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Rewinding stator by hand

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Mentacycle
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 09 May 2017
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Rewinding stator by hand Reply with quote

Hello folks, hope everyone is getting to enjoy the great weather today...

After a 2 week exhaustive search I cannot find a stator to fit my bike (yup the CPI Sprint 125), so Im considering rewinding my stator myself because only 2 of the 3 phases are producing current and testing to ground shows a dead short.

Im following this instructable https://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuild-your-bike-s-expensive-stator/

With the crude tools I have to hand (no verniers,calipers,etc - yet) Im unable to accurately measure the wire on the windings so would i be safe using 0.95 mm wire as in the instructable?
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have an engine code? If you're extracting it anyway, a part number? Or a picture of the engine and/or stator?

I ask because it'll almost certainly be one of the Honda CG or CB or Suzuki GN/GS copy engines and you should be able to get a stator to fit.

Given that cmpo want £25.41 for (e.g.) a CG-copy stator I wouldn't give up the search just yet, unless your time is cheaper than that.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've rewound a few and didn't sweat the exact wire gauge.
Near enough is good enough
I was in a hurry and had the materials to hand, but as Roger says the chances are its a common cheap item you'll get from Ebay or places like
CMPO. quite easily.
There are basically two types
generator only and generator with CDI source coil
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neptune8
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the past I have rewound all sorts of devices including car alternators , relays and D.C. and A.C. electric motors. Your best answer is to buy the wire from your local electric motor rewind shop. Take a sample of the old wire with you. They will burn off the varnish, and measure the wires diameter with a micrometer. Take careful notes of how the old winding was applied and connected, e,g, number of turns per coil[ may differ from one coil to another] whether each coil was wound clockwise or anti clockwise as viewed from the outer end of each polepiece. Also the connections between coils and how the output leads are connected. Remove all the old coils and weigh the wire, as wire is sold by the kilogram. Carefully preserve all the insulation pieces. After the coils are rewound, the job needs dipping in winding varnish, and baking. The rewind shop may do that for you for a small fee[a drink]. A reasonable substitute is to paint the job with polyurethane varnish using a paint brush.[Do not Bake!] Hope this helps.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try these people

https://www.westcountrywindings.co.uk/

They were at the London Docklands bike show earlier this year and their examples of their handywork was spot on Thumbs Up Wink
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 14:12 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


I had them rewind and convert my TZR250 race stator to total loss.



Why didn't you hacksaw the charging coils off like most of the idiots in YPM seem to do?
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Mentacycle
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 28 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Do you have an engine code? If you're extracting it anyway, a part number? Or a picture of the engine and/or stator?

I ask because it'll almost certainly be one of the Honda CG or CB or Suzuki GN/GS copy engines and you should be able to get a stator to fit.

Given that cmpo want £25.41 for (e.g.) a CG-copy stator I wouldn't give up the search just yet, unless your time is cheaper than that.


After a while of cleaning the engine didnt reveal a engine number, im having to assume it lives under the starter motor, and that 12 volt CG parts will fit.

CDi unit kit was cheap enough at £11, the stator is now rewound with fresh coils and epoxy Smile
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Mentacycle
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PostPosted: 00:51 - 28 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
I've rewound a few and didn't sweat the exact wire gauge.
Near enough is good enough
I was in a hurry and had the materials to hand, but as Roger says the chances are its a common cheap item you'll get from Ebay or places like
CMPO. quite easily.
There are basically two types
generator only and generator with CDI source coil


Thanks, your post was the boost i needed to get on with it, just waiting for the epoxy to set, then final testing before refitting Smile
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Mentacycle
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 28 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

neptune8 wrote:
In the past I have rewound all sorts of devices including car alternators , relays and D.C. and A.C. electric motors. Your best answer is to buy the wire from your local electric motor rewind shop. Take a sample of the old wire with you. They will burn off the varnish, and measure the wires diameter with a micrometer. Take careful notes of how the old winding was applied and connected, e,g, number of turns per coil[ may differ from one coil to another] whether each coil was wound clockwise or anti clockwise as viewed from the outer end of each polepiece. Also the connections between coils and how the output leads are connected. Remove all the old coils and weigh the wire, as wire is sold by the kilogram. Carefully preserve all the insulation pieces. After the coils are rewound, the job needs dipping in winding varnish, and baking. The rewind shop may do that for you for a small fee[a drink]. A reasonable substitute is to paint the job with polyurethane varnish using a paint brush.[Do not Bake!] Hope this helps.


That was close to what i did, except without burning the wire - laid back on the closest wire size in the same pattern are the original.
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Mentacycle
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 28 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
mpd72 wrote:


I had them rewind and convert my TZR250 race stator to total loss.



Why didn't you hacksaw the charging coils off like most of the idiots in YPM seem to do?


Thats... thats just plain savage Doh!
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:56 - 28 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mentacycle wrote:

...just waiting for the epoxy to set, then final testing before refitting Smile


What kind of epoxy did you use?
I worked with a fair amount of epoxy on boats, especially removing it and replacing with the proper adhesive for the job after it had turned to a useless gunge when subjected to prolonged heat!! Don't get me wrong, it's a great material but not the 'be all and end all' that many manufacturers claim it to be (especially crap for applications with wood exposed to the elements!!)
An epoxy designed for high heat should do your job well but most off-the-shelf pox's will require additives of one sort or another to last well in a high heat environment.
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Mentacycle
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 28 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:

What kind of epoxy did you use?


I had some of this around : https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/adhesives-and-sealants/two-part-adhesives/araldite-2014-epoxy-paste-50ml-cartridge/p/ARA7000169Q
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


That's a bit harsh. There are some pretty knowledgeable people in the YPM, with good spannering and engineering skills.


The scrap crank on my bench where some bellend has welded the outer webs suggests otherwise.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


If your talking about the flat part of the web being built up with weld to fill the circle, those were made illegal in the class years ago.
I take it you understand why people used to do this? It tended to be certain tuners who did this back in the day, not the riders.



Nope. I'm talking about some muppet welding the pins into the webs to stop the crank spreading. All well and good apart from the fact it renders it unrebuildable and then I have an irate customer who has to go off and source a load of crank bits off JAUCE so we can sort him a couple of good spare cranks. If the crank is spreading then the correct course of action is to replace the web / pin in question, as they only spread if one of the mating surfaces is worn. People who weld cranks should be put on the sex offenders register.
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331X2
Crazy Courier



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing is, welding the webs to the big end pins and centre shaft is seen as the only proper way to build a crank in high performance skis...

Of all the people telling me it's absolutely necessary, no-one ever seems to have had first hand experience of a crank shifting out of phase and the one I rebuilt (without welding) has been running for over two years now without issue.
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