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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 10:59 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Valerian95 wrote: |
I still wanna hear Percy's beef with the crusades?
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All killing's bad.
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If ever a Christian from these groups committed an act like this there would be public outcry, it'd be considered shocking from the vast vast majority Christians- it would be so condemned.
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But the current situation isn't Islam v Christianity, it's Islam v the West.
Westerners have done equally bad things, e.g. NATO soldiers treating local non-threatening villagers like absolute dirt in their own country. Remember those videos showing blokes tied up, naked, treated like animals? Or the countless testimonies from ex US marines who said the entire thing was a fucked up trigger-happy mess? There was some outcry, but others seemed quite happy with pulling out all the stops and made allowances for whatever bad shit went on over there because it was a 'warzone' and as long as they were a sandnigger they were an enemy.
I'm not diagreeing with your points about ISIS folk being bad. I'm disagreeing with your point about how black and white it is, specially how you seem think our side has been whiter than white from day one.
Quote: | All these sympathisers like Percy love to say we need to find a solution but they don't actually propose any feasible solution. |
Cool I'm a sympathiser, that's an original label.
I would stop all military action in the middle east and stop immigration from that region for at least a decade or two, including tourist visas, work visas, the lot. Give the current Muslim population of the UK time to assimilate and become fully British without any renewed sense of connection to their cousins in Arabia. Much easier to achieve that after Brexit as well because nobody could sneak in on an EU visa or passport.
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Valerian95 |
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Valerian95 Banned
Joined: 20 May 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 11:31 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Ehhh! We're halfway to the same solution at least- next step we need to convince you that emigration to those countries be banned as well. And then the whole Muslim community
On a side note I've got to say it's really interesting some of these people who had their whole lives which they lived in Britain to join the British army- nowhere to be seen- as soon as conflict in Middle East they're flocking in droves to fight over there, Muslim doctors going for free to help the wounded and injured.
Just my opinion but makes me very doubtful of your hopes that they'll ever integrate-
They say stuff needs to be done but when the government tries something like Prevent they start kicking and screaming- they'll keep kicking and screaming whatever we try I'm sure.
Only one absolute way we don't have to care about their k and s. |
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 11:59 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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ScaredyCat wrote: |
"A mural in Tripoli paying tribute to fighters from Manchester who joined the 17 February Martyrs' Brigade during Libya's revolution against Gaddafi" |
They sound like a nice bunch of chaps. I'll have to invite them round to my next BBQ. No pork of course. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:14 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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ScaredyCat wrote: |
"A mural in Tripoli paying tribute to fighters from Manchester who joined the 17 February Martyrs' Brigade during Libya's revolution against Gaddafi" |
Shit artists, that's shit graffiti, not even up to the standards of the mongiest council estate graffiti merchant. At least the Irish could paint decent murals. Obviously something else the Christians do better than Muslims. God is obviously on our side. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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lihp |
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lihp World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:39 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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lihp wrote: | Lord Percy wrote: |
But the current situation isn't Islam v Christianity, it's Islam v the West.
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Except it isn't.
IS are killing other muslims who don't tow their extremist view, regardless of what type of Islam, in Islamic countries too. |
Oh really, so who were they targeting in Manchester? Other Muslims who didn't tow their extremist views? You';re getting their two battles mixed up. One is purely ideological and the other local goat shagger politics.
Their main aim is to convert or destroy those who wont follow their sky fairy. We're more of a target than those who do, we just happen to be further away from the bulk of the twats. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Falco |
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Falco Traffic Copper
Joined: 27 Nov 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 14:10 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: | [Tefsplanation follows]
It's not trivial to tie together disparate pieces of information into a whole pictures. The first issue is: who are they talking about?
Reports from different people in different places at different times with just a name to go by aren't obviously attributable to the same individual - particularly one from a culture where the names people go by can change more often than the weather.
However, it is possible. Some very clever people work on resolving information into things. They certainly resolved it quickly enough after he went kersplode, to the point where it's been leaked to the media.
The problem, I believe, is that once you give intelligence agencies tools that create pretty network diagrams, they like looking at them more than disrupting them.
It's all gather and analyse and find connections and build bigger and bigger networks, and sort entities into core and edge actors. Digital thumb-tacks and string, OCD heaven.
When it comes to actually kicking in doors, not so keen. It's hot or wet or cold out there, and some of those beastly rotters don't just give up and surrender, the cads.
That's just not good enough when even the most peripheral actor can take centre stage at any moment. Decapitation strategies work against hierarchical organisations, but Salafi jihadism is a writhing mass of tentacles.
[/Tefsplanation] |
That is all true, but its tangential what I am getting at.
Why, after every attack, do we hear that they were already on the watch list (to a greater or lesser extent)? Because the security services are suffering from a chronic case of information overload.
