Brake fluid waste

[ws4936]

Been trying to bleed the ninja, but after cracking open the calipers and replacing the oil seals, dust seals, she just won't bleed to the way she was. Just bought another bottle of RBF 600(online), and cable tied the lever in as there nowt else I can do. Next step is to sting the fukers up and bleed upright before mounting back to bike. Anyone else had a bitch of a job like this, and how much brake fluid have you gone through - worse case scenario?
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

[CaNsA]

Put the bars on full left lock and bleed.

It will help any air trapped in the M/C escape into the resv.

[ws4936]

Tried that mate. It's weird af riding it. Obviously air is compressing more than the fluid but temperature changes how much the lever comes back.
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

[andym]

After being told I had air in my braking system (many times), I bought one of these for a couple of quid:
https://wemoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/banjobleed-100-2.jpg
I fitted it at the highest point (next to the master cylinder), bled the brakes (as well as stripping, cleaning and fitting new seals, washers and brake pads), and still get a spongy brake lever after a few seconds

[ws4936]

That interesting....I'm trying to tell myself it's all in my head, my GPZ has spongy brakes. On the ninja, the brake levers travel alters, I'm assuming due to temperature change and the air in the lines. It will stop the bike as sharp as ya like, but the lever being pulled in will vary but for the same braking effort. I hope this makes sense - kinda drinking - so this makes sense to me....lol
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

[P.]

Bleed from bottom up. Grab syringe and go for it from the furthest end.

[Robby]

My standard easy/lazy brake bleeding, after I've had the system drained down for any reason.

1. Make tea.
2. Bleed nipple closed, all brake lines secure, master cylinder cap removed.
3. Keep pumping the lever until it firms up. Lots of tiny bubbles in the reservoir. Take about 20 minutes. Vary your stroke.
4. Once it has firmed up, bleed a couple of times at the bleed nipple. This is just to remove the tiny pocket of air sitting under the nipple.

Air bubbles rise through fluid, but they move through brake fluid fairly slowly. Time is your friend. Let the air bubbles raise to highest points in the system - the line just below the master cylinder, and the caliper below the bleed nipple.

[Rogerborg]

[skatefreak]

In the same shoes as you a few years back.
After two evenings trying to get the brake to firm up I just lost it and went full rage on it, flipping it back and forth as fast as I could manage...

Low an behold it dislodged the air and lever firmed right up again...

[stinkwheel]

Put a rag under the top banjo, get a spanner on it and bleed it there in the same way as you would at the bleed nipple. You can often have a large bubble of air in there.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[davethekwak]

Which ninja, which calipers?
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ZX6R G2 (1999) & ZX6R F2 (1996). I like ZX6!

[Baffler186]

I would echo Paddy and RogerBorg's advice. Slowly squirting fluid in from the bottom usually does the trick, if you can get someone to tap the caliper and the line whilst you do it, then all the better.

You must ensure a tight seal on the nipple though. It is possible, as I found out, to have a tight enough seal on the nipple for it not to leak, but it will suck a tiny amount of air in.

Once the reservoir fills up, you can seal off the system, suck some fluid out the reservoir and push some more fluid in if you want. If absolutely nothing will firm the lever up then check your threads and washers at each end of the line, as you might not have a perfect seal. Again, if your system has a tiny leak, it can be enough to let air in but not still not be sufficient to notice any fluid leaking out.
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Current: 2009 SV650 S, 1990 Kawasaki GT550
Previous: 2009 CBF125, 1998 GSF600, 2004 FZ6 Fazer, 1978 CB400a Hondamatic

[bikenut]

Is the very tiny hole at the "pressure" end of the master cylinder res floor blocked??

I assume the master cylinder was striped down, lubed by brake fluid on re assembly and "primed" on fitting??

Airated fluid ( tiny bubbles, like an aero choc bar but fluid if you understand me ) must be allowed to "clear" which can take some time.

With a fully master cylinder res, and the lever blade pumped, any air bubbles from the tiny "recouperating hole" ??

If system has fluid in it and the caliper pistons are pushed home, fluid will be forced thru the small hole in the res floor, back to the res.

The master cylinder is a pump, but by virtue of the small recouperating res floor hole, fluid will drain down thru an open bleed nipple.

So with master cylinder fitted to bike ( most brake fluids are an excellent paint stripper ), hydraulics fitted as well as caliper and pads/pipes etc, with a full master cylinder res, open nipple and wait of fluid to "come out" of the bleed nipple/nipples.

