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why are speed limits the same on both sides of the road?

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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 07:39 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: why are speed limits the same on both sides of the road? Reply with quote

Why are speed limits always the same on both sides of the road? The bike specificity and thus direct relevance to GBC might seem dubious - given that such limits apply equally to all vehicles. In mitigation though, we do like to use our superior acceleration - an advantage over the vast majority of other vehicles.

So for instance, a classic example - exiting a street lit village on a long straight, you will probably go through a 40 mph zone. This makes some sort of sense when entering it - but on the way out it's stupid.

It seems there's a resolute reluctance to permit traffic going in one direction to move at a different speed than the other. I really can't fathom why this should be, though. I dare say the actual reasoning is obvious, even if questionable - but I honestly can't suss it out.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:05 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm, and road signs are directional.

However, road surface generally isn't. The faster the speed limit, the higher the standard of maintenance required (by regulations).

What particularly grinds my gears are those idiotic bumpy-strips designed for haptic feedback to slow you down as you enter Sandford, which stretch across both lanes so that you rumble over them as you exit too. Mad
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 08:19 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also regs for traffic street light spacing.
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Last edited by stinkwheel on 08:55 - 09 Jun 2017; edited 1 time in total
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bamt
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PostPosted: 08:25 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

What particularly grinds my gears are those idiotic bumpy-strips designed for haptic feedback to slow you down as you enter Sandford, which stretch across both lanes so that you rumble over them as you exit too. Mad


That's pretty common. I though the idea was that drivers aren't tempted to swerve into the other lane to avoid them.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Also regs for traffic light spacing.

Oh, right, and street light spacing. Close together = 30 zone.
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Groove
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not always the same. There's a stretch of a12 near me that goes from single to dual carriageway for half a mile. One direction it is 50mph with a speed camera and the other is nsl.

Before the 50 limit it is nsl single carriageway (both directions).
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davethekwak
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

When did bike riders start taking such interest in speed limits?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

davethekwak wrote:
When did bike riders start taking such interest in speed limits?



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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Groove wrote:
It's not always the same.


Indulge me.
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G
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also the M4 as it goes into London, though that's a bit of a bigger 'difference' between the two sides too.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dem 40 buffer zones though mirite
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand how separate carriage ways can be different but on a 2 lane road buffer zone entering a village like you said, if you are on the NSL bit do you have to slow down to 40 if you overtake and enter the 40mph carriage way?

Also, cars in the 40 are not going to expect cars going at 60 plus heading for them, again, especially if overtaking.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that there is legal reason in the difference between a 'road' a 'carriageway' and a 'lane'.

Law imposes a speed limit on a 'road' between two points; whilst a vehicle should 'keep left' (unless passing), doesn't matter which
'lane' they are n, that's the speed limit for the road.

Where have spotted sped limits that are different on different side of the 'road', it has tended to be on divided duel-carriageways; where the speed restrictions may be slightly staggered. So for a few hundred yards, you may have a 50 or NSL on the side exiting the built up area, whilst the other side had lower calming limits on the approach. (And ISTR a duel carriageway around a big hill, 'some-where' that had a lower limit on the carriageway higher up the hill, on a tighter bend, than the lower...)

Now we get to the exception, that may prove or even explain the rule, in 'tidal-flow' systems, where speed limits are applied to an individual 'lane'...

I believe that the principle of Tidal flow traffic control was piloted on the A38 Aston Expressway in Brum.. and they pulled up the central divider, that had made it a duel carriageway to make it a single carriageway, seven lane road, with gangtree signage to not just change speed limit but even the direction of traffic in the middle lane.... but it took a specific Act of Parliament to actually allow the scheme, which held up it's adoption in other parts of the country for almost 20 years, before they could apply it to a Motorway, where swapping lanes between carriageways, from in-bound to out-bound is hampered by the legal necessity of a median divider, to 'be' a motorway, which has lead to sections of the M42, opening the hard-shoulder as a driving lane to effect tidal-flow control.

So I suspect that there is 'reason'.. lurking in the lop-holes of red-tape, and is down to the legal differences between a lane and a carriageway of a 'road'.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Also, cars in the 40 are not going to expect cars going at 60 plus heading for them, again, especially if overtaking.


Hmm yeah - well, at least that's a theory. I mean, it has a logic to it, for sure. I seem to remember though, that when I went on holiday to Italy (Umbria) a few years ago, they actually did have different speed limits on different sides of the road. Slower for going into a village, faster for coming out. I *think* this was what was going on, anyway. I definitely recall saying to myself wow yeah that makes way more sense. Why don't we do that, etc. etc. So, if I was right in what I was seeing (knowing me I probably wasn't ; - )), perhaps it's just nothing more than a cultural thing. Our road developers have assumed cars going into the 40 won't expect stuff doing 60 coming out (and more pertinently, that this will cause more accidents), and elsewhere, such assumptions have never been made, never occurred to developers, etc. and so quite other strategies regarding limits have been made.

