Now, I need to decide on a bike..

[Mattxd]

I've done TONS of research as to what bike I should buy and the more research I did the more I wasn't sure on which bike to buy. I want a bike that isn't more than 8 years old and has no more than 25k mileage. That's my used bike expectations.

I need a bike that's cheap to run and insure and so far I have these contenders:
Yamaha yzf125
Sinnis apache
Honda cbr125
Ktm duke125

All of these have an insurance rate of at least £400 a month, giving me £1600 annually which is expensive as fuck. Any tips on lowering that shit down?

I'm getting paid quite low ATM around £200 a month however would have been £400 a month or more if I was allowed to work more hours.

I just want some other suggestions so I can have a snoop at some prices since every article I've ever read about learner bikes gives me bikes that cost £2500.

I know the ktm duke and Yamaha go for £2500 but they're kinda higher up bikes which I plan to buy once I learn. I just want any old junk I can drive around 2 years for.

[Alpineandy]

[asta1]

So you want a cheap, learner legal bike with low insurance, low miles and less than 10ish years old?

Fine. Why the fuck would you even begin to consider a 125cc "sportsbike" (note air quotes) like the YZF?

Don't be so stupid. Get a cheap well looked after 'commuter' bike like the Yamaha YBR or the Honda CBF. If you're really brave, or really broke, consider the chinese copies of the above.

They are all underpowered and not that cool so why pay over the odds? The cheapest of the cheap chinese copies will do 60ish, whilst the best of the best Japanese sports 125s does maybe 80 wih a trail wind. Are you gonna notice? They're all struggling to keep up with traffic eitherway.

A decentish YBR is maybe £1200, whilst the Chinese copies are maybe £500. Insurance will be much less than the "sportsbikes" as well.

Oh, and did I mention that the sports 125ccs are just the commuters in an expensive frock?

Seems to me that if you're being paid £200/month, you can't afford to run a bike at all, let alone afford to be picky.
____________________
CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
A2 Licence Passed: 12/02/16
Current Bike: Yamaha MT-07 bought 02/07/16

[The Shaggy D.A.]

[MahatmaAndhi]

[Tracer1234]

YBR YBR YBR.
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15

[Teflon-Mike]

Care to start again chap? The bikes on your short list didn't choose themselves by ANY criteria of being economical and cheap or cheap to insure!

How old are you? Are you perchance still at school'tech? Have you actually got cash saved up to buy a bike? What about paying for your CBT? Crash-Helmet? Riding gear? Security devices? Lessons test and licence? Actually have you even GOT your provisional yet?

The bike is actually the last thing o the list you really need; plenty more important stuff ahead of that on the list. Sort all that out and on a budget of £50 a week, which you say is all you can bank on, you will be struggling to run ANYTHING on that and have any change to buy a big-mac wherever you get to!

Paying insurance monthly isn't buyig a monthly policy; you are buyng a years policy ad a credit plan to pay for it. If you aren't 18 years old or over, you wont be able to have one. If you are; then you will be payng something like 30% over the odds for the privilege of using some-one else money, ad on what is probably the most expensive single cost of biking....

Your sums don't add up; £400 per month, doesn't add up to £1600 a year, when we have 12 months in an earth-year... but £4800 does sound like the sort of 'eff-off we really dont want your business, but if you are daft enough to pay us more than we are ever likely to pay out, we'll take your money" quotes. £1600 a year is plausible for an annual Third party only policy for a teen-ager on a bike like that, with a hefty enough voluntary excess, limited miles and no 'including commuting' box checked on the proposal, if you have declared occupation as your part-time job, not 'student'.... on some sort of 10month rather than full year,'bonus accumulator' policy. BUT, you would likely be paying something in the order or £500 a year i credit charges on that, if you take the monthly plan.... IF you want to save money on the insurance THAT is where you are most likely to find most saving... paying up front NOT paying on the neva-neva. Ditto buying the bike; if you want to save pennies dont buy on the neva-neva; pay cash, upfront. Likewise all the gear you need to go with it.

