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Towering Inferno

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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 14 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost entirely Muslim
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:38 - 14 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dave70 wrote:
Being stoned and messing around with highly combustible substances, doesn't seem like the best idea tbh. Thinking

Nothing wrong with playing around with highly combustible substances when stoned unless you choose to ignore all the warnings about not going outside to do the parts which involve cans of lighter gas. Razz

Can't say I've ever tried making it but any guide about it contains warnings about what the dangers of using the cans of lighter gas in a confined space. Laughing
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DOS
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PostPosted: 01:10 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
grr666 wrote:
My money is on weed farm and hotwired electrics.

Maybe but now all the cool kids are blowing themselves up trying to make butane honey oil.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36988316
https://metro.co.uk/2017/04/03/super-strong-shatter-cannabis-hits-the-uk-and-people-are-blowing-themselves-up-6550217/


Yeah,I don't get a fridge exploded and cause all that fire.
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: Towering Inferno Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
I wonder if the insurance payout will account for the extra £10,000,000 spent on it? I presume they have receipts... nudge nudge wink wink.
.


It'll be on a reinstatement policy; it doesn't work like that. On property you don't just wedge the insured out a load of cash and say buy yourself a new one mate. Payment gets made at stages along the rebuild process and costs are checked against similar projects by the loss adjusters.

Most housing association insurances are arranged on a pretty significant deductible both any one incident and in the aggregate. They are likely to be through their agg already with that one. It'll cost them from their own purse for sure.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 08:57 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy Blake wrote:

Yeah,I don't get a fridge exploded and cause all that fire.


Heat source, spark source, fuel in the form of the foam insulation that make up the sides of the fridge and a cylinder
of compressed flammable gas.... That's pretty much all the ingredients for a mini inferno.

I can assure you, it happens.
The silverback in the middle pic is my dad, mum was sat on a chair in shock behind those people to the left of him, the fire
brigade had just been in and rescued their dog. Unfortunately one of their cats ran upstairs to try and escape the flames and
suffocated in the smoke. Took 18 months to put the house right again, I kid you not when I say they lost pretty much everything.

Here's where the fire started.

https://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz250/grrthefearless/Brisky%20shots/fire2_zpsiangq3it.jpg

They had just been to the shops for some stuff for lunch and to post a few letters. They were out no more than 25mins
and when they returned they saw the fire engines which they saw zooming past while they were at the shops parked
outside their place tackling the blaze. The fridge was taken away by the insurance people and confirmed as the cause, the
main gas pipe and gas meter are in the cupboard above the cooker, which as you can barely see is right next to the fridge
with the cups hanging on it. It could have been much, much worse. The same thing could have easily happened in the middle
of the night, the stairway acted like a chimney, sucking smoke and fire upstairs where there were open windows.
They would have had no way out other than to jump out of the window which at their age and size may well have killed
them instead of the fire, that's of course if they woke up at all.
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: Towering Inferno Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:

So why do people burn down buildings as an "insurance job"?


Generally because they're stupid. They think they'll get wedged cash settlement but they won't - I've refused to offer cash settlement or even market value before, even though to reinstate would have been a larger claim.

Most insurance jobs revolve around stock and business interruption. For example I had £2m stock in here and we have a gross profit of £1m when in reality their books say otherwise (no matching stock purchases and business in decline).

Loss adjusters tend to see through it pretty quickly - but it's difficult to nail on fraud these days even if you suspect it; the FOS sides with the client massively. We have one that's a Manchester rag trade client (can you guess the ethnicity ....) that we've fundamentally proven the stock never existed and the books have been cooked but the FOS overturned our fraud decision and reinstated the policy. Now we're just going round in circles deciding quantum, it's a total joke.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rebuilding costs are not the same as market value. Check your home buildings insurance cover, it'll say the same.

Aside, there are several (non stupid) reasons why commercial properties get burned down.

One is when owners get raped for rates even on empty properties, currently 90% after 6 months in Glasgow. There are some commercial properties here that you literally can't give away at the moment. Rendering them uninhabitable can be the least bad option: you only need to blow the bloody roof off. Nobody injured + no insurance claim = nobody really gives a stuff.

Another is where you have a listed building on a prime spot for development. Things burn, don't they?

Neither of these apply to the instant situation, I'm just mentioning.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Another is where you have a listed building on a prime spot for development. Things burn, don't they?


Law might be different in Scotchland but in Engerland if you have a listed building you'll be required to rebuild it after a fire. So no sticking in a designer boutique or whatever. That's why, for example, my insurance is very expensive because they'd have to pay out for it to be built in the old fashioned way, sticks 'n poo and oak beams. Materials aren't the issue, skilled persons do do the work are.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Law might be different in Scotchland but in Engerland if you have a listed building you'll be required to rebuild it after a fire.

