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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 14:00 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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I never could tell my left from my right.
You're trying to teach grandma to suck eggs, Borgie.
If you care to recall, I'm one of the few who actually quite liked Kradmelder, despite his controversial opinions. I don't naturally tend toward liberalism, so arguing a diversity point for me is pretty rocky territory, I'm likely to creep back into my comfortable well-fed white enclave when I get bored of talking about poor people. But the feeling that I could only be two steps, a tumble and a broken hip away from being one myself, keeps my nerve endings jangling with the kind of "occasional conscience" that such anxiety brings. I'm as selfish as the next person, and don't really want to have the hassle or expense of owning a full-blown social conscience, or maybe having one is just too much damn hard work.
All I know is that every time I go past that building, I feel a deep ache that I cannot explain, a call from the souls of the people who never had a chance, because circumstances kept pushing them into a place they probably didn't want to be anyway. ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:05 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: | mpd72 wrote: | Flats in there were renting for over £1,500 pcm minimum. I showed the link on Rightmove.
That's market rate for that area. Why on earth are we housing people with no intention of ever working in an area with rents that high? Going by the names on the news, it was hardly like they were born local to the area. The first announced death was an asylum seeker apparently from Syria.
Most full time workers on average income couldn't afford to live there. This is the problem with our benefits system, it benefits the feckless, so they can live in expensive areas and pop out 8 or 9 kids, whilst the tax payers have to live in cheaper areas and struggle to support 2-3 kids, if that. |
You showed an advert, I've seen adverts on my estate for £1300 p/m cos it's a 3 bed in London... it was never ever rented for that amount. Your argument makes no sense, surely if people are on benefits then you want to house them in cheap accommodation, and keep that money in the system as it were? Otherwise it's going into the hands of private landlords.
If they're working then so what, they're probably doing a low paid job you wouldn't even consider, and remaining in the area (talking about London as a whole) where if there was no social housing there wouldn't be grunts doing the service jobs London needs.
To repeat myself for the millionth time, it's not their fault rent prices have exploded in the last ten years, and house prices over the last twenty. I saw a piece on nearby Trellick Tower (sister building to that monstrosity I posted above), about how it was a druggies paradise in the mid-nineties, and cab drivers wouldn't go onto the estate. They're are still unpleasant places to live, Tesco refuse to deliver where I live, and I've had issues with couriers refusing as well.
To begrudge the inhabitants of council estates is frankly retarded, but you'll be glad to know to know most of them are under threat across London (in the name of gentrification/progress), so over the next decade or so you'll see the peasant folk leaving...
...and then you'll have to find someone else to blame |
Ah, so rent in Kensington and Chelsea is really just as cheap as Middlesborough or Manchester. I never realised that.
Bollocks, it's one of the most expensive areas in the country to live. Many middle income earners can't afford it, so why are we housing asylum seekers and immigrants with no intention of working there. on tax payers money? ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 14:53 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: | hellkat wrote: | All I know is that every time I go past that building, I feel a deep ache that I cannot explain, a call from the souls of the people who never had a chance, because circumstances kept pushing them into a place they probably didn't want to be anyway. |
Pickup mpd and take him on a pro bono trip to Grenfell
mpd72 wrote: | Ah, so rent in Kensington and Chelsea is really just as cheap as Middlesborough or Manchester. I never realised that.
Bollocks, it's one of the most expensive areas in the country to live. Many middle income earners can't afford it, so why are we housing asylum seekers and immigrants with no intention of working there. on tax payers money? |
Who said it was? I don't how much it's but based on people I know who live in nicer parts of London (N1 etc.) it won't be anywhere near £1500, I'd be surprised if social rents are much beyond £500 p/m in K&C.
Your logic extends to all of London then, and if/when that happens low earners won't bother commuting in for work. |
Show me a 2 bedroon flat for rent at under £1,500 in Kensington and Chelsea.
The cheapest, which isn't a flat share of a 2 bedroom flat, is £1,517 a month on RightMove.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E61229&maxBedrooms=2&minBedrooms=2&sortType=1&includeLetAgreed=false
When you enter the real world of renting as an adult, out of the teat of mums flat, you're in for a shock fella. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:28 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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hellkat wrote: | talking about poor people. But the feeling that I could only be two steps, a tumble and a broken hip away from being one myself |
Say the word and I'll smother you with a pillow so that you never have to endure Poor. Surprisingly cheap rates, too.
mpd72 wrote: | When you enter the real world of renting as an adult, out of the teat of mums flat, you're in for a shock fella. |
Called it.