Cut your cloth to suit your means. And on £50 a week; you need to do a LOT of cloth cutting, mate!

I have held my licence a very long time, and have accrued my kit over a life-time; I don't have to budget for a crash-hat or leathers, or a CBT before I start! I budget 'about' £500 a year to run my 750; I bought it a long time ago 'cash', I don't owe any-one a penny for it, or have to pay them for spending their money. Ditto the insurance; I pay that upfront each year, and thanks to being an old duffer, that's barely £120 a year, and actually cheaper than my 125! I don't have to budget for too many 'repairs' as I don't crash very often, unlike most Learners, and I know what maintenance does need doing and when to do t and how to do it; but I KNOW that if I am totally honest with myself, I exceed my notional budget each year by maybe £2-300, if I didn't 'forget' to include the odd £30 for a gallon of oil every now and then; the new visor for my helmet, when it gets too far gone to clean with soapy water; new waterproofs when the old ones start leaking, etc ec etc...

Realistically; for very limited (around 3ooo) leisure miles, I probably spend £20 a week or more on my bike; without punitive yoof insurance; without repairs or constant maintenance due to ragging it, let alone crashing it, or depreciation or credit charges on a fancy fashion statement motorcycle....

IF after getting a CBT, getting togged up, and buying some basic security dices; you had enough, cash i hand to go buy and insure ANY 125 learner-legal motorcycle; and run that for a year, without incurring major unexpected expense like a crash or theft, and can get 3ooo miles out of it, for £30 a week / £15oo a year, so you can bank on having some change from your weekly to cover unexpected, and/or do anything wherever you go on the bike, you would be dong PRETTY well.

You want tips on how to make it even remotely 'do-abe'? Well, stop looking at the bike; and stop looking at over priced aspirational ones.

Sort out the first ups, of getting a provisional; getting it validated with CBT, getting some geat, gettng some security THEN scrape together cash, and go bike hunting.

Older/cheaper the bike, less insurance will tend to be. Avoid anything with Moto-Cross insired stying, they are theft magnets and atract an insurance loading; anything with even slightly 'sporty' stylng; likewise will be a theft magnet, and atract an insurance loading; as well as boy-racer premium. Cheapest to insure will likely als be the cheaper to buy, 'boring' looking commuters, you know things folk say 'looks sensible'... 'cos it is! Will also tend to be the cheaper to maitain, and put fuel in;

Sod the age and the mileage... a YZF-R125 is about dead at 25K miles, thanks to a succession of kiddie go kwik owners illegally thrashing the knackers off them on the motorway, and not checking the oil....... oh.. sorry, that's a different thread.... CBR's wot be far behnd, KTM's dont even need encouragemet from errant kiddie go kwik owners to self destruct, neither do generic chnky bikes with flashy plastic...

CONDITION IS ALL... few 125's get well looked after, if they have cranked up some miles and still work and look looked after, they probably have had a more contientiouse owner dong more of the rght stuff, and stand a better chance of offering good service than anything sportg after-market power pipes or stckers, with half the miles and a slack chain....

If you dont want to pay over the odds; dont buy from a dealer; 125's dont have the mark up on them for them to make much profit; you wont get a bargain on one! Buy prvate, but get clued up and dont be too much of a hurry to buy the first you see... and pay cash!

Bench-mark Learner-Commuter s the Yamaha YBR125 at three, four or five years old with a fresh MOT and between maybe 12ooo & 20ooo miles on the clock. You aught to be able to pick one up for around £1500, which wll likely be a lot newer and n much better shape than a similar priced YZF-R125 or CBR, by a long stretch; and cheaper to insure, and maintain and repair if needs. A-N-D when you come to sell on should still have some useful residual value left in it, so that all in, it will likely have cost less 'all in' than either any of the fancy sports or 'crossa style 125's or even cheaper chinks, where costs tend to be found in the hassle they are to live with, ongoing maintenance and dire resale prices.

BUT, on £50 a week? As said, even something as sensible as that, is lkely to be out of your ball-park, even f you can afford the upfront to get kitted and buy one and it' isnsrance upfront.

