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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Booster Plug Reply with quote
Anyone have any experience of these ; https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/frontpage.html

This guy seems to like it but has anyone else tried it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdkSSmpyanA
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not tried or even heard of it before.

However, if it does really work like the YouTube guy says it does, I'd be very tempted to get one for the er6f. The chopiness of the throttle when cornering or more so, going around roundabouts in 2nd gear can be quite unnerving, especially in wet conditions.

I'd like to see/hear more reviews from folks who've fitted one before splashing out on one myself though.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Foe the price you could get a used power commander on eBay.

I would suspect this is just like the 10000 other little plug in boxes that do basically fuck all.

like these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NITRO-X-FUEL-COMMANDER-POWER-CHIP-GSXR-GSX-R-750-K6-K7-K8-K9-K10-K11-/371724439728?hash=item568c80d0b0:g:-MQAAOSwYGFUuDHN

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-GSXR-GSX-R-750-2007-Power-Jet-Fuel-Commander-Controller-/141463222098?hash=item20efdd7752:g:HKIAAOSwGWNUXHNx
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
It seems to get the thumbs up on the Versys forum...

https://www.versys.co.uk/index.php?topic=21413.0
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
wr6133 wrote:
I would suspect this is just like the 10000 other little plug in boxes that do basically fuck all.

How many have you tried?

BoostaPlug wrote:
The BoosterPlug development project actually started because Jens wanted a proper solution for his own BMW F800S.

Thinking

Leave it, Rog. Leeeeave iiiiit
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
wr6133 wrote:
I would suspect this is just like the 10000 other little plug in boxes that do basically fuck all.

That was my first thought but the YT guy seemed positive about it and his explanation makes sense, so I thought it worth asking about.
I don't think the YT guy has any other reason to say it's good...
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
BoostaPlug wrote:
The BoosterPlug development project actually started because Jens wanted a proper solution for his own BMW F800S.

Thinking Leave it, Rog. Leeeeave iiiiit

Does your Bavarian Tractor jerk you around then?
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
How many have you tried?


If you have to buy snake oil to decide on its value then you'll be a very poor man.

If the OP's one is like the ones I linked then it's just the variable resistor in a box con that's been around for years but with a much fatter price tag than some others.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
wr6133 wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
How many have you tried?
If you have to buy snake oil to decide on its value then you'll be a very poor man.

If the OP's one is like the ones I linked then it's just the variable resistor in a box con that's been around for years but with a much fatter price tag than some others.


Someone either has to buy the snake oil or have enough tech info to decide if it's snake oil or not in the first place.
The way it works, I can't see how it would be the same as the ones you listed, but I asked to see if someone knows for certain.

I'm not really interested in more power, but the smoother low down running sounds interesting.
I've disconnected the power commander which has improved it dramatically but it's still a bit rough below 2.5k
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 26 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
wr6133 wrote:
If you have to buy snake oil to decide on its value then you'll be a very poor man.


And yet, you're not even sure yourself

wr6133 wrote:
If the OP's one is like the ones I linked



wr6133 wrote:

the variable resistor in a box con that's been around for years but with a much fatter price tag than some others.


It measures air temperature, so like any thermistor output will be related to the input. Yes it's a variable resistor, it varies with temperature.

This one is supposed to take the ambient temperature and report to the sensor receiver that it's 20 degrees lower causing the ECU to trigger a richer mixture, in the same way any FI bike copes with a cold winter morning.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 01:04 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:


This one is supposed to take the ambient temperature and report to the sensor receiver that it's 20 degrees lower causing the ECU to trigger a richer mixture, in the same way any FI bike copes with a cold winter morning.


So it's just going to overfuel, all the time.

Sounds like the fabled 'enabling the fifth injector' on Sierra RS500s - gives some extra power somewhere, but mainly shit fuel consumption.

I'm not really familiar with Power Commanders, but my understanding is that they employ variable and tuneable fuel maps, best set up on a Dyno, to give results across a range of throttle openings/loadings.

All I can see this box of tricks doing, is provide some extra stuff at who knows what area of the rev range, allied to some sort of placebo effect, that makes you think you've suddenly gained an extra x% BHP everywhere.
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........
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 01:24 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's the latest variation on a theme that's been around since the introduction of EFI. At first glance it makes sense as tricking the ECU into enriching the mixture that way is perfectly feasible.

You've only really got to ask yourself whether you believe that all the major manufacturers have messed up the mapping of their engines in exactly the same way. Do you really believe that Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki etc have all programmed their ECUs to run too lean by just the right amount to allow a 'one size fits all' temperature adjustment to improve all those engines?

