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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
So you can vote UKIP, if you're very lucky you might have a choice of one of the shrinking number of Brexiteer Tories or Labourites, or you can select from any of the Tweedle Dums and Tweedle Dees in a rainbow of rosettes - it won't matter who you pick.


Unless you live in one of the 150 'marginals' this is always the case in a FPTP system, surely!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
the cost of security etc.

Prince Harry's protection detail encounter an uppity prole. Did he think he was an Important Person, or something?

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/11/1410469136276_Image_galleryImage_Police_out_rider_which_wa.JPG

It really does wind me up, the speed their private army blasts about.


Suntan Sid wrote:
Unless you live in one of the 150 'marginals' this is always the case in a FPTP system, surely!

Indeed, which is why I try not to take it too seriously.

https://www.voterpower.org.uk/

My voter power = 0.067, ultra safe constituency. Rolling Eyes
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
0.074 Crying or Very sad
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
https://www.voterpower.org.uk/


Doesn't even know about my constituency or postcode. I can take a guess at "shit all". Full of famers picking up subsidies - bound to vote con. and historically always have and I surmise will continue to do so.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
0.074 Crying or Very sad

0.025 Another reason not to bother voting.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
0.074 Crying or Very sad

0.025 Another reason not to bother voting.

https://www.votenone.org.uk/
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

https://www.votenone.org.uk/


For a while now I've advocated for a compulsory vote, but with a 'None of the Above' option. That would put the cat among the pigeons.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
https://www.votenone.org.uk/


NOTA is a great idea, but I don't think it will ever get anywhere by protest voting. Protest votes will simply be lumped in with the twats who tick 2 boxes.
The campaign seem to think that a large enough number of spoiled ballots will get some recognition. I think they will just be ignored. Look at the disgraceful police commissioner elections in 2012, less than 15% turn out and it was still claimed to be legitimate. I don't believe there is a level of turn out low enough or a level of spoiled ballots high enough to force the powers-that-be to accept there might be some level of discontent.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Falco wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
https://www.votenone.org.uk/


NOTA is a great idea, but I don't think it will ever get anywhere by protest voting. Protest votes will simply be lumped in with the twats who tick 2 boxes.
The campaign seem to think that a large enough number of spoiled ballots will get some recognition. I think they will just be ignored. Look at the disgraceful police commissioner elections in 2012, less than 15% turn out and it was still claimed to be legitimate. I don't believe there is a level of turn out low enough or a level of spoiled ballots high enough to force the powers-that-be to accept there might be some level of discontent.


The irony is, the current gov won't accept union action as legitimate unless there's a clear majority (51%+). But have no qualms with their puppets getting in on a 1 in 5 vote basis.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
M.C wrote:

0.025 Another reason not to bother voting.

https://www.votenone.org.uk/

Well I don't want the Tories so I'm going to put a big X in their box.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Falco wrote:
NOTA is a great idea, but I don't think it will ever get anywhere by protest voting.

Likely not. Given the limited options available to us though, I prefer it to apathy or voting for the 2nd most awful candidate.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
You need a NOTA candidate in each seat that would immediately resign on being elected.

Of course there's a problem with that. Finding people with the integrity to resign and not just take power and go mental.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbotitus seems to be catching: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40090520
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

Tens or hundreds of millions, depending on if you only consider what they receive or include the cost of security etc. It's more the principal of why people who are filthy rich receive any money... and why we still have a monarchy.


They make a net contribution to the economy through tourism etc. Also many of the costs would have to be paid, monarch or no monarch. Unless you also propose to bulldoze Buckingham palace and put up a block of council flats/flog it to China?

We don't have a monarch, even Jeremy concedes that. She is a figurehead. The key attribute of a Monarch is power, and she ain't got none!
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
https://www.voterpower.org.uk/


Doesn't even know about my constituency or postcode. I can take a guess at "shit all". Full of famers picking up subsidies - bound to vote con. and historically always have and I surmise will continue to do so.


Same in my constituency, doesn't recognise postcode, however if you go to the site map you can find your constituency.