On £50 a week, with a 'hope' you might make a bit more if you can get more hours; and nothing i the bank to get you off the stops; answer is to get to work; hassle the boss for them extra hours, and get saving! And you will STILL likely be barel scraping to get anything, and eeking to run it when you do.

But, as said, actual bike is last thing on the list that needs sorting, and what yo are looking at and plotting around, is just la-la land; by no stretch can those bikes be considered cheap or cheap to run, and as for the insurance for one, answer is look at more sensible bikes!.... after sorting everything else that needs sorting, and if you want to save money, don't pay some-one else to spend theirs; save up; spend your own... especially if you are on a limited and not too certain income.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Pjay]

Tef, please stop putting people off riding motorised cycles.
____________________
struan80 - I'll go first - satisfied tick 1

[Teflon-Mike]

[ThatDippyTwat]

Brevity, not content, is the issue here Tef. Keep it short eh?

Most lose the will to ride a bike halfway through, and the will to live if they make it to the end.
____________________
'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[Evil Hans]

[Mattxd]

[Tracer1234]

[Alpineandy]

[MahatmaAndhi]

[Mattxd]

[Tracer1234]

[Mattxd]

Checked some "fake" bikes like the Sukida SK125 which I believe is a copy of a Honda CG125. £550 for the bike with 12k mileage fromt he year 2007.

Third-party insurance goes down to only £550 annual.

Any other good Chinese/Japanese copies?

[asta1]

[MahatmaAndhi]

Kymco, Sym and Hyosung are often bundled in with the Chinese, despite being Taiwanese (Kymco and Sym) and S. Korean (Hyosung).
Their chopper style bikes seem to have less than favourable build quality, but the regular naked bikes seem okay.

Personally, I had a Zontes Monster (Chinese) and it seemed pretty good. No issues which I couldn't sort out... and I am a complete novice.
____________________
2008 Aprilia Sportcity 250

[Alpineandy]

[andyscooter]

With a 50 quid a week budget I would look at whatever is for sale close

First insurance on anything will cost what ever thou buy
____________________
gilera runner vxr200 (chavped)
if its spelt wrong its my fat fingers and daft auto correct on my tablet

[Teflon-Mike]

At 17, you aren't going to get particularly sensible insurance quotes on very much, and on a 125, of almost any value, you will pretty much be paying for 3rd-Party only, whatever level of over you opt for.

Excesses are you agreeing t pay the first part of any claim; so; lets say you bought a five year old YBR125 for £1200, and a month after buying it, it gets nicked from the college car park....

You claim for theft; ins-co will pay you what THEY deem the market value of the bike to be... doesn't matter f you paid £800 or £2000 for it.. o what you told them you paid for it on the application; they will go to the price guides; pick the lowest value for that make model and year, knock a bit off and make you an offer, based on that, minus any 'compulsory' XS, then less any 'voluntary' XS. (Up to the value you declared on proposal)

Lets say they don't argue the value, and agree the bike was worth £1200; they will then offer you £1200 less the compulsory XS, say £500, then less the voluntary XS, say £750... oh ear, £750+£500 is ore than the vale of the bike.... you don't get any cash back. You have to find new bike out your own pocket.

Lets say you get lucky and the XS's are £300 compulsory and £500 voluntary; £1200 value, less those excesses mean they will pay you £400.. you have to find the rest to go buy another bike... and when you get one... you get stung again....

When they pay out on a 'total loss'; the policy you bought is ended. Doesn't matter if bike was nicked onin the first week of the policy or the last; the policy is ended, and you DO NOT get paid back for any unused months of insurance; the policy was used when you made the total loss claim and 'settled when they paid you for the bike. So you have 'lost' not just the £800 in policy excesses, but also, however many months of insurance were left on the policy, perhaps another £600 worth or more.... Ie you are out of pocket by around £1200, the total value of the bike....

