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gbrand42
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 18 Jun 2017    Post subject: New bike Reply with quote

I've kicked the old Deauville into touch and signed up to take delivery of one of these in a couple of weeks. 0% PCP so I thought fuck it you only live once. Demonstrator seemed quite sprightly in comparison to the old bike:


https://www.motorrad-bilder.at/slideshows/291/011559/honda-crossrunner-adventure-2015-7.jpg
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owl
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 18 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool, now please refrain from turning into a cunt now like rest of the assholes that ride these
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gbrand42
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 18 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm not a cunt already (which I probably am) it will take more than this to turn me into one now
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owl
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 18 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

well if you now own one it's probably too late anyway Razz
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice.
What's the mileage deal on the Rental plan?
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gbrand42
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpineandy wrote:
Nice.
What's the mileage deal on the Rental plan?


I think you just tell them what you need and they adjust the monthly payments / final payment to suit. Still 0% whatever you need
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Snowdonia Rider
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to zoom in on the pic to see 'Crossrunner'! I thought it was a CB500X Embarassed
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kgm
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mate has the older model. Comfiest bike I've ever ridden, fits me perfectly. Rides well too.
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mtriderrob
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: New bike Reply with quote

Make sure you tell your insurer that it is on a PCP as I've recently heard that a number of insurance companies are refusing to pay out on claims because the bike doesn't belong to you irrespective of the fact that you are down as the registered keeper.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

gbrand42 wrote:
I think you just tell them what you need and they adjust the monthly payments / final payment to suit. Still 0% whatever you need

You really need to check that rather than just 'think' it.
If you get it wrong then it could be expensive...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: New bike Reply with quote

mtriderrob wrote:
I've recently heard that a number of insurance companies are refusing to pay out on claims because the bike doesn't belong to you

Heard where, and what number?

It does seem plausible - it's not your asset - but it would bring the whole PCP gravy train to a grinding halt.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 22:47 - 19 Jun 2017; edited 1 time in total
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FirebladeRuss
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: New bike Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
mtriderrob wrote:
I've recently heard that a number of insurance companies are refusing to pay out on claims because the bike doesn't belong to you

Heard where, and what number?

It does seem plausible - it's [i]not[i] your asset - but it would bring the whole PCP gravy train to a grinding halt.


Would also would affect a scarily huge number of cars on the road......I can't see it being fact personally, well, certainly not across the board.
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FirebladeRuss
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, makes for some interesting reading on this matter.

Definitely seems like a grey area....

Poses questions on house insurance if you have a mortgage as well if that is the case, as you have to answer the question of "are you a home owner" - owner as in you live in it, yes. Owner as in you've cleared teh mortgage....unlikley. Confused
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's plausible, but it's an extraordinary claim that requires backing up.

I've never read a PCP contract so don't know whether you typically own it and the finance company has an interest, or they own it until you've paid it off. Either way, you can still have an insurable interest in it.

There's this thread from a couple of years back that confirms that Admiral for one do (or did) cover PCP, despite the typical skip licking from a front line phone monkey.

So Billy Bullshit called until [citation provided]
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FirebladeRuss
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It's plausible, but it's an extraordinary claim that requires backing up.

I've never read a PCP contract so don't know whether you typically own it and the finance company has an interest, or they own it until you've paid it off. Either way, you can still have an insurable interest in it.

There's this thread from a couple of years back that confirms that Admiral for one do (or did) cover PCP, despite the typical skip licking from a front line phone monkey.

So Billy Bullshit called until [citation provided]


That's the thing. The insurance company would need to pay out the value of the vehicle irrespective of who technically is the owner. the owner would get the insurance payout - in PCP terms, the finance company. As you'd expect.

Just checked my policy docs for the car, and nowhere on there does it make any reference to the financial owner of the car. Refers to me and where I live as the insurer of the vehicle. Details the car and value, where it's kept, how it will be used etc. Nothing on the policy schedule, certificate that says "Owner of the car" to be me.
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Last edited by FirebladeRuss on 23:17 - 19 Jun 2017; edited 1 time in total
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mtriderrob
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: new bike Reply with quote

A bloke I know who's mate is a plod got a Beemer on PCP, bike was written off and insurance refused to cough because he wasn't the owner.
Apparently it's different to good old hire purchase where the documentation fee was usually included in the last payment and ownership is then transferred to the keeper as a result of all payments being made. Seemingly the expectation is that hardly anyone pays the final balance price and chops the bike in for a new one - which I guess is the real reason for taking out PCP in the first place - hence it's never actually, or likely to be owned by the registered keeper.
Anyway, plods 2 other mates subsequently check with their insurers and find out that they wouldn't be covered and ultimately end up buying insurance from the dealership they got the bikes from - which happened to be the cheapest available insurance, they obviously suffered a cancellation fee.
Maybe it's just a scam to get you to buy their own insurance so they can fleece some more money out of you, but at the end of the day is it worth possibly having no insurance cover if anything happens, all for the sake of a phone call to your insurance company?
It's only what I've heard, but IMHO from a small group of bikers that's too big a number to ignore.
Personally I wouldn't touch PCP with a barge pole because I like owning what I ride/drive, but that doesn't make it a bad thing for many people.
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FirebladeRuss
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 19 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of curiosity, I revisited GoCOmpare from when I was looking at new MT10 a few weeks ago

Changed the owner option to "leased - private", as there's nothing else resembling PCP.

Made no difference to the quotes returned. Same prices as before.

