Now, I need to decide on a bike..

Mattxd wrote:

I'd rather go for a trusted manufacturer

The Japanese Big-4 (Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki & Yamaha) have been slowly retreating from the small-bike market since emissions killed the two-strokes; hence the proliferation of Chinese built copies and derivatives of older, air-cooled 4-stroke Japanese designs, successively de-tuned and de-rated to meet standards and price points....

The Yamaha YBR125 IS actually Chinese.. built in china in a joint-venture with I think Jainshe.

The Honda CBF125, was made in India, again in a joint-venture, and they have made various other models in other asian factories, in partnership with companies like Shinrey... which opens up a whole can of worms vis the Chinky bike debate... and more, with Honda having satellite plants in Italy and Span specializing in the small displacement models; and Suzuki having partner plant in Portugal, and partnering with other small manufacturers, supplying engines etc.

There aren't many European bike manufacturers any more, and even fewer that make bikes in the 125 segment; most are Italian or Spanish... Cagiva, Aprillia and Derbi... probably the more renowned. These made thier names on two-strokes, most often making hot-snot teen-dream machines around 'proprietary' engines like the Minerelli or Rotax. Since their demise, they have been building bikes in joint venture with the Japanese, or using Chinese sourced 4-stroke engines.
Not that they were particularly 'trusted' manufacturers to begin with.

Does rather leave the matter hanging whether there are any, really, in the 125 segment any more, particularly in the utility-commuter arena.

Mattxd wrote:

I'll do some more research, but is there anymore bikes like the YBR125 that are worth the same prices? Aka an ugly commuter worth £1200 used?

Honda's rival to the Chinese built Yamaha YBR s the Indian built CBF... there have been some reported issues over the quality of finish and fast rust problems on shiny bits of them in the UK.. which I don't doubt, but suspect are probably exaggerated by market expectations set by the Honda Big-Bikes. New in the show-room, the two were priced within a few quid of each other subject to on the day offers and discounts; the Yamaha generally being a hundred quid or so the cheaper; but other wise, very little between the two to tip a choice.

Suzuki & Kawasaki haven't offered a 125 in the UK for a long while; The Suzuki GN125 was their rival to the YBR, but I believe most that have come to or shores the last 10 years or so are Parallel imports, and probably Portuguese made, if you are lucky!

Yamaha have in the last five years picked up the mantle and have been evolving a new rage of 125's around the YZF-R125 motor, and the MT125, is an interesting attempt to make a more 'sensible' commuter/naked 125, with a bit more pep than most, but without so much cost as the chrome or plastic play-things... but, a little too pricey to be a 'cheap' utility 125, it's a pretty slim gap in the market It's trying to fill; and it's not been about long enough really for there to be many 2nd hand examples about, less still in your £1200ish price range.

This leaves you pretty slim-pickings, really....

So Yamaha YBR125 still has to be top-trump-choice.

Honda CBF125, remains the main rival; but seems to have slightly stronger used prices due to the Honda reputation, a slightly larger frame and a muteably slightly more upmarket 'styling' and equiment... still little between them to tip a choce, and as said, comes down to real bikes in the real world and condition is all.

Suzuki GN125? You will probably find in the lower end of your budget; They were always a budget option, and even more built down to a price. Risk of buying a non-official UK import is higher, and after-market support for them isn't as good as for the Yamaha or Honda; but, pobably still better than for most generic chinks.

Lexoto.. have done an awful lot to try and build a brand around re-branded chinese bikes; B-U-T.. they don't have Honda's dealer-network, or Yamaha's after-market support; they are one of the 'better' Chinky options.. but they are still a Chink....

Good news IS that because of the slim pickings 'new' there are a lot of YBR's and CBF's on the 2nd hand market.... IF you are determined to work that way around, and decide what you want from the brochures, then hope, some-one has one for sale when you go shopping....

Which IS the point... CONDITION IS ALL!

There are a lot of other 2nd hand bikes out there, and the market is a minefield. As said, 125's tend to live pretty hard lives, in the hands of learners and penny-pinching commuters;

UK population is around 60million people; most drive cars. So there are around 30 million cars in the UK...there are only about 250,000 motorcycles.... 125,000 of them will be under 125cc, 1/3 of them will be mopeds; and 2/3 of the rest will be twist and go scooters; that means that there are only around 50,ooo 125cc 'motorcycles' in the whole country, taxed tested and available to use on the road.... most owners will likely keep them around 2 years so only 1/2 are likely to be offered for sale in any one year, 1/12 of them in any one month.... So there are likely only around 2000 125cc motorcycles of ALL makes and models actually for sale, the length and breadth of the country at any one time..... A lot of them will be less known generic Chinese brands; more will be the aspirational models like the YZF-R125 or CBR125, or Cruisers...