But persevere; find the cash to buy another; now you have to take out a new policy on that one; after finding the £800 or so to make up the difference between what they paid and what new bike costs; Go get quotes on that, and even f t is exact same make, model and age, YO now have a claim against you, and the new premium will be higher; if you were paying £1200 a year, it will likely go up by half a again, and you will have to find £1800 to insure the new bike... Ie likely that the new premium will be more than whatever they paid you to start with, so you are not just replacng the bike that was nicked out your own pocket, you are actually PAYING the insurance co for the privilidge of having made a claim!

This is a harsh reality, Sorry....

But s another damn good reason to NOT get into the game of buying the insurance o the monthly plan.... remember its a loan to pay for a years insurance, and in SO many cases, after they have paid-out for a theft, you will actually be left still owing MORE than they have paid you, to the loan company for the insurance that's now ended, and for which remaining loan is now due to be repaid, in full.....

It's even worse if you buy a bike on credit where any pay-out that the ins-co make goes straight to the fiance company, they pay them market value of the bike, less your XS's.. which usually leaves a HUGE gap between you borrowed and the outstanding interest charges, for you to pay, and 'immediately' if you check the small print of the loan, as you are no-longer owner of the bike that's been stolen, and credit co cant reposess it!

As such; 'the system' is strategically arranged to be punitive against younger higher risk riders, and in effect, your insurance is often worth little more than third party only; Ins co will pay out for any damage you do to someone else; BUT, on TPF&T or even FC cover, the extended cover to pay you out for loss, is often practically worthless.

Cold hard fact; when you get a bike; it is likely that IF it is stolen... you will actually be out of pocket claiming for the theft. You crash the bike; even if you hav Fully-Comp insurance, again, likely outcome of a claim is that you will be out of pocket, and better off paying for repairs yourself.

On which basis; best advice we can offer is get some peril sensitive sunglasses, CBR's and YZF-R1's do NOT look 'sexy'.... rally they don't.... especially with an L-Plate hung off the back! Even less so with a spotty oik with acne and helmet hair, doing an impression of a drowned rat, fumbling with a D-lock stood next to them, in the college car-park!

Old, cheap and ugly, are cheaper to insure for starters, and less nickeable; and an awful lot easier to shrug off the loss of an 'ugly' £700 'heap, if you bin it, or if it gets nicked, and console yourself you can buy another one, and only have to pay the £70 odd 'admin' fees to the insurance to change the reg-no on your policy, than be even more hundreds out of pocket for the few quid they may pay out to end your cover.

For the first couple of years you are on CBT/A1, running cheap-heaps; buying TPO insurance or as it IS somethings cheaper TPF&T with no intention of ever making a clam, and hoping no-one has cause to claim against you, in that time to get a couple of years of No-Claims-Discount accrued IS the smart play.

As to Fake YBR's... there are a few about, and some are eve basgd as 'Yamaha'.. they just aren't 'official' Mitsui-Yamaha UK imports; they are China-makret models, 'parallel' imported by independent dealers, and ofte NOT supported by Yamaha dealers, a often not the same specification as UK market bikes, with perhaps different lamps or carbs instead of fuel injection etc, and usually built to the lower standard of the YBR 'copies' sold as AJS or Sinns, or Lexmoto etc.

Quality of these may be a bit better than the usual generic chinks with unheard of names like the Sukida or Samyang, or Yamazooki!! But probably not!

Warning offered about the chinks is that if you know enough to live with one, you'd know enough not to by one! Certainly not brand new.

As said, the 'costs' are often hidden in the resale, when they can be almost worthless after just 3-years; some before even that. There are plenty of cons about, and the usual one s that they get sold not as motorcycles, but motorcycle parts; which if you are lucky, the seller may provide a certificate of conformity with, so you can self register it; or they may even 'hide' that, when they get you to go through the paperwork, and fill in the reg forms for you, but send them off in your name; so when you get the registration, looks to you like you have bought a road-vehicle, but i fact, you have bought a box of motorcycle bits or gardening equipment, that YOU have wittily or not, registered for the road; makes it cheap, but also means that you are on pretty shaky ground vis warranty and or sale of goods as what they old doesn't have to be 'ft-for-purpose' as a road vehicle... that's not what they sold you... just how you chose to use it!