They are spending so much time, energy and money trying to watch everybody who frequents r/Iamatotes4ReelSnackbar, that they are drowning in irrelevant details.
I would posit that the way to solve this problem is not to hire half the population to spy on the other half, but to get over this obsession with collecting all the data on everyone and do their actual job (as you detailed above) in a more focussed/sensible way.
Of course I am just playing wish fulfilment at this point, the shrieking for Big Brother to come and keep us all safe has already begun.
Rogerborg wrote: |
Beyond reasonable doubt is the standard for conviction in a court. It's a piss poor metric for action when Salafi jihadists are deliberately targeting children. |
That is all down to the the services reluctance to act. They can already hold you for 96 hours without charge, if they can't get the information together in that time-frame to bring charges (which they must have since they arrested you), what are they playing at? ____________________ I tell you what, mathematically, I'm having it |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Valerian95 |
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Valerian95 Banned
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Posted: 16:18 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Was it religiously motivated?
Even if it was (it wasn't) where could he tell you in the good book he was referring to in his actions?
Our good friends 2500 miles away are happy to tell you exactly what sentences in their books!
Last edited by Valerian95 on 16:42 - 27 May 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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M.C |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:41 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: |
Except how do you know the Manchester attack was also religiously motivated too?
Other than he's a Muslim = |
No, you're right. They're always Muslims out of shear co-incidence, it has absolutely #NTDWI...
What are the odds of that eh? Almost every terrorist attack happen to be a radical follower of a minority religion.
If it wasn't for your overwhelming wisdom, I'd have almost drawn a conclusion that these attacks are carried out by Muslims, targeting non Muslims, in the name of and for revenge for Allah. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:12 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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mpd72 wrote: | What are the odds of that eh? Almost every terrorist attack happen to be a radical follower of a minority religion. |
Lets use some stats:
15 non Muslim attacks
18 Muslims (3 were done by the same person)
3 Indeterminate.
February 18, 2010 Andrew Joseph Stack
March 4, 2010 John Patrick Bedell
May 1 2010 Faisal Shahzad
May 20, 2010 Jerry and Joseph Kane
September 1, 2010 James J. Lee,
October 2010 Farooque Ahmed
October 29, 2010 Illinois Chicago, Illinois Cargo
October 17, 2010 - November 2, 2010 Yonathan Melaku 50-50
November 25, 2010 Mohamed Osman Mohamud
May 25, 2011 Mohanad Shareef Hammadi and Waad Ramadan Alwan
August 5, 2012 Wade Michael Page,
February 3–12, 2013 Christopher Dorner
April 15, 2013 Tamerlan Tsarnaev,
April 16, 2013 Bioterrorism Washington, D.C. April 2013 ricin letters: Two letters, s
November 1, 2013 2013P aul Anthony Ciancia
December 13, 2013 Terry Lee Loewen,
April 13, 2014 Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr., a neo-Nazi neo-Pagan,
April 27, 2014 Shootings Ali Muhammad Brown
June 1, 2014 Shootings Ali Muhammad Brown
June 8, 2014 Shooting Nevada Las Vegas, Nevada Jerad and Amanda Miller,
June 25, 2014 Shootings Ali Muhammad Brown,
September 12, 2014 Eric Frein
September 24, 2014 Alton Alexander Nolen
October 23, 2014 Zale Thompson
December 2014 The Guardians of Peace"
May 3, 2015 Elton Simpson, Nadir Hamid Soofi, and Abdul Malik Abdul Kareem
June 2, 2015 Usaama Rahim and David Wright
June 17, 2015 Dylann Roof
July 16, 2015 Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez
November 4, 2015 Stabbing Faisal Mohammad
November 27, 2015 Robert Dear
December 2, 2015 Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik
January 7, 2016 Edward Archer
February 11, 2016 Mohamed Barry :
June 12, 2016 Omar Mateen,
August 20, 2016 Stabbings Dahir A. Adan
September 17–19, 2016 Bombings Ahmad Khan Rahimi
November 28, 2016 Abdul Razak Ali Artan
March 20, 2017 ames Harris Jackson
Except numerous others are left out:
July 23, 2015 Lafayette, Louisiana: John Russell House white supremacist shoots up a cinema
Date: Nov. 24, 2015Minnesota Allen Scarsell
Nov. 28, 2014 Austin, Texas Larry Steve McQuilliams,
April 13, 2014 Kansas City, Missouri Frazier Glenn Cross
This changes the stats a little
18 non Muslim attacks
18 Muslims attacking others (3 were done by the same person)
4 Indeterminate.
UK:
2013, 29 April to 12 July: Pavlo Lapshyn attacks.