NOW start to discount anything out of your price range... shall we say over £1800. 'ad-price'. That will likely dismiss most of the newer and more expensive Hondas and Yamahas like CBR's or R125's from the pool, as well as a lot of the dealer offered YBR's and CBF's... dismiss anything under £700, and you will get rid of the basket cases of old clunkers, like 'just needs top end rebuild' NSR's or old CG's held together with gaffer tape and good wishes! Probably wont get rid of all the generic chinks, especially the more tarty ones that were challenging YBR prices when new; BUT that will leave you something in the order of 500 bikes, in your budget, in the whole country you might buy.... 2/3 of them will be in the south of the country ans that's where 2/3 the country's population live. The rest will be spread the length and breadth of....

You are NOT going to be tripping over them on your door-step; and sellers wont be beating a path to your door to ask if you want to buy them!!

Unfortunate fact is that the 125 market is a seller's market; there are FAR more folk that want them, than there are bikes offered for sale. and most of those buyer's are at the best none too clued up, over optimistic and got cash burning a hole in their pocket desperate to get their hands on a bike....

SO.. you have to be realistic; chances of finding a particular make and model of bike, chances that bike will tick all your boxes, down to the colour option, AND be a 'bargain' s negligible!

ANYTHING that is worth buying, is likely to be sold very quickly....and unlikely to sell for much of a 'bargain' price.

SO... you have to hit the streets! Pound shoe leather! GO look at real bikes, in the real world! And try and get to them before any-one else with fivers in their pockets; You have to keep your enthusiasm in check, and NOT fall for seller's patter; and be a bit clued up what you should look for to better spot a better one....

Knowing that a YBR or CBF is the better bet, what is for sale you can actually get to and have a look at? What else is there, in budget that MAY be worth a look?

THEN... questions you should be asking is not what's the best make/model/year... But what should I be looking for? What questions should I be asking the seller?

Get into the real world, stop asking about theoretical bikes in the brochures; start asking about real actual individual examples in the ads... ones that are in your price range; in your area you can get at to view, and possibly buy.

Don't limit search to specific models, remember there shouldn't be that many of them on offer at any one time. Consider alternatives and googlies too; and put in the leg work on those, before you go look, to know what you should look for...

And top tip... you should be as wary of the seller as the bike!

Ask questions, like what sort of oil they pt in it? Where do they put it? How often does it need it? How frequently do they check ad tension the chain? How hard a job is it? Where's the sump plug? Dont let then start the bike for you! Check the engines cold when you poke and prod; then ask THEM to show you where the choke is and whch way s on and off, and how much choke t usually needs and for how long; ask what the tyre pressures should be; These are the things you will be taught on CBT, and the seller, IF they have used the bike, and looked after it half decently SHOULD be able to tell you.. if not.. then they probably haven't been non to diligent on any of the other maintenance or basic care of the bike...

Whole raft of stuff to pay heed to on a bike; but on some-one's drive, there isn't much you can check in great detail, other than the seller.. and the paper-work, so DO make sure you check VIN numbers and mileage against papers etc.

BUT... your first step remains the CBT... which is your first lesson... and there is a HECK of a lot of advice offered in there, as well as learning and not all of t is about riding.... go do, get clued up; get a 'feel' for the matter; RIDE a bike, find out how they should behave; get a better handle on what is more or less important to have some references to judge bikes you may buy when you go view.. and ASK the instructor what they think you should look for when going to view a bike for sale! THAT is the sort of stuff CBT is supposed to be for, THAT is why they teach you basic controls and pre-ride checks etc.. and instructor will likely be happy to expand that for what you should look for when buying, annd even go through some of the checks you can do, with the school-bike whilst about it.

Hence here and ow, that is your start pint, your first step; bike s still the last thing o the list of stuff you need; and real world, hands on, is what will get you where you want to get, not deliberating specs, dong research ad pontificating brochure specs of bikes that might not even be for sale! Or anywhere you could get at them to hand over cash for!

THAT is probably the more important and pertinant query for you to consider, Here and now; after CBT.. how far can you go to view a bike? How would you get there? How IF you bought bike, would you get it home? Ride it? Can you get tax and insurance on the spot? Know any-one with a van or trailer? How any favours might you need beg, do? How much petrol money might you have to offer in bribe for lifts?

This sort of incidental 'practicality' of the real world is far more significant to the job, than the etherial stuff you can find out 'on-line'...

Stop 'Thinking- Start... well, you cant start riding just yet... but.. start doing stuff i the real world that will get you closer.

Booking CBT at top of the list... unless you still have to apply for your provisional.. in which case get down the post office, get the applicatio forms and some mug shots, and get a teacher at college to counter sign the back and the forms to say its you, and get the forms sent off! THEN book CBT as soon as you have a driver's no.

In the mean time; getting basic kit; if needs is about as much as you can really be getting on with; and after reviewing ads and the 'sort' of bikes on offer, and the 'sort' of prices they go for, and the 'sort' of distance you will likely have to travel to go see anything.. start talking to friends and family; checking bus and train time-tables; look at the logistics of how you might go buy a bike, rather than what bike you might buy. Who can help you, when will THEY be available to help, etc etc etc....

No point deciding on your perfect bike, if no one has one for sale, or you cant get to any that are; whether when you get there, it may be any good or a half decent deal or not.. first steps, and doing each bit in order, in the real world, sort the real world problems, in turn.
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