Interesting (and importantly, fairly recent) post here:

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/411953-pcp-car-insuranceownership-issue-heres-an-answer-for-those-not-sure/

Also similar conclusion here:
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/forums/topic/pcp-who-is-the-registered-owner/
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: new bike Reply with quote

Mates-of-a-mate-of-a-mate? What's that, 4th hand?

MCN were fretting about it recently: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/insurance/2017/march/motorbike-insurance-pcp/

But given that it's MCN, I'd assume by default that they're full of it. They found a professional insurance broker in $CURRENT_YEAR who didn't know what PCP is? Do me a favour.

However, I do believe that this is all plausible and have been saying so for years. Buried deep in BMW's PCP finance site is the statement that "they" remain the owner of the vehicle until it's all paid up.

The usual advice applies. Read and understand anything that you're signing, and answer all insurance questions as honestly as you can.

If you're not the owner, don't say that you're the owner.

If you're not asked, pas de problème, or it shouldn't be once your complaint gets to the FOS.

The thought occurs, how would I show to an insurer that I'm the owner of any of my vehicles?

I have various hand-written scraps of paper, which I could have written myself. For one car and one bike, I have actual dealer contracts for the purchase, but how does that show that I'm still the owner?
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a clear 'Insurable interest' on a bike on any type of finance deal.
I can't imagine there ever being a problem but you may need to make that clear when you first insure it.
As for mortgages, again a clear 'insurable interest', so again there shouldn't be any issue.

If you work for one guy, you could insure his life (I THINK, without him knowing it) as his death would cause you financial problems.
There's a clear insurable interest (although you'd have to pay the premium and the insurable interest would disappear the moment you left his employ...).
You can't insure against a celebrity death unless you have a direct insurable interest, but you can put a bet on it...
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FirebladeRuss
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

IN the interests of trying to get as much factual stuff as possible on this, as it's very vague online - I've just spoken to Bennetts and they have advised that no, it's not a lease as such and with a PCP you are classed as the owner and keeper.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirebladeRuss wrote:
it's not a lease as such and with a PCP you are classed as the owner and keeper.

It's nice of them to "class" you as such, but BMW finance disagree: "We remain the owner of the vehicle during the [PCP] agreement "

This insurance mongery is exactly what makes me suspect that OP may be on to something. The facts appears to be that you don't own a PCP'd BMW until you've paid off every penny, and the actual policy underwriter isn't going to give a stuff what some sales monkey thinks.
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FirebladeRuss
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
FirebladeRuss wrote:
it's not a lease as such and with a PCP you are classed as the owner and keeper.

It's nice of them to "class" you as such, but BMW finance disagree: "We remain the owner of the vehicle during the [PCP] agreement "

This insurance mongery is exactly what makes me suspect that OP may be on to something. The facts appears to be that you don't own a PCP'd BMW until you've paid off every penny, and the actual policy underwriter isn't going to give a stuff what some sales monkey thinks.


That's what I thought to, and hence I looked into it and made some enquiries.

The basics still apply though:

- Keeper of the vehicle - person insuring it, as appears on V5C
- Vehicle kept at the address shown on the V5C, or whever the person insuring it says it is kept
- Insurance is in the name of the person insuring it
- Value of the vehicle - same regardless of who "owns" it as long as it's declared that value at the time of insuring (and hence the GAP insurances exist to cover when the insurance say the market value is less than what the actual value on finance is)
- Person insuring it is who has to declare their points and disqualifications - again, who "owns" it is irrelevant for this element of the insurance
- With a PCP the "owner" (BMW or whoever) don't maintain it or tax it, the registered Keeper (the person insuring it) does. The financer is not responsible at all for ensuring the car is safe and roadworthy.

The only time the legal "owner" being the dealer in question may come into play was if the vehicle got written off, and the Finance owner would then receive the payment - but even if the insured ended up getting the payout, they'd still have to clear the finance anyway?

Without a doubt, it's worth checking with whoever is insuring if it makes a difference - but I can' see as how it would in most cases. As you say, I'm sure there are one of 2 places that might try find some loophole, but (not that I'm legally trained in any way) I can't see how it'd stand up if it ended up in court.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirebladeRuss wrote:
The basics still apply though:
...
- Insurance is in the name of the person insuring it
...
The only time the legal "owner" being the dealer in question may come into play was if the vehicle got written off, and the Finance owner would then receive the payment - but even if the insured ended up getting the payout, they'd still have to clear the finance anyway?


Just make sure that the Insurance Company is aware that the bike is on a finance deal.
They may (should) ask who the finance is with and make a note on their system that the finance company is an interested party in the event of a claim.
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mtriderrob
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: new bike Reply with quote

Insurance is a risky business, but a business none the less. They don't make money by giving it away and will inevitably try and wriggle out of paying. I've not heard of any issues in the car world (or any where else for that matter) and this may be manufacturer specific, but it doesn't hurt to check.
If 1 company does it now, who's to say that all the others wont follow suit, conversely they may decide to toe the line and it wouldn't be a problem again.
3 aquaintances of mine have been affected 1 seriously, if people don't want to believe me that is their choice, it will never happen to me and I would like to think that it wont happen to anyone else. If my post stops 1 more person being shafted because they checked, then I consider that to be 10 minutes of my time well spent.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 20 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: new bike Reply with quote

mtriderrob wrote:
If 1 company does it now

Does it?


mtriderrob wrote:
3 aquaintances of mine have been affected

That's not what you said above. You said a-bloke-you-know's mate. That's third hand.

And his 2 mates. Fourth hand.

It's an interesting point and worth checking - no need to Tef it up.
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