With fluid come out of each nipple, start at the furthest from the master cylinder. Both nipples closed, pump say 5 time the brake lever relatively quickly releasing the blade at each pump, then hold pressure and undo the nipple slowly.

Pressurised fluid will come out untill blade reaches the handle bars, hold it there and do up that nipple.

Release brake lever blade, count to 4, watch fluid level drop a bit ( to replace "pumped" fluid" ), and repeat process. An assistant is a good idea.

The bleed the other caliper.

Do not re use "bleed fluid". A jam jar and some car windscreen washer clear pipe is useful.

Always works for me. :karma:

PS, brake operated anti dive front forks with its own bleed nipple??
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nuts about bikes

[kgm]

I use a Mitivac vacuum bleeder. Bit expensive but it's an awesome bit of kit. I can get mine from entirely empty to rock solid very quickly.

[Paulf]

I use the sealey vacuum drain pump and use suction on the bleed screw.
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Past bikes simsom mofa 1s, suzuki hustler 250 (£35 in 1973), suzuki ts125k, mz150, yamaha yb 100, honda pc50, honda vision 50, all 2 stroke - then cars - honda pcx 125 (sold) own honda fes 125 and Mrs 125 spares or repairs. Started 1972 all accidents walked away no insurAnce claims

[MCN]

[Commuter_Tim]

I'm a pumper too, I use This one

£20, bled my brakes more times than I can count in the last year.
It has also spent a large portion of its life outside in the garden. (I can't be arsed to clean it, and kept getting brake fluid on paint around the house)
It holds pressure pretty much as good as it did the day I bought it, so extremely well.
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The above post is most likely nonsensical.

I ride a Bandit 600... badly.

[ws4936]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, will try CaNsA's later this week when(if) I get some free time....and I did end up buying a vacuum bleeder/tester, very impressive! Perfect for bleeding if yer on your tod, but she's still being stubborn, so drastic times calls for drastic measures.
Cheers!
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

[sickpup]

The really easy way to bleed any brake system after stripping down.

You will require the necessary tools and 2 metres of silicone fish tank air hose.

1. While reassembling DO NOT push the pistons all the way into the caliper, leave them sticking out about 2mm so there is space behind the back of them for filling with brake fluid.

2. Fill the calipers with brake fluid before refitting the brake hoses. Quicker to do it now than have to pump the fluid through.

The above means the calipers will be filled with brake fluid not air so less air to remove from the system.

3. Attach the silcone hose to the closest bleed nipple to the brake master cylinder and hold the other end up high on a rafter, wall etc and bleed refilling master cylinder as required.

4. Move to each bleed nipple in turn.

5. If necessary apply vacuum by sucking on end of silicone hose with bleed nipple open and then closing it.

6. If the above doesn't work or works badly the chances are the master cylinder seals need replacing.

It really is this easy. The brakes will still work with master cylinder seals on the way out they just won't work as well as they should and will be a nightmare to bleed.

The brakes on my Land Rover which are notoriously a bitch to bleed took about 20 minutes because I followed these steps and had replaced the Master Cylinder so everything worked perfectly.
I've suggested this way of doing things for years but it is always forgotten and people always suggest things like Mityvacs which just aren't needed on a bike.

I've just stripped and rebuilt the front calipers on my Deauville and it took less than 200ml of fluid and 10 minutes to bleed. The bike was MOT'd the next day.

[ws4936]

When I said I would try. CaNsA's method I meant Paddy's confirmed by The Borg, I do appologise....I was drinking.
I bought a few syringes and some tubing and went for the reverse method - I can see why this is better, but something isn't right. On my nearside calliper I'm not getting much joy: disclaimer: it's been a few days since I've tried this and ive been drinking again so memory is hazy: but IIRC(probably not accurately) it's almost like this calliper is almost like it's acting as if it's disconnected from the system almost indipendandelty. Just ordered another couple of bottles of RBF 600 and an M/C rebuild kit from wemoto - hoping this will sort the fucker out. I shall be reverse bleeding one Ive rebuilt the mc. Watch this space and wish me luck.
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If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

[Rogerborg]

[Holdawayt]

You seem to be getting through a lot of brake fluid.

If you're starting with an empty system there's no problem re-using the fluid that you've bled out of the system. We always attach a small bit of tube to the nipple and into a jar. Then re-use what ever we catch providing it's not dirty.

Tom.

[Commuter_Tim]