M.C wrote: | if there was no social housing there wouldn't be grunts doing the service jobs London needs. |
Subsidised housing is allocated on the basis of worth, rather than need, you say?
If there was no subsidy, there would be no minions, London would grind to a halt, people would flee (like a tumour metastasising), and demand and prices would drop until the situation resolved itself.
It would hurt in the short term, it would be suicidal for the regime of the moment, but it would remove the need for ever spiralling subsidy with no end or limit in sight.
M.C wrote: | To begrudge the inhabitants of council estates is frankly retarded |
Well argued, now I feel much better about it.
M.C wrote: | ...and then you'll have to find someone else to blame |
We'll always have die Juden. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 16:02 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Sod off, if I found a 2b/r property for 1500 notes in K&C I'd not be telling you about it, I'd be ordering the removal van for myself to move there
The operative expression, of course, is "social rents"
ALL social landlords artificially suppress the cost of rentals of their properties.
Its not because they can, its because they have to.
This is not just in London. It happens everywhere in the UK.
Social landlords (particularly housing associations) don't like it either, but they have to do it.
So the "OMG-WTF-£££" price that you are shouting about, or indeed, similar prices given by the media when having a benefits-scrounger freak-out session, may well be an open-market rental price, but its not the price a council ever offers its residents. Those are artificially suppressed because they have to be.
The government (not the tabloid-reading tax-paying public) says so.
Blame George Peabody, damn philanthropists, getting bloody busy back in Victorian days, how very dare they. ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:36 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: | Point of order, "expensive", not nice.
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I would quite definitely describe the areas immediately around Cottesmore Gardens, or Christchurch Street, or Chelsea Square, as "nice".
It may be gentrified, but there still reside similarly "interesting" and real people as anywhere else.
Older people admittedly, but not necessarily outrageously wealthy ones. Surprisingly nice normal middle-class people who have lived there since before it got ridiculously out of price-range for normal people over the last 40-50 years.
Having said that, if I lived there ... and someone like me moved in, I'd be pretty damn pissed off
I'd be worried about them suggesting in snide posh voices, why I didn't move to Onslow Square instead
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/keepingupappearances/images/7/7b/Onslow.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150102192013 ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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- Super Spammer
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:09 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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I dunno.
Because they have social responsibility/protocol/mandate they have to stick to?
Why don't you attend some of the think tanks and seminars and ask them, if you are so bothered?
The Smith Institute have an interesting one at the Labour Party Conference in Brighton later this month.
I'm seriously considering attending, except the commies probably won't let me through their doors without a membership card ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:10 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Christ I am wasting my breath with you. No one in social housing in Grenfell's being charged £1500 p/m, stop conflicting social and private rents. I've explained how moronic it's to believe that because social rents are below market value it's somehow a deficit to the taxpayer. I wonder what the actual figures are for a block like Grenfell (over its life), that includes the 70s/80s/90s when they were cesspits for crime and deprivation.
Furthermore it's the lack of social housing that inflates private rents, particularly at the lower end of the market. You berate a system you don't even understand.
Rogerborg wrote: | Subsidised housing is allocated on the basis of worth, rather than need, you say? |
No, the days of a single working person getting a council flat are well gone, now you need to have 14 children. The people I work with (who live on their own) are older, younger people (and I mean even 30-40s) are typically in house shares/bedsits or still live at home.
When the older generation go there will be a void. All the young(er) people would have already left.
Quote: | If there was no subsidy, there would be no minions, London would grind to a halt, people would flee (like a tumour metastasising), and demand and prices would drop until the situation resolved itself.
It would hurt in the short term, it would be suicidal for the regime of the moment, but it would remove the need for ever spiralling subsidy with no end or limit in sight. |
It depends if you're talking about actual subsidies or the imaginary ones mpd believes in. I suspect it's the latter. |
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chris-red |
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chris-red Have you considered a TDM?