There are many who have bought 'cheap' chinky bkes that have ever even made it to the road, as the customer has got lost n the red-tape of self registration they have found themselves in, usually n the catch 22 of needing insurance before they can register it, and not being able to get insurance unless it's registered! More still, have enjoyed the 3-year 'MOT Exemption' new vehicles have, only to discover at the first MOT that the bike doesn't pass one! And probably wouldn't the day they bought it... as it was supplied with forks not fitted and stuff like that!

But dodge those bullets, and for three years or however long, you have a sub-standard bike, built for Asian markets; often speed restricted to 55mph, so lacking the performance of genuine UK machines, that also lacks the reliability, and demands an awful lot of extra user maintenance, you 'may' tolerate for the upfront savings... but can be another ightmare, when you cant order parts off the shelf by make-model-year, like you should for genuine UK market YBR... as the stoksts dont know what the heck the bike is... supplier having got your money for the bike, isn't interested in selling bits, and you are down to trying to best guess whether stuff on e-bay will do the job... so not 'easy' to live with for the time you have them... and if you have to pay a mechac, if one will lift a spanner to one, and many wont, loose a lot of any savng you made along the way, to find, when you are done with it, you cant get anything like sensible money for it, folk that will look will either want a real bargain, or be able t buy a brand new one; THEN you find outthe true cost of them; which is often, all in MORE than a YBR, to not have the performance or the easy life with it along the way.

Buying 2nd hand, where they can be incrdibly 'cheap' may save a fair chunk of Chinky bike deprecation.... BUT.. risks still remain they wont be cheap or easy to live with for it....

They do make some sense as 'disposeable' machines; you can hack until they drop; and are no great loss if they get nicked or crashed... BUT you have to balence one risk against another....

And all in, the YBR still tends to come out streets ahead for all round easy to live with, dependable, full quota of performance, reliability, ecconomy and all the over-the-counter ease of living with one, and often still the cheapest 'option'.

On that score; you are looking at £1000 a year insurance, on possibly a £1500 bike. You might save £700 on a generic Chink on buy price, o if nicked, you have saved enough to buy another... on the other hand, if it's not, you get however much less than sparking ride time from it, and however much more hassle and expense along the way... like I said, its balencing risks.

Lexmoto sell a derivative of the YBR, under thier own brand name, as do AJS, and I think Sinnis.... TBH I would avod the SINIS brand on the whole, a lot of thier models are more dressed up dirt bikes; that have a pretty poor reputation, and aren't actually all that cheap.

On balance, you may get a newer Chink for your money, and it may be a tad cheaper to insure, IF its a make in any-ones listings like Lexmoto.. take heed, many ins-co wont sure unheard of chinks, and offer effoff quotes if they do; some are more realistic; it is an even bigger mine-field....BUT, yo would still likely have a much easier life, buying a similar priced, older genuine UK market YBR, and be carryng not a lot dfferent level of risk, either of cost or hassle, and have a bike more likely to be that bit more easy to live with as well as a tad more spritely on the road.

Advice then would be to put on peril sensitive sunglasses, and go buy a YBR for around the £1500 mark, and some chunky locks!

As far as insurance goes; expect that you will loose; so don't take chances! USE dem locks! And be a bit careful where you park it.

Third-Party Fire & Theft will often be cheaper than Third-Party-Only, so quote on both. Expect that the XS game will mean that if the bike's stolen you will end up out of pocket, so accept that risk, and plan, IF it gets nicked not to claim, and at least keep the residual value of the policy, and possibly even still earn your years NCB at the end. So, you may accept a hefty compulsary and even heftier voluntary policy XS FOR THEFT... but read the small-print VERY effin carefully... BEFORE you hand over cash for one.

If you plan to use the bike to get to and from work or college, it WILL put your premium up, but check the box for 'including commuting'.. if you don't and if you have an accident, in rush-hour, they can use the 'false declaration' against you!

Also don't be tempted to declare a load of security devices, presuming that will bring premium down; often they wot, and some can actually put it up!

