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oldpink
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the yanks know more than we do
first they publish his name before the cops wanted it known

now they are showing evidence of the device in open press and the cops are furious

Quote:
UK investigators have reacted with anger after a US newspaper published photos apparently showing the scene of the Manchester bomb attack.

Senior counter terrorism policing figures said the leak undermined their investigation and the confidence of victims and witnesses.

Earlier the UK home secretary said she was irritated with the US for releasing information about bomber Salman Abedi.

Amber Rudd said she had told Washington "it should not happen again".

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Sload
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Phew, that's a relief. Won't happen again then....


Not to intentionally go all Macron on you but it will. Even with the sternest hardest reaction we could muster, this will happen again, and again and again. This is a long haul now, we are signed up for the ride and there is no getting off.

The irony in a weird way is the security services that we eye with scepticism are our only true defence. Something about liberty, applause.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Not clicking on a dailyfail link (sorry), but normally known to the security services means they probably had him an eye on him at some point, yet didn't have the resources to keep him under surveillance.


A fellow peruser of kittens and tea?

However, that is precisely my point. They can't categorise the people they have, they can't process the amount of information they are collecting and they can't follow everyone. The sensible response would be to focus their resources, the actual response will be to demand more until they can surveil 25% of the population, 24/7.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
The irony in a weird way is the security services that we eye with scepticism are our only true defence. Something about liberty, applause.


It's not really irony. When people are scared they will throw every liberty under the bus in a futile attempt to feel safer.

[insert mangled Benjamin Franklin quote]

USA!USA!USA!....wait! what?
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Sload
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falco wrote:
However, that is precisely my point. They can't categorise the people they have, they can't process the amount of information they are collecting and they can't follow everyone. The sensible response would be to focus their resources, the actual response will be to demand more until they can surveil 25% of the population, 24/7.

Well ok a bit of actual irony of sorts I'll pull playing contrarian. Roger is right, reduce the number and you reduce the load on the system.

Brutal yes, I might not agree but you cannot argue with cold hard logic from a pragmatic sense.

Since I'm not up for supporting that methodology, what are the alternatives? (Apart from more money and authority).
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


You claimed universal Muslim tolerance Swampy. Even your average root vegetable knows the Muslims are the least tolerant twats on the planet.

They can't even tolerate different flavours of their own FFS.


I think you take that mantle. You don't tolerate ANYONE.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
Well ok a bit of actual irony of sorts I'll pull playing contrarian. Roger is right, reduce the number and you reduce the load on the system.

Brutal yes, I might not agree but you cannot argue with cold hard logic from a pragmatic sense.

Since I'm not up for supporting that methodology, what are the alternatives? (Apart from more money and authority).


Potentially. Problem with this method is the home-grown ones being radicalised over t' inter-webs. Can't stop that (have fun even trying to control the internet for anyone who isn't already law-abiding/tech-naive).

Maybe Ban Islam totally? That seems...infeasible.

Even if we shut the borders, toss out every suspected ISIS-sympathiser unto the 7th generation and so forth it won't stop the problem (at the SigInt end).

There is just too much information being collected to be sensibly sorted through and categorised. The (broad) ways to deal with this are to vastly expand the intelligence agencies or to reign them in and get them to perform targeted surveillance based on focused intel.

The great thing about the 2nd idea is that it requires both less money spent and less authority/ liberty ceded to the state in the name of illusory safety....but there is no appetite for it Sad
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


You claimed universal Muslim tolerance Swampy. Even your average root vegetable knows the Muslims are the least tolerant twats on the planet.

They can't even tolerate different flavours of their own FFS.


so what makes Christians any better
Catholic's and Protestants have been at war with each other for century's and until recently were bombing innocent children in Ireland and the Uk mainland
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Mark_F
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PostPosted: 23:39 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Mark_F wrote:


So you think you can get a truly representative reaction by deliberately inciting a negative reaction?

It still amazes me how you manage to breathe through your stupidity (and no, this isn't sarcasm).


You claimed universal Muslim tolerance Swampy. Even your average root vegetable knows the Muslims are the least tolerant twats on the planet.