Are all the guys with carb'd engines running around with the choke on to improve performance?

If it is successful in what it is trying to achieve it's more likely to cause increased wear through bore wash than provide an improvement in performance.

I'd be interested in knowing whether any of the purchasers of this product previously bought magnets to go round their fuel lines. Or mesh bags full of lead discs to drop into their fuel tanks when leaded petrol stopped being widely sold.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:47 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
garybee wrote:
Do you really believe that Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki etc have all programmed their ECUs to run too lean by just the right amount to allow a 'one size fits all' temperature adjustment to improve all those engines?

The ideal stoichiometric ratio is the same for all of them.

They're all tuning to meet the same ecomental emissions standards.

Why would you expect them to be significantly different? That doesn't sound very rational.

Anyway my interest perked up when I noticed that they initially developed it for the 800 Rotax in my Nazi Tractor.

But...
Alpineandy wrote:
Does your Bavarian Tractor jerk you around then?

...not hugely. If I go out of my way to hoik on and chop off the throttle it's a little bit rocking-horse though, and I do love me the taste of some snake oil.

There's probably a few £££ worth of parts in there, so finding a teardown might be interesting. I wonder if there is actually a 2nd temperature sensor in there, or if it's just a dumb resistor.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
The BCF research department should buy one and carry out definitive testing. Once the results are known we can either 'rainpal' them or sing their praises.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:10 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shaft wrote:
So it's just going to overfuel, all the time.

They claim only when changing throttle positions, otherwise it'll revert to fuelling from the oxygen sensor.

Shaft wrote:
All I can see this box of tricks doing, is provide some extra stuff at who knows what area of the rev range

When changing throttle positions.

Shaft wrote:
sort of placebo effect, that makes you think you've suddenly gained an extra x% BHP everywhere.

It doesn't claim to add more power.

If you're going to poo-poo it, at least debunk what they do claim rather than what they don't.


Positive review:

https://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/booster-plug/

... on an 800 Rotax twin.

[A single bead of sweat falls from Roger's brow as he tries not to click on Buy It Now]

Thing is, I've never noticed my 2011 MY Tractor having a particularly snatchy throttle, and it pulls smoothly from very low revs. Maybe I'm just not hamfisted enough.

But... snake oil. So tasty. Want to need. Drooling
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 09:25 - 27 May 2017; edited 1 time in total
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
If it were to sort out snatchy throttle on the KTM then it would be a fully working delivered rainpal.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
If it were to sort out snatchy throttle on the KTM then it would be a fully working delivered rainpal.

https://m.popkey.co/ca8f87/AoYjv_f-maxage-0.gif

I might take the Tractor round the block and see if I can convince myself that it actually needs it. Thing is, my engine is tuned differently from the stock F800 anyway (for girls and that), and I've never noticed it being snatchy. Sad
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Once the results are known we can either 'rainpal' them or sing their praises.


The resistor in a box was rainpal'd on many forums long before rainpal. It's not really any different to riding around on a carb'd bike with the choke partially left on.

They are aimed at lightening the wallets of people who baulk at the price of a power commander. Thing is a power commander works (when set up properly) as it allows the fuel maps to be precisely tuned to the Thottle opening/rpm/gear, these boxes just take a "dumb" approach and richen the mix at whatever mandatory amount the box maker has decided. If you have a bike that runs particularly lean at idle you may see that change but it also may leave it running excessively rich at WOT.
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Thing is, my engine is tuned differently from the stock F800 anyway (for girls and that), and I've never noticed it being snatchy. Sad


Guys want snatch - most girls don't.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

But... snake oil. So tasty. Want to need. Drooling


If you do buy it you could give it confirmation/debunking by having the bike dyno'd before and after.

I'll bet 5 ponds the power curve is fucked after it's added.

Quote:
When changing throttle positions.


You actually have to set up a power commander to know your throttle position. Out the box and plugged straight in I can't see how this box would know the throttle position. Before I believe the sperg about it switching maps when the throttle is opened I'd want to see a dyno sheet.

Quote:
The Booster Plug utilizes and processes readings from the original Air Intake Temperature sensor and its external sensor that provides ambient air temperature data along with its internal resistor data and it is this output that is sent to the Fuel Injection Control Unit.

Simply put, the Booster Plug makes the Fuel Injection Engine Control Unit think that the ambient air temperature is 20 degrees Celsius (plus/minus one degree) lower than it actually is and accordingly the Engine Control unit makes the mixture richer by a specific amount.

This specific amount is six (6) percent), which should result in faster and more stable (smoother) throttle response, improved acceleration and a reduction of low speed response issues typical of lean burn engines including back-firing or pressure build-ups in exhaust systems, particularly aftermarket items.