Eg; tempting to tick the box for the bike being garaged over-night.. after all, if t gets nicked you wont be claiming, will you? BUT, ins co cover the bike; IF the bikes nicked ad twocker rides it into the side of a Benly carrying a family of budding brain surgeons, insurance STILL have to pay out for to the third-party.....if you have declared the bike garaged over-night; and it wasn't.. then as breach of contract Ins co may peruse you to recoup whatever they have had to pay out for the life-time care of crippled brain surgeons and a new Bently! They may not... BUT folk have been pursued for consequential costs; so DON'T be tempted to lie, on the proposal. If you don't have a garage don't declare one.

There really isn't any super cheat codes to the game; you just have to grunt through it, and apply a lot of caution and a heck of a lot of common sense.

But; getting your provisional licence, is the start; then checking around for a CBT course; ask questions of teh school, maybe go buy your crah hat, gloves, sensible footwear and water-proofs, pack sarnies and go do... then take it from there... emember its a course, you may ot complete n the day; so dont get disheartened f you dont get out on the road on day one....

Once that's in your pocket; Count pennies in your pocket; then you can go bike hunting; peril sensitive spex, on sod the way the bike looks; nothing looks good with an L-Plate and an oiky teeanger on the top!

Set your budget; and remember to keep some in reserve for the insurance, and first fettle; all bikes need work, and few flog bikes if they are all fixed up and fully servced ready to go for the next 20K miles! Expect to do some basic maintenance as soon as you get it, if just to be sure it has had some!

Dont by first bike you look at' take your time; look at whats n offer; ut the time in there, looking at REAL bikes in the REAL world... sod what the reviewers may have said about them when new; these bikes are now in the real world and will have had however many numpty or possibly contientiouse owners; CONDITION IS ALL... of actual real bikes in the real world.... not what the papers say! They dont know i some twit has been ragging it up and down the motorway at 800 miles a week for the last 3-months without any oil in it! Or if they have crashed t, or if they have diligently replaced tyres and chain and sprockets every week, whether needed or no!

COMMON SENSE, and a little bit of savvy.. looking at real bikes in the real world....

Get clued up before you go see, what likely insurance cost will be be IF you buy, and be sure you can afford it; Also check the cost of comon service spars like tyres, chain and sprockets, brake pads, oil, spark-plug and filters.. and PLAN non doing a postpurchase service, ad dng a far bit of the work on the list, needing a fair few of the service spares, pretty much as soon as you get it home.

NOW.. whether the bikes bent, bashed rusty ad bggery, covered in mud, or held together with oat-hanger wire, cable tes and gaffer tape, is far more mportant than where it was made, what name is on the tank, or whether the pundits reckoned it was 2mph faster on a drag stirp than something else they tested a week before!

Remember, you can only buy bikes people actually have for sale... you need go look at them, for real, in the real world.

To-Wit.. get off the net.. get on the bus... get stuff moving.. or Stop Thinking - Start Riding....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Tracer1234]

https://s20.postimg.org/rdjeqathp/Screenshot_2017-06-05_at_22.05.59.png
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15

[Mattxd]

Jesus Christ how do you write so much?

But anyways, sure I get your point and so far I'll be having a look if I can find a cheap YBR and comparing insurance quotes whether third party or tpft whichever proves to be cheaper.

I'd rather go for a trusted manufacturer and have less hassle with parts than buy a cheap Chinese bike and possibly have it in limbo for month or two just because I can't find a part for it.

As for £1200 for the bike and £1000 for insurance is kinda the good scenario for me. I'll do some more research, but is there anymore bikes like the YBR125 that are worth the same prices? Aka an ugly commuter worth £1200 used?

As for insurance I probably will risk getting third party only and combat that by making the bike look quite older along with disc locks, ignition cutoff button, anchor + chain, smart water and maybe an alarm but didn't seem worth getting one to me.

An alarms pretty worthless, even in a house it ain't like if a house alarm goes off everyone is gonna come running to your yard fighting the thiefs.