger zealots.
It's an ideology, like Naziism. Very like Naziism. It declares itself to be superior and perfect to all other ideologies, it demands expansion, it demands conquest, it demands the extermination of jews and gays, it believes that women are for breeding the next generation of soldiers, it inculcates from youth, and you don't get to leave it.
| jjdugen wrote: | So, why are we not engaged in a sporadic, but lethal, confrontation with the children of Deutchland? Could it be that we stopped shooting them and accepted that friendship, assistance and support works better than vilification? |
First we bombed them into starvation and abject submission.
Then we stopped shooting.
We won through terror, one might say.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Mark_F |
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Mark_F
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| Posted: 10:28 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | Mark_F wrote: |
Born in Manchester? With a brother born in London? That's a national, not a refugee (despite the status of his parents). |
Born here because we accepted refugees. The cause of him being in the country is the same. You could make the argument that his victims weren't killed by the explosion, they just got nuts and bolts embedded in them somehow.
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You forget the massive holes in people (literal).
So we stop absolutely everyone having any access onto this fair isle? How could that be done in practise? It's entirely unfeasable (even if you increase taxes by 1000% to pay for it). I know you've pointed out the apparent ease of Australias policies, however Australia is much more difficult to access by sea (having a distance greater than 20 miles from the nearest major landmass). Some of the determined who want to get here and do something will slip in regardless. Can't catch em all.
| Rogerborg wrote: | Preventing the entry of and expelling potential snackbar wouldn't make a difference?
Why's that? If the answer is "because it would radicalise more moderates", then sure, in the same way that those people would be radicalised by any action that we take in the Allahhistan, or any action that we don't take.
Then we deport them too. Bribing nations to take them as necessary. £12 billion a year. |
Some could be stopped from entering (as presumably some are stopped now), but stopping every single snackbar entering is impossible.
Radicalising more moderates just turns more people into mpd. People who talk, but would never have the balls to actually do (and on the occasion that one actually does something, they would probably add more to our problems than cause snackbar any inconvenience).
Regarding deporting them, I'm sure that does happen currently (along with restricting the access of those wannabe warriors who jumped into syria) and should continue, but some will still slip through the net (likely the same people who are slipping through the current nets).
I just don't see that much difference would be made. |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:35 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Mark_F wrote: | So we stop absolutely everyone having any access onto this fair isle? |
We could let some strawmen in.
What part of "points based immigration" confused you?
| Mark_F wrote: | Can't catch em all. |
Only allah is perfect. We could catch most of them. We could keep most of them out.
| Mark_F wrote: | stopping every single snackbar entering is impossible. |
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
Why even bother having police, courts and gaols? Some people will still commit crimes.
| Mark_F wrote: | Regarding deporting them, I'm sure that does happen currently |
Barely. Only 5% of those ordered for deportation are actually kicked out, according to a UK immigration judge who had to speak anonymously. Justice Bernard McCloskey just had a good rant about abuse of the system by taxpayer funded shysters though. And he's far from a send 'em back immigration judge.
| Mark_F wrote: | I just don't see that much difference would be made. |
That's because you've already surrendered in your head.
How much jizya are you prepared to pay in order to feel safe?
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| Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah
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| Posted: 10:47 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | Mark_F wrote: | This "civil war" you postulated about in the other thread is unwinnable. By both sides. I'll add that there's nothing I've seen you suggest that would be anymore helpful than handing out baloons and asking nicely. |
| Rogerborg wrote: |
 Withdraw entirely from all military operations in all muslim countries. Wish the septics the very best of luck. Remove all possible excuses.
Revoke the 1972 ECA.
Withdrawn from the ECJ and ECHR.
Halt all Saudi funding of mosques.
Rename the Department for International Development as the Department for Internal Deradicalisation (they won't even have to change their mouse mats and mugs). Direct its £12 billion of funding at deporting snackbar preachers (we already know who they are), bribing dusty armpits whatever is necessary to take them
When that creates a new tranche of snackbar advocates, deport them too. Repeat as necessary. £12 billion, remember.
Revoke citizenship and shred passports on exit, both for ejected snackbars, and for those headed for a jihad holiday. Again, we already have a list. The problem is a reactive policy, an assumption of innocence, and letting the feckers back in again.
Secure our borders. Immigration only on a points system. Being muslim or from a muslim nation scores negative a trillion. No fugees. No "right to a family life" mass imports. Not our problem.
And most importantly, cut all welfare funding and access to all services including and especially legal aid for anyone with foreign or dual citizenship. The only funding should be for one way outgoing flights, and bribing despots to take their problems back.
Note the lack of cattle trucks, gas chambers or images of wailing families being thrown onto flights. |
Which specific points do you have a problem with?
Why do you think handing out baloons (sic) would be as helpful as refusing entry to "refugees"?
You get that the most recent snackbar was carried out by a "refugee", right? |
I have an issue with the first point but the others are good. We don't want to be seen to surrender to terrorist demands by getting out of their countries while they continue to ruin ours.
| mpd72 wrote: |
Most of them tend to be first generation immigrants. We invite them in for safety and they breed jihadists to kill our children. Nice. |
Markers for Islamic terrorists:
+ Muslim
+ Parents migrated to the UK, possibly as refugees (1st Gen migrant)
+ Strong feelings about Palestine/Israel
+ Involved in low level crime (e.g theft, assaults)
+ Middle Eastern, North African or Ginger
+ Attend extremist Mosque
| Mark_F wrote: |
You forget the massive holes in people (literal).