They can't even tolerate different flavours of their own FFS.


So you're another one completely misrepresenting clear posts in this thread.

Odd that you have to make some shit up so you can feel better about yourself. Try harder.

mpd72 wrote:

Ha ha! Never seen Swampy so desperate to avoid a question, because he knows he can't without conceding his liberal "Hug a Muslim" mantra.

I can smell the sweat from here. Smile


I'm not avoiding a legitimate question. Borg is misdirecting, and using someone elses words as mine (they were your examples, not mine). I'm not getting dragged down in bullshit and hyperbole just so you lot feel better about begging to live in a police state, and I'll continue to call that bullshit out where I see it.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
The irony in a weird way is the security services that we eye with scepticism are our only true defence. Something about liberty, applause.

Well it's an odd one, they've foiled plots, even the ones that have succeeded have been by people already known to them, yet they want more access to people's data.

Falco wrote:
However, that is precisely my point. They can't categorise the people they have, they can't process the amount of information they are collecting and they can't follow everyone. The sensible response would be to focus their resources, the actual response will be to demand more until they can surveil 25% of the population, 24/7.

Maybe, I honestly don't know. If it's a case of (for example) 100 suspects yet they can only follow 50 then it's resources, as above I don't recall them ever saying this came out of nowhere. Sure having data on everyone (which they already have a lot of access to) might make their job easier, but for most people that's a step too far, especially with all the other potential misuses.
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DOS
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
mpd72 wrote:


You claimed universal Muslim tolerance Swampy. Even your average root vegetable knows the Muslims are the least tolerant twats on the planet.

They can't even tolerate different flavours of their own FFS.


I think you take that mantle. You don't tolerate ANYONE.


It's got be time you two took it to PM each outer
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Sload
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy Blake wrote:
It's got be time you two took it to PM each outer


better than a rerun of Friends.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
How are they losing the war in Syria with all these special skills?


Someone's actually winning the war in Syria, and it isn't a complete shitstorm still? Do tell!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falco wrote:
Maybe Ban Islam totally? That seems...infeasible.

Why totally? When Irish Republican Catholics were going bombastic, we didn't ban Christianity. We didn't even ban Catholicism or Irish Republican Catholics.

Ahmadis are part of the solution. Shia aren't a problem. Moderate Sunnis aren't a problem. Wahhabists, probably not.

Apolitical Salifists, keep an eye on them.

Salafi jihadists, there we go. That's what we mean when we talk coyly about "extremists", we just don't come out and say it.

Thin slices of the sausage, don't try to swallow it all at once.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 09:39 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
The irony in a weird way is the security services that we eye with scepticism are our only true defence. Something about liberty, applause.


There's no real defence against suicide bombers. If you increase police/security service presence in one area, they can move to another. All they need is a crowd.

As Thatcher said, don't give them the publicity they want, it's part of the battle. May, indeed any government, will use this to curtail the freedoms of ordinary people, there's already talk of killing off business for any UK computer security companyforcing UK companies to create backdoors in their encryption or services that use it.

Shame that they'd destroy UK computer security systems when any of these backdoors to decryption could be defeated with just a couple of dice and some paper.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaaaaand Corporate HQ is having a 1 minute silence today, to think about inclusiveness and teddy bears and candles.

With an alarm marking the start and end.

The same alarm that would sound in the event of a snackbar attack on the site.

Irony, or morony?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bombers dad scooped up by masked men in Libya during TV interviews.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldpink wrote:
So the yanks know more than we do
first they publish his name before the cops wanted it known

now they are showing evidence of the device in open press and the cops are furious

Quote:
UK investigators have reacted with anger after a US newspaper published photos apparently showing the scene of the Manchester bomb attack.

Senior counter terrorism policing figures said the leak undermined their investigation and the confidence of victims and witnesses.

Earlier the UK home secretary said she was irritated with the US for releasing information about bomber Salman Abedi.

Amber Rudd said she had told Washington "it should not happen again".


Not entirely true, they know the same as us.

Information we have shared with the US has been leaked. it's not information we don't have.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:

While he was actually saying him son a good boy, him dindu nuffin.