2013, 22 May: Adebowale ordered to serve at least 45 years.[35]
2015, Muhaydin Mire
2016, 16 June. Thomas Mair,
2017, 22 March: 2017 - Khalid Masood,
2017, 22 May: 2017
4 out of 6 conclusive right?
Except numerous instances aren't counted:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-38962931 Neo Nazi who makes a bomb given counselling
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351 Damon Smith
There is the other guy who had an armoury and wanted to shoot up the school, but he wasn't considered a terrorist.
OK OK so you'll try the angle 13% of the population provide 2 out of 3 terrorist suspects.
Except see the above clear examples of terrorism.
Terrorism being defined as violence with a political motive are not declared terrorism at all. So it's not half as clear cut or close to the definition of ALL you're using. ____________________ Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 17:20 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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I have to ask:
Why do people give the slightest fuck about terrorism? All this talk of allocating resource to stop Muslim radicalisation, massive inconveneience to people on a daily basis, discussion of impractical and faintly ridiculous policies to stop muslims entering the UK and for what? A grand total of 90 deaths between 2000 and 2015, plus maybe another 30 since then?
Take this latest attack for instance. Yes, 30 odd people or whatever died, and that's terrible, but is it even newsworthy? In the same day, 450 died from Cancer, 1 died from MRSA, and 5 died on the road (all estimates based onannual incidences - 2014 or 2015 data). People die and that's terrible, but it happens.
Resource should be allocated on probability of meaningful results and potential size of the prize (in this case lives saved), and on both counts allocating £12Bn of funding to 'solve' terrorism is just stupid. Allocate the funding to curing cancer or improving road safety. You've a better chance of making headway there than stopping terrorism.
Anyway, looping back to terrorism, it's a valid question; Why do we see these attacks?
My suggestion is that we have so many terrorist attacks because they work. This latest attack has cost the organsation behind the attack literally nothing - a couple of grand for materials, possibly a few flights, food and incentives to recruit this guy and that's about it.
But it's got them a huge amount of publicity, and that's their goal.
The attack has had precisely zero influence on this country's ability to function, no target of tactical or military value was eliminated and no crucial infrastructure was harmed. They didn't even try to off the celebrity from the Great Satan.
And yet, irrational in terms of assessing risk and probability though it may be, people are geuinely concerned about terrorism.
This has to trigger a government response, which in turns raises the profile of the attack even further, makes the government look weak and ineffective when another atack inevitably happens and makes people even more nervous.
Of course, the constant 24hr news updates don't help. The attack was the main headline on every news network on the day, and for most of the week following, and still is. How many words and pictures have been strewn around social media relating to the attack?
So, what do we do about it? Well, personally, I'm taking a pragmatic view on this. I take the view that dying is an occupational hazard of life and that I'm not going to worry overmuch. Perhaps we, and our government overlords should do the same and allocate resource based on logic and material benefit, not mass hysteria over what is, at the end of the day, pretty far down the list of dangers to UK citizens... ____________________ CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
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Itchy |
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M.C |
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ScaredyCat |
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ScaredyCat World Chat Champion
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:22 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: | mpd72 wrote: | What are the odds of that eh? Almost every terrorist attack happen to be a radical follower of a minority religion. |
Lets use some stats:
15 non Muslim attacks
18 Muslims (3 were done by the same person)
3 Indeterminate.
February 18, 2010 Andrew Joseph Stack
March 4, 2010 John Patrick Bedell
May 1 2010 Faisal Shahzad
May 20, 2010 Jerry and Joseph Kane
September 1, 2010 James J. Lee,
October 2010 Farooque Ahmed
October 29, 2010 Illinois Chicago, Illinois Cargo
October 17, 2010 - November 2, 2010 Yonathan Melaku 50-50
November 25, 2010 Mohamed Osman Mohamud
May 25, 2011 Mohanad Shareef Hammadi and Waad Ramadan Alwan
August 5, 2012 Wade Michael Page,
February 3–12, 2013 Christopher Dorner
April 15, 2013 Tamerlan Tsarnaev,
April 16, 2013 Bioterrorism Washington, D.C. April 2013 ricin letters: Two letters, s
November 1, 2013 2013P aul Anthony Ciancia
December 13, 2013 Terry Lee Loewen,
April 13, 2014 Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr., a neo-Nazi neo-Pagan,
April 27, 2014 Shootings Ali Muhammad Brown
June 1, 2014 Shootings Ali Muhammad Brown
June 8, 2014 Shooting Nevada Las Vegas, Nevada Jerad and Amanda Miller,
June 25, 2014 Shootings Ali Muhammad Brown,
September 12, 2014 Eric Frein
September 24, 2014 Alton Alexander Nolen
October 23, 2014 Zale Thompson
December 2014 The Guardians of Peace"
May 3, 2015 Elton Simpson, Nadir Hamid Soofi, and Abdul Malik Abdul Kareem
June 2, 2015 Usaama Rahim and David Wright
June 17, 2015 Dylann Roof
July 16, 2015 Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez
November 4, 2015 Stabbing Faisal Mohammad
November 27, 2015 Robert Dear
December 2, 2015 Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik
January 7, 2016 Edward Archer
February 11, 2016 Mohamed Barry :
June 12, 2016 Omar Mateen,
August 20, 2016 Stabbings Dahir A. Adan
September 17–19, 2016 Bombings Ahmad Khan Rahimi
November 28, 2016 Abdul Razak Ali Artan
March 20, 2017 ames Harris Jackson
Except numerous others are left out:
July 23, 2015 Lafayette, Louisiana: John Russell House white supremacist shoots up a cinema