So we stop absolutely everyone having any access onto this fair isle? How could that be done in practise? It's entirely unfeasable (even if you increase taxes by 1000% to pay for it). I know you've pointed out the apparent ease of Australias policies, however Australia is much more difficult to access by sea (having a distance greater than 20 miles from the nearest major landmass). Some of the determined who want to get here and do something will slip in regardless. Can't catch em all. |
No, they would never ever get here. Very few migrants cross on small boats across the channel, they use ferry and airliner services. They come as refugees or overstay their student visa. As for boats these are trivially stopped using radar along with intercepts from boats and helicopters. The government can quite cheaply stick a chain of radars along the coast and on platforms at sea. The biggest cost would be delays at airport and ferry terminals. Again the government has already spent the money for staffing and equipment to carry out such a policy. |
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| lihp |
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lihp
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Mark_F
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| Posted: 10:57 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | What part of "points based immigration" confused you? |
The fact that it wouldn't particularly do anything. This snackbars parents may well be model immigrants, but that points based system would say nothing about the future children of a well pointed applicant.
| Rogerborg wrote: |
Only allah is perfect. We could catch most of them. We could keep most of them out. |
We (possibly) already do. I'm suggesting that extra measures aren't likely to make a great deal of difference.
| Rogerborg wrote: | The perfect is the enemy of the good.
Why even bother having police, courts and gaols? Some people will still commit crimes. |
You said it best yourself: | Rogerborg wrote: | We could let some strawmen in |
| Rogerborg wrote: |
Barely. Only 5% of those ordered for deportation are actually kicked out, according to a UK immigration judge who had to speak anonymously. Justice Bernard McCloskey just had a good rant about abuse of the system by taxpayer funded shysters though. And he's far from a send 'em back immigration judge. |
5% of all sorts of nationals kicked out for a wide variety of reasons. Fixing this doesn't really need extra measures, it needs more effective use of current measures (probably with increased funding to provide more manpower).
| Rogerborg wrote: |
That's because you've already surrendered in your head. |
Not at all. I accepted my death is inevitable long ago, and more recently determined that I'm not for letting snackbar turn me into a whining, cowering, idiot prior to my end. |
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| Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah
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Mark_F
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| Posted: 11:14 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | jjdugen wrote: | Following the logics expressed variously in these threads, Muslims = Bad, White = Good, (to break it down into simplistic terms). |
Sure, if you want to make it a brown vs white issue. islam isn't a race though. There are plenty of ginger zealots.
It's an ideology, like Naziism. Very like Naziism. It declares itself to be superior and perfect to all other ideologies, it demands expansion, it demands conquest, it demands the extermination of jews and gays, it believes that women are for breeding the next generation of soldiers, it inculcates from youth, and you don't get to leave it. |
Reads quite a lot like the 'in-group vs out-group' thing Itchy alluded to.
Try this:
| Quote: | Sure, if you want to make it a brown vs white issue. the west isn't a race though. There are plenty of brown infidels.
It's an ideology, like Naziism. Very like Naziism. It declares itself to be superior and perfect to all other ideologies, it demands expansion, it demands conquest, it demands the extermination of Muslims, it believes that women are for tits and gary, it inculcates from youth, and you don't get to leave it. |
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Rogerborg
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Mark_F
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| BTTD |
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BTTD
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 11:48 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Don't recall many Muslamic attacks in Ireland, yet apparently there's loads there.
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 11:57 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Mark_F wrote: | | Rogerborg wrote: | What part of "minus a jillion points if you identify as a muslim or come from a majority muslim country" confused you? |
The fact that such paranoid bias has no place in a well formed points system. |
It's certainly got no part in an ineffectual, self deceptive one.
That's not inevitable though, with the right degree of honesty and resolution. Again: no constitution, and we can withdraw from the ECJ and ECHR.
You're awfully keen to find reasons why things won't work. Public sector, perchance?
| Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | Don't recall many Muslamic attacks in Ireland, yet apparently there's loads there. |
They don't constantly play tag-along in Daddy Murca's crusade to slaughter just enough muslims to make themselves hated but not enough to cow them with fear. See my #1 suggestion.
We're not defeating snackbar in the Middle East and Asia, we're metastasising it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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Posted: 12:05 - 24 May 2017  Post subject: |
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| Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | Don't recall many Muslamic attacks in Ireland, yet apparently there's loads there. |
No there isn't
At the time of the 2016 Irish census the number of Muslims had increased from 49,000 to 63,000, an increase of 29%. In 1991, the number of Muslims was below 4,000 (3,873). Islam is a minority religion in Ireland, behind Roman Catholicism and members of the Church of Ireland
Even at 63000 it's a lot easier to keep tabs on any extreme behavior compared with the 3 million in UK.
63000, peanuts,  More disillusioned people go and watch Manchester United on a Saturday.
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 12:08 - 24 May 2017 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | | Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | Don't recall many Muslamic attacks in Ireland, yet apparently there's loads there. |
No there isn't
At the time of the 2016 Irish census the number of Muslims had increased from 49,000 to 63,000, an increase of 29%. In 1991, the number of Muslims was below 4,000 (3,873). Islam is a minority religion in Ireland, behind Roman Catholicism and members of the Church of Ireland
Even at 63000 it's a lot easier to keep tabs on any extreme behavior compared with the 3 million in UK.
63000, peanuts, More disillusioned people go and watch Manchester United on a Saturday. |
Referring to bnp72's chart of attacks on the last page. So what you're saying is, bnp72's lying? 
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 337 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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