Looks like more of a "meh" up here, particularly about internal gutting.

https://www.historicenvironment.scot/advice-and-support/listing-scheduling-and-designations/listed-buildings/insurance-for-listed-buildings-general-guidance/#reinstatement-obligations
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grr666
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mums refurb came in at 110k give or take. Plus a separate payout for her belongings.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 12:27 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Another is where you have a listed building on a prime spot for development. Things burn, don't they?


Law might be different in Scotchland but in Engerland if you have a listed building you'll be required to rebuild it after a fire. So no sticking in a designer boutique or whatever. That's why, for example, my insurance is very expensive because they'd have to pay out for it to be built in the old fashioned way, sticks 'n poo and oak beams. Materials aren't the issue, skilled persons do do the work are.


HAHAHA

https://www.wigantoday.net/news/bulldozed-homes-no-legal-action-1-928237
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Meanwhile they're still pulling bodies out, up to 17 now.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Chief concern of council: Not admitting liability while trying to sound sincere.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Meanwhile they're still pulling bodies out, up to 17 now.
Still clearing the first flat then?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
grr666 wrote:
M.C wrote:
Meanwhile they're still pulling bodies out, up to 17 now.
Still clearing the first flat then?


https://static.atimes.com/uploads/2015/12/new-1.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 15 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 06:56 - 16 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
What the hell, man? Show some respect for the diversity that is our strength.
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arry
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PostPosted: 07:01 - 16 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Rebuilding costs are not the same as market value. Check your home buildings insurance cover, it'll say the same.


Indeed they are not, but it's amazing how many times a broker will try to tell you otherwise. My missus is currently looking at a disused church for a project - purchase price would be circa £45k I reckon all told but the reinstatement cost would be more in the region of £3m.

On the other end of the scale when I first started in Real Estate a broker came to me with a £1.5m reinstatement cost on a pokey little terraced shop/flat above in that there Londinium W1; I had a play around with a few desktop valuation services and calculated it at £170k. Went back to the broker and said I was more than happy to insure it for nearly 10 times what it would cost to rebuild but maybe he'd like to re-think. Answer back was 'well that's what he's purchased it for'. Great advisory service, penis-head.

Rogerborg wrote:
Aside, there are several (non stupid) reasons why commercial properties get burned down.

One is when owners get raped for rates even on empty properties, currently 90% after 6 months in Glasgow. There are some commercial properties here that you literally can't give away at the moment. Rendering them uninhabitable can be the least bad option: you only need to blow the bloody roof off. Nobody injured + no insurance claim = nobody really gives a stuff.


Thanks, Gordon Brown, thanks a bunch.

Back when that ruling came in I was busy building a real estate product and incorporated Business Rates into the Loss of Rent section as standard; all about innovation, me Dance! .

Rogerborg wrote:
Another is where you have a listed building on a prime spot for development. Things burn, don't they?

Neither of these apply to the instant situation, I'm just mentioning.


Indeed, well, at least a Grade listed property that's owned by a faceless Ltd co with limited liability back to the directors; fold that down sharp.
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Motorhate
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 16 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
It’s been reported that Reynobond (who manufactured the cladding on the building) make three types of panels, one with a flammable plastic core and two with fire-resistant cores. It is thought that contractors chose the cheaper but more combustible version for Grenfell Tower. It would have cost an extra £5,000 to use the fire-resistant panels.

Link: Grenfell Tower: fire-resistant cladding is just £5,000 more expensive[/quote]
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 16 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Motorhate wrote:
It’s been reported that Reynobond (who manufactured the cladding on the building) make three types of panels, one with a flammable plastic core and two with fire-resistant cores. It is thought that contractors chose the cheaper but more combustible version for Grenfell Tower. It would have cost an extra £5,000 to use the fire-resistant panels.

Link: Grenfell Tower: fire-resistant cladding is just £5,000 more expensive


I'd be surprised if the option wasn't given. A rockwool panel just wouldn't have gone up like that. It's less thermally efficient though - so they might not have got that magic u number for their gold star.

Either way the cladding fitted still conforms to approved document B regs, of that I'll be 95% sure. The gap for me will be the management company and the lack of adequate fire risk assessment following the change to the building.
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Motorhate
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 16 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
I'd be surprised if the option wasn't given. A rockwool panel just wouldn't have gone up like that. It's less thermally efficient though - so they might not have got that magic u number for their gold star.

Either way the cladding fitted still conforms to approved document B regs, of that I'll be 95% sure. The gap for me will be the management company and the lack of adequate fire risk assessment following the change to the building.



It's been confirmed that the cheaper, flammable version of the panels was used. Omnis Exteriors has said they were asked to supply Reynobond PE cladding (with the polyurethane core), which is £2 cheaper than the alternative Reynobond FR (with fire resistant core).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/grenfell-tower-fire-resistant-cladding-is-just-5-000-more-expensive-6gjqkg98g
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