Date: Nov. 24, 2015Minnesota Allen Scarsell
Nov. 28, 2014 Austin, Texas Larry Steve McQuilliams,
April 13, 2014 Kansas City, Missouri Frazier Glenn Cross
This changes the stats a little
18 non Muslim attacks
18 Muslims attacking others (3 were done by the same person)
4 Indeterminate.
UK:
2013, 29 April to 12 July: Pavlo Lapshyn attacks.
2013, 22 May: Adebowale ordered to serve at least 45 years.[35]
2015, Muhaydin Mire
2016, 16 June. Thomas Mair,
2017, 22 March: 2017 - Khalid Masood,
2017, 22 May: 2017
4 out of 6 conclusive right?
Except numerous instances aren't counted:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-38962931 Neo Nazi who makes a bomb given counselling
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351 Damon Smith
There is the other guy who had an armoury and wanted to shoot up the school, but he wasn't considered a terrorist.
OK OK so you'll try the angle 13% of the population provide 2 out of 3 terrorist suspects.
Except see the above clear examples of terrorism.
Terrorism being defined as violence with a political motive are not declared terrorism at all. So it's not half as clear cut or close to the definition of ALL you're using. |
Do me a favour. In Europe the vast majority are committed by Muslims.
Where on earth did you dig out that pile of shite? ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:26 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: | asta1 wrote: | I have to ask:
Why do people give the slightest fuck about terrorism?
Take this latest attack for instance. Yes, 30 odd people or whatever died, and that's terrible, but is it even newsworthy? |
You shouldn't as Hetz said it numerous posts ago.
It's just another method to divide and conquer you.
Hell stairs kill 1000 a year. So stairs are a much more effective method of killing lots of people.
Food poisoning kills 600 a year.
Motorbikes are more dangerous than terrorists.
Judging by the calls for a disproportionate response. Stairs, food and motorbikes being 10-100 times deadlier should be rounded up and deported. |
There's some right shite which comes out of your sound hole, but that's up there with the best of it.
The growing threat of Radical Muslims slaughtering innocent people is fine, because natural accidents are more prolific.
You know what, I hope someone you know does in an attack, so you can come on here and defend the goat fuckers.
More people die of RTA's in a year, but if it was the same minority make of car every time, we'd stop importing it. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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ScaredyCat |
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ScaredyCat World Chat Champion
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
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Posted: 19:02 - 27 May 2017 Post subject: |
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mpd72 wrote: |
There's some right shite which comes out of your sound hole, but that's up there with the best of it.
The growing threat of Radical Muslims slaughtering innocent people is fine, because natural accidents are more prolific.
You know what, I hope someone you know does in an attack, so you can come on here and defend the goat fuckers.
More people die of RTA's in a year, but if it was the same minority make of car every time, we'd stop importing it. |
Not sure if that was in response to me or Itchy, but just to clarify. I'm not in any way condoning or attempting to justify terrorism. It's clearly a despicable and cowardly act.
What I am however saying is that the reletive threat of terrorism to the UK citizen should be considered in the context of allocating funds to counter it.
The government should allocate tax money in the most effective way to protect the citizens of this country based on the available stats. All I'm saying is that there are issues that are demonstrably more serious- they kill more people per annum, and that in light of that, the current focus on terrorism as The Big Threat is slightly illogical.
As a counter to your point, why is it more tragic that 30 people are killed in an act of terrorism than 30 people being killed on the road or in a hospital bed?
As for the RTA point, there are categories of drivers, minorities if you will, who are measuably more at risk - the inexperienced, motorcyclists etc, and many do say these people should be banned from the road or otherwise restricted - the 6 point 2 year probation for recently passed drivers and the A2 licence category spring to mind... ____________________ CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
A2 Licence Passed: 12/02/16
Current Bike: Yamaha MT-07 bought 02/07/16 |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 333 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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