In both cases, it worries me a bit that there's simply no real research been conducted on e.g. how many accidents actually occur in either of these examples - and that, in fact, both approaches are just based on assumptions about what's safest/most efficient/the best for "traffic flow" etc. etc.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 15:28 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
I seem to remember though, that when I went on holiday to Italy (Umbria) a few years ago, they actually did have different speed limits on different sides of the road.

Using Italy's traffic management as a precedent to support an argument for 'road-sense' is rather like using American cuisine as a precedent for healthy eating !
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah - true!
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a road near me that's NSL one way and 50mph the other direction,

This is purely because it spans council areas and one end has put it to 50mph, the other end has not!
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doggone
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A greater annoyance is that 30/40 limits - fair enough when people are about - being enforced by cameras at dead of night or other times when its almost deserted.
You could make a good case for more or less making all speed limits advisory with stricter enforcement of due care and attention.
So often you seem to spend way too much time repeatedly checking your speed which distracts you from actually looking for hazards.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate it if my teaspoon does not fit the profile of the inside of a yogurt pot. (No matter which angle of dangle I use.)

Who likes leaving a tiny scraping of their favourite flavour coz the spoon is shite?
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
A greater annoyance is that 30/40 limits - fair enough when people are about - being enforced by cameras at dead of night or other times when its almost deserted.
You could make a good case for more or less making all speed limits advisory with stricter enforcement of due care and attention.
So often you seem to spend way too much time repeatedly checking your speed which distracts you from actually looking for hazards.


Given that they have abandoned 'advisory' speed limits that used to be posten on corners, or were posted around road-works, because folk paid them scant heed, and/or they were abused by local councils using them to dodge the due process to enforce mandatory limits in the face of interest-groups and petitions ; and that the 'ambiguity' of the:-
https://projectbritain.com/customs/questions/images/clothes/sixty.jpg
Sign, that many folk didn't really understand, ad interpreted as 'National Speed Limit' ad errantly assumed that was 70mph, not 60, and how many habitually ignore road conditions, weather conditions etc, and believe that if the sign says 50 then 50 must be 'safe' regardless of what they can see in the road, so many have ow been re-classified and subject to specific speed limits, usually lower than 60.....

It is highly unlikely that any convincing argument might be made to go back to a system that patently didn't really work!

Better argument could be made for variable speed limits; especially around school zones, where the limits and parking restrictions are only really necessary for that hour in the morning and hour in the evening when the little darlings are going to or coming from the school, 5 days out of seven a week, 38 weeks t of 52 a year, and those 'restrictions' are of absolutely no 'real' ad to safety for 95% of the time the road is open to all traffic!

As to stricter enforcement and better driver/rider education; that is similarly already onto a looser. GATSO and ANPR has shifted enforcement away from manual towards automatic; where offenses don't need to be appraised by a human or even argued by a human; lines are clear, electronic digital decision making does the job.. no discretion or judgement required, no need to complicate the matter looking at extenuating factors; let the lawyers worry about that, IF the accused chooses to, now, I believe that regs have changed that CPS are no longer liable for costs, even if the loose a motoring case!

Given that they have been looking for ever righter more clear cut 'digital' legislation to save having to 'prove' cases as is, do you really think that they will support a shift back to old fashioned and going out of fashion! 'Discretion' and common sense?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
I hate it if my teaspoon does not fit the profile of the inside of a yogurt pot. (No matter which angle of dangle I use.)

Who likes leaving a tiny scraping of their favourite flavour coz the spoon is shite?


Since when did your felching metaphors become so elaborate?? Mr. Green
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iooi
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
A greater annoyance is that 30/40 limits - fair enough when people are about - being enforced by cameras at dead of night or other times when its almost deserted.


Fine... But it only requires the one drunk and opps.... you are dead...

doggone wrote:

You could make a good case for more or less making all speed limits advisory with stricter enforcement of due care and attention.


And therein is a major issue.... Little tom, who has only just passed his test in his souped up corsa thinks that flat out is OK everywhere, but someone who has been driving for years knows better that you can't.

doggone wrote:

So often you seem to spend way too much time repeatedly checking your speed which distracts you from actually looking for hazards.


You do not need to keep checking the speedo. If you have learnt anything, you should be able to tell just how to maintain the same speed by feel and sound with no issues.
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suburban myth
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PostPosted: 05:44 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd expect a single carriageway to be the same speed throughout. The only notable exception I can think of is the Aston Expressway - essentially a smart motorway with no dividing barrier but the example of the dual given earlier, tells me that on the 50 side there must be a junction within the section, perhaps making the requirement for the reservation in the first place (ie no right turns)
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:37 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
I hate it if my teaspoon does not fit the profile of the inside of a yogurt pot. (No matter which angle of dangle I use.)

Who likes leaving a tiny scraping of their favourite flavour coz the spoon is shite?

That's why you should file your spoons to a point so that you can get right into the angles or shank a bitch.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Symmetry, to keep the spergs happy!
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