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hellkat |
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sickpup |
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sickpup Old Timer
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:54 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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In a slight effort of returning to the thread objective, I've got an interesting question for the audience.
(well, its interesting to me, but probably not to most other people)
IF you were in a situation where you had to live in social housing, and you were given the opportunity to accept ONE property - but in a tower block - so you had a choice of which floor in a tower like Grenfell, what floor would you choose to live on?
The ground floor, or something above the 5th?
What's the highest you would go?
I would be in two minds.
* I used to be, like, nope, got to stay on the ground floor, cos I want to be able to get to my bike/see my bike so nobody nicks it (pointless, cos they will nick it anyway, if they really want to and you'e not secured it sufficiently).
* But recently (prior to Grenfell) I had started to consider house-swapping with someone who had a flat above 10th floor, because I had taken a fancy to living somewhere with an amazing view, and there would be no way I could ever afford the likes of Ballymore et al.
Since Grenfell, of course, I've kinda gone off the high-rise-living idea, but occasionally that little demon still sits on my shoulder and whispers in my ear. ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:03 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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hellkat wrote: | In a slight effort of returning to the thread objective, I've got an interesting question for the audience.
(well, its interesting to me, but probably not to most other people)
IF you were in a situation where you had to live in social housing, and you were given the opportunity to accept ONE property - but in a tower block - so you had a choice of which floor in a tower like Grenfell, what floor would you choose to live on?
The ground floor, or something above the 5th?
What's the highest you would go?
I would be in two minds.
* I used to be, like, nope, got to stay on the ground floor, cos I want to be able to get to my bike/see my bike so nobody nicks it (pointless, cos they will nick it anyway, if they really want to and you'e not secured it sufficiently).
* But recently (prior to Grenfell) I had started to consider house-swapping with someone who had a flat above 10th floor, because I had taken a fancy to living somewhere with an amazing view, and there would be no way I could ever afford the likes of Ballymore et al.
Since Grenfell, of course, I've kinda gone off the high-rise-living idea, but occasionally that little demon still sits on my shoulder and whispers in my ear. |
What floor did the fire start on? I wouldn't like to live above say 6 floors up, although you're right about the views. I always wonder why people pay to go on the London Eye or the Orbit when you can get a similar view from a block of flats (probably won't pass as a family day out). |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:32 - 21 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Yeah it started on the 4th floor if I remember correctly.
When I lived back in Auckland for a year in the late 1990s, I worked on the 35th floor of a building. It was awesome, except only the partners (law firm) got the outside offices with the view, so as a plebby legal sec, I only got to look out them when I took work into their offices. Thing is, in Auckland, you get a 1000% better view at ground level than you do in most places in London, so I wasn't all that fussed. If I lived in an office with a view like that I'd never do any work
For some reason which I have now forgotten, the whole of the power grid for Central Auckland Business District went out for about 10 days, luckily I wasn't at work when it did, but the thought of having to walk up (or down) 35 floors was daunting, and I realised if there was a fire I would be proper fucked. (They decanted us into offices in an outer suburb where there was power)
I'd probably go up a dozen floors, but not much more.
I used to think I wanted a garden, but nowadays a bunch of pots on a terrace with a decent view would do me just fine.
If the lifts went out, I'd either stay up there, or stay at someone else's house 'til they were fixed ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Falco Traffic Copper
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Ste Not Work Safe
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 09:47 - 22 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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sickpup wrote: |
Thats because you don't think.
Now think for the length of this thread. If rent is made up of the actual costs of housing then it is pretty much the same regardless of where in the country you are. There are fluctuations in building costs due to wages and delivery of materials but the actual costs is within a few percentage points of everywhere else.
Now Kensington and Chelsea you are paying a premium except in social housing so it isn't that social housing is subsidised, it isn't. It just doesn't have a large profit margin placed over the top of it.
I hope that helps explain things for you. |
Nice idea, but in reality that's nonsense.
The actual state owned real estate is worth several times that of one in Middlesborough or Manchester. The state could sell the flat to the private sector and buy 5 or so flats in Middlesborough, housing 5 times more dolescum and refugees.
When we have thousands of empty houses in some areas up North, why are we housing Gimmedats in the most expensive areas in the country, where most middle income earners can't afford to live? ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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skatefreak |
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skatefreak World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 245 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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