A word of warning though, my constituency has had the same party in power for over 20 years, yet according to the site I have greater than average voter power. The site accredits this to having less than the average number of voters, not quite sure how that works.
According to the site, I live in a marginal constituency, which is clearly bollox!
To oust the encumbent in my constituency, would require all the voters who didn't vote for him last time to vote for one other candidate, which will never happen.
I would suggest that the 'voterpower' figures, given, should be taken with a pinch of salt!
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 30 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
M.C wrote:

Tens or hundreds of millions, depending on if you only consider what they receive or include the cost of security etc. It's more the principal of why people who are filthy rich receive any money... and why we still have a monarchy.


They make a net contribution to the economy through tourism etc. Also many of the costs would have to be paid, monarch or no monarch. Unless you also propose to bulldoze Buckingham palace and put up a block of council flats/flog it to China?

We don't have a monarch, even Jeremy concedes that. She is a figurehead. The key attribute of a Monarch is power, and she ain't got none!

She does, and it doesn't change the public money they receive. It's an outdated institution that should have been done away with years ago.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
You need a NOTA candidate in each seat that would immediately resign on being elected.

Of course there's a problem with that. Finding people with the integrity to resign and not just take power and go mental.


And you would need someone to financially back you also.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
YouGov sells The Times a prediction of a hung parliament, the press-o-sphere soils the bed.

Given the choice between a Sharia regime and no regime, I'll take the latter every time. Come on, Comrade Corbyn, you can (barely fail to) do it. Dance!
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:12 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

She does, and it doesn't change the public money they receive. It's an outdated institution that should have been done away with years ago.


She doesn't receive public money. She has income from the crown estates which historically she owns but she gives to the state. In exchange she receives a much smaller sum for day to day expenses. None of this is from general taxation, she is a contributor to the general taxation pot.

The Crown Estate has delivered a record £304.1m to the Treasury after the value of its portfolio rose 9.7% to £12bn.
This year the Queen received a grant of nearly £43m, currently calculated as 15% of the Crown Estate's profits.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36643314

ScaredyCat wrote:
You need a NOTA candidate in each seat that would immediately resign on being elected.

Of course there's a problem with that. Finding people with the integrity to resign and not just take power and go mental.


They would opt to take the £70k salary, to "fight from the inside".
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
M.C wrote:

She does, and it doesn't change the public money they receive. It's an outdated institution that should have been done away with years ago.


She doesn't receive public money. She has income from the crown estates which historically she owns but she gives to the state. In exchange she receives a much smaller sum for day to day expenses. None of this is from general taxation, she is a contributor to the general taxation pot.

The Crown Estate has delivered a record £304.1m to the Treasury after the value of its portfolio rose 9.7% to £12bn.
This year the Queen received a grant of nearly £43m, currently calculated as 15% of the Crown Estate's profits.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36643314

They do receive public money, you can try to spin it how you like but it doesn't change the fact that money could be going somewhere else.
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

They do receive public money, you can try to spin it how you like but it doesn't change the fact that money could be going somewhere else.


However you Phrase it the royal family is a net contributor in a large way to the UK economy, Directly from the crown estate and indirectly from tourism, merch etc.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

They do receive public money, you can try to spin it how you like but it doesn't change the fact that money could be going somewhere else.


They don't. I've just proven with facts that they don't. You've just offered personal assurances which isn't very credible. The spin is in your court, not mine, I'm completely disinterested in Monarchy so I'm perfectly objective.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
I'm completely disinterested in Monarchy so I'm perfectly objective.

Yet you're defending them, when most people look the rules that don't apply to them (income/capital gains/inheritance tax, sealed wills etc.) and think hang on this is a bit odd. There are also people who call BS on your figure: https://www.republic.org.uk/what-we-do/news-and-updates/monarchy-costs-taxpayer-%C2%A3334m-year-8-times-official-figure-new-report

But yeah lets all celebrate our outdated institution Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spectator: Worst. Tory. Campaign. Ever.

"Theresa May has the warmth, wit and oratorical ability of a fridge-freezer. Jeremy Corbyn is doing far better."

Finding it hard to disagree with the points and predictions. Come onnnnn, hung parliament. Praying
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 31 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm struggling with this one. Usually supported the tories but when they brought out this 'Alzheimer's Tax' idea it appalled me.
So if you needed social care at the end of your life you could have £23k in the bank before the state started taking it. Now they're saying "100k woooo oh yeah but we can include your house in that".
Seriously WFT? How many houses are worth less than £77k?

OK they've U turned on it, but the fact they even said it annoyed me.

tl;dr: You pay into a system all your life, then if you're ill at the end the state takes about 90% of your assets
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