If that's the last that anyone ever hears of him, I'd be delighted. Knowing that your family will pay for your actions is pretty much the only possible deterrent to suicide bombers.

No, it's not justice, but they're not playing by the same rules. You can't punish or rehabilitate a pile of giblets.


Huh, the Daily Star (yes, I know, that's why I highlight it) are reporting that the Yanks have leaked that his own mum shopped him as a snackbarista.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 10:58 - 25 May 2017; edited 1 time in total
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK let's boil it down nice and simple just how I like things.
What do we as the general, mentally stable, masses of reasonable and balanced Western countries and Europe do then?

In actual fact let's fuck that, what do we whats left of the British original home race and British principles do about Islamic terrorism and ISIS?

1, carry on as normal, expect and accept attacks on our towns and people and get on with life, not giving any attention to the fanatics trying to destroy our land or take it over as an Islamic state/Muslim country?

2, Group together and go and smash some skulls? But who what and where? And can huge my guns and bombs are bigger than yours silence the middle east weirdos, a bit like the cold war?


I agree with not giving media attention to these events, to try and stop them getting worse and keeping our heads down and getting on with life, so we don't sensationalise these attacks for the jhaddis to have a wank over.

I also agree with free flights out of the UK, no immigrants being allowed to bring families over, and no asylum seekers or illegals allowed to put a toe on any of our shores. We need to bin over 10million people in this country just to make enough room, space, houses and schools for us to all live without killing each other because of overcrowding anyway. Who shall we cull or just round up and fly out to a frozen wildernesses?

I'm interested in this idea that we are as Itchy says too weak in the UK, too reserved and politically correct, and won't stand up to things or fight in a savage way to protect what we've got. I believe he once said this makes us weak, and a laughing stock to other nations, and also liable to take over, infiltration and even brainwashing?

Or is my final sad point, that we are already 20years too late, and the UK is finished, because of a melting pot of too many races and other nationalities living here, mixing, and making it their home. What does the average majority of proud to be British people look like these days? And what percentage of the UK residents would be prepared to stand up and fight in a war for Britain and it's greatness?

Lastly can anyone tell me is there a country or even city that is a melting pot with no defining race or majority people, that really does work well and they all live in harmony together and accept and tolerate and respect each other?
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 11:09 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
snip


Phil Campion agrees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_zRX-F9Qt0
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Aaaaaand Corporate HQ is having a 1 minute silence today, to think about inclusiveness and teddy bears and candles.

With an alarm marking the start and end.

The same alarm that would sound in the event of a snackbar attack on the site.

Irony, or morony?


We just had one here, in a campus library.

A moment of silence in a place that's already silent.

And of course it was at 11am because something something, never forget, fight them on the beaches, remember remember.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 25 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
STUFF


Excellent post.

If we are honest this country is a shit hole and going to get worse. Is it all due to immigration, no. Is a lot due to uncontrolled immigration, yes.

People go on about lazy wankers on the sink estates living on the dole and now it's true. But who pushed them into that corner. When I was brought up on a rough estate as a kid there was still pride in the country even though we were poor. So in 40ish years we have gone from a country that people were proud to serve to a shit hole full of grasping gimmes, uncontrolled youth and foreign ghettos where the police fear to tread.

I believe the Brexit was the older people who remember what the country was like and the younger people who haven't been brainwashed by the loony left (aka racists tm.Diane Abbott) trying to turn the clock back but even though we won, the remainers are already watering it down and down. I honestly believe the end result will be us being in EU in everything but name.

From the political point of view, I'm glad I'm old. I believe my generation is the last that will have any pride in this country. The kids coming through now just do not understand. I've shown my kids the 'Thank you for your sacrifice' letters and the medals my Gran got when her husband and his brother were killed on the Murmansk convoys during the war and seen their eyes glaze over into 'Dads on his high horse again' look. They aren't interested, it's just a piece out of the history books to them. (they are at least law abiding good kids though, so we did something right).

We will never bring back hanging. We will never openly arrest and incarcerate potential bombers because 'human rights'

The only way to change it would be a dictatorship or a method of government and a leader like Putin and do we want that.

Now where is my Blackshirt.
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