The article is pointless. It's a regurgitated advert with the author claiming improvements without any actual data to show. To confirm it actually does what he thinks it does you need before and after dyno readings and AF readings. Why is 6% the mandatory figure? 6% extra at idle is going to have a different effect to 6% at WOT.
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ackack
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have one on my bike gsxs-1000.
I've got the 'mk1' model which came out the factory with bad throttle snatch and quite jerky at low speeds high gear.
First thing I did to the bike was adjust the TPS as they were set wrong from the factory and that helped a fair bit especially with the snatch but the bike was still a bit boggy at low speeds and the snatch would show on uneven roads.
I started to hear from other users on a forum that the booster plug worked quite well but I was sceptical mainly because of the name. A few months ago when I started to ride again after the winter the bike just felt a bit lumpy on idle and it was hard to hold a constant throttle so I looked into a re-flash but at the time of asking the only place local to me was a 240 mile round trip which I didn't fancy doing 2 hours of on/off throttle on the way up there.
So I was back to looking at Booster plugs again and thought sod it, if I don't like it I could easily sell it to another owner. Plug arrived, fitted and immediately on idle the small hunting was gone and brought the idle down 250rpm. Went for a long ride using fast roads out and slow road back and I managed to do 4 miles continuous 31mph in 6th gear and the bike was purring and it just felt like a different bike. I haven't noticed any high end gains but it's sorted out everything for me low end and only cost £120.

TL:DR
The best mod I've bought for my bike and it sorts out low revs/throttle snatch problems.
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........
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 10:25 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
garybee wrote:
Do you really believe that Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki etc have all programmed their ECUs to run too lean by just the right amount to allow a 'one size fits all' temperature adjustment to improve all those engines?

The ideal stoichiometric ratio is the same for all of them.

They're all tuning to meet the same ecomental emissions standards.

Why would you expect them to be significantly different? That doesn't sound very rational.



Significantly more rational than getting defensive about a product that is so clearly a waste of money. That's the same mindset that generates reviews like the one linked to in the OP. It's an ego thing though. Nobody likes to admit to themselves that they have been duped. We all do it to some extent.

On the subject of stoich' and emissions regs...

There are effectively two modes in which the vast majority of all modern engines run:-

1) Closed loop - This is when the ECU is looking at the pre-cat lambda probe (oxygen sensor) and adjusting its fuel to achieve stoich'. You may be surprised (or not, I don't pretend to know you background) to hear that this can be an extremely small percentage of an engine's use. It occurs at lower throttle openings and steady state running after the engine is up to a pre-determined operating temperature.

2) Open loop - This is when the ECU uses stored 'look-up tables' (commonly referred to as its map) to decide how much fuel is needed for the current conditions. This occurs at every instance where closed loop doesn't.

This 'device' (even referring to it as a device makes me cringe a bit) is affecting open loop running only, as in closed loop the ECU is looking at the O2 probe and not the look-up tables. The emissions testing carried out on vehicles for sale at the moment is all about testing how it performs at it's most efficient (ie. in closed loop mode). The manufacturers therefore have no reason to adjust the open loop aspect of the fuelling (where this device is capable of affecting running) to the "ecomental emissions standards".

So, keeping that in mind ask yourself again whether or not a widescale enrichment of the fuelling of the map that the manufacturers went to a great deal of time and expense to perfect is a good idea?
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ackack
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
garybee wrote:
some tech stuff


Why/how has it sorted out the throttle response and smoothness of low revs high gear running on my bike?
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........
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 11:10 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ackack wrote:
garybee wrote:
some tech stuff


Why/how has it sorted out the throttle response and smoothness of low revs high gear running on my bike?


Hi, the answer to your question really is in what I have already written. I am happy to chat about this stuff but I'm really not interested in getting into an internet argument. My suggestion (and I am well aware that you have no reason to believe that I have any more knowledge of the subject than anyone else on the internet) would be for you to remove it from your bike though.
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BumpingUglys
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 27 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
The throttle response on my first Monster (stock) was piss poor under 4k rpm, meaning you had to clutch it round town, bogged easily, was jerky as hell and generally a pain in the arse. So I bought a Fat Duc O2 Manipulator, which I guess is the equivalent thing to the Boosterplug. The throttle response was much improved and wasn't nearly as jerky as before, making a real difference to town riding.


However, my current Monster has the performance (i.e. remapped) ECU fitted and is infinitely smoother and more responsive than either the stock or modded bike. So make of that what you will. The only real positive to stock was better fuel economy, but meh.
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