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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exile71 wrote:
Firstly im not in court so wont go to the bother of providing actual evidence.

Then I won't go to the bother of believing you.

Exile71 wrote:
I read it, doesnt matter to me if you didnt.

It does matter, or else you wouldn't have mentioned it.

Now you're getting salty because the validity of your decision to ride stealthy is being challenged.

I think honesty is important in these discussions.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always worn black, and jeans, except for a brief period of dressing as a power ranger on my FZR EXUP (and look how that ended Laughing ). Had a few spills over the years, but I don't believe any of them wouldn't have happened if I'd dressed up like a Christmas tree. Challenge my validity, Borg Laughing
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bamt
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

madcow87 wrote:
I'm only learning for now, but I know i'll wear hi-viz on the mile and half ride to work, especially in winter and getting to work at 5:45 in the morning.


Bear in mind that in the dark fluorescent colours do nothing, and some can be quite hard to see under yellow/orange street lighting - to the extent that a plain black jacket can stand out more!

What does make a difference is retroflectives in headlights, so good banding (and ideally on your arms too - i.e. a long sleeve jacket rather than vest). But that is only visible to a car driver who is looking your way /and has lights pointing at you/ so in the dark, to a driver pulling out of a side street or ahead or alongside you in another lane, your hi viz may as well not be there.

Edit to add: I'm not saying hi viz is a bad choice, just be aware of the limitations and choose effectively - like long sleeve rather than vest.
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madcow87
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
Bear in mind that in the dark fluorescent colours do nothing, and some can be quite hard to see under yellow/orange street lighting - to the extent that a plain black jacket can stand out more!

What does make a difference is retroflectives in headlights, so good banding (and ideally on your arms too - i.e. a long sleeve jacket rather than vest). But that is only visible to a car driver who is looking your way /and has lights pointing at you/ so in the dark, to a driver pulling out of a side street or ahead or alongside you in another lane, your hi viz may as well not be there.

Edit to add: I'm not saying hi viz is a bad choice, just be aware of the limitations and choose effectively - like long sleeve rather than vest.


Thanks very much for the advice! Yeah I do have a longsleeve waterproof overcoat I've used for a few years on my bicycle during winter so with a bit of luck it'll have no problem covering my riding jacket whatever that may be.

I appreciate what you're saying regards the viz in the dark too, as I read your reply it started dawning on me Laughing
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recman
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exile71 wrote:
Well..... Firstly im not in court.


Think again.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pompousporcupine wrote:
show me statistics that hi-viz has actually ever ever ever prevented someone being deaded.

I can tell you that when I drive I certainly notice riders in bright coloured gear more than I notice riders in dark coloured gear...
Especially on overcast days.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exile71 wrote:
More lives would probably be saved if elderly people on medication didnt decide to drive when they shouldnt.

In my experience, I've had more close calls with younger drivers who think driving a car is less important than checking their facebook/hair/make-up or having a laugh with their passengers...
Although that's a close run thing with mums being distracted by their own kids...
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

choogh wrote:
...like loathing a match stick..😂😂😂😂


Stupid, little, wooden c*nts.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
choogh wrote:
...like loathing a match stick..😂😂😂😂


Stupid, little, wooden c*nts.


They are just sticks, but get all self-important because they have a bright coloured hat on, which just makes them more likely to get all inflamed at the slightest provocation.
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davethekwak
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:


They are just sticks, but get all self-important because they have a bright coloured hat on, which just makes them more likely to get all inflamed at the slightest provocation.


Little stick syndrome
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pompousporcupine wrote:
turningCircle wrote:
I agree that the 'POLITE' vests shouldn't be allowed as they are misleading but I don't have problem with hi-vis. I'd rather be an living wanker than a dead dude.


show me statistics that hi-viz has actually ever ever ever prevented someone being deaded

Hi-Viz can do one. It makes you look like a bin man..*

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JYXZtlZaHYg/TfCjHxrGSiI/AAAAAAAACDc/Xd_MvW5p6SE/s1600/bin%2Bmen%2Bcllr%2Bdobson%2Bpic%2Bjune%2B2011.JPG


*bin men are lovely people.

I think it's a good idea if you're cycling on an overcast day, that way car drivers will have seen you when they still decide to pull out. With motorbikes I'm not so sure, if they don't notice your lights (assuming DRL) they aren't going to notice a hi-viz.

I do wear one at night mainly so if someone does kill me, they won't be able to say I was invisible.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been riding for 31 years, I've never worn overtly hi-viz clothing and I've only been SMIDSY'd once (after 29 years) by a pissed pedestrian who thought it was a great idea to run across a dual-carriageway at night.

And since he vaulted the central reservation and pretty much landed on me, I'm not sure that a hi-viz would've helped much.

So as far as I'm concerned, the hi-viz brigade can dry bum themselves with a cactus. And much good might it do them!
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
With motorbikes I'm not so sure, if they don't notice your lights (assuming DRL) then you're probably riding a YBR


FTFY! Thumbs Up

The round headlight on the older YBRs is poor, to say the least!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
if they don't notice your lights (assuming DRL) they aren't going to notice a hi-viz.

Right, because a big bright block isn't any more visible than a small bright block. Of course.

It's fine to just say that you don't wear it because you don't want to look like a tw​at. Trying to justify your decision by arguing that it's pointless for everyone, always, is a bizarre non sequitur.
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SDFarsight
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

You could, if you were absolutely determined to invent reasons to justify wearing Stealth Ranger Black.


I've inadvertantly* chosen the full Stealth Ranger Black look, so I'm considering getting a high-vis especialy when riding at night. My bike isn't the lowest out there but that extra visible torso hight could still make a difference. And that's a normal high-vis, not a POLITE one Wink

*Ok it wasn't a complete accident, it looks awesome IMO.

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Love how my advert panel at the bottom of the screen is now filled with Polite wanker-vests


We've become part of the problem! :O
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
M.C wrote:
if they don't notice your lights (assuming DRL) they aren't going to notice a hi-viz.

Right, because a big bright block isn't any more visible than a small bright block. Of course.

It's fine to just say that you don't wear it because you don't want to look like a tw​at. Trying to justify your decision by arguing that it's pointless for everyone, always, is a bizarre non sequitur.

A big un-illuminated block that blends in surprisingly well. People err... forget it's mainly at night when an illuminated hi viz makes a difference:
https://l7.alamy.com/zooms/fed8cb81e14d42bf9b53678ecbaec8d8/event-stewards-in-yellow-jacket-green-hi-vis-high-visibility-jackets-haamwg.jpg

Fizzoid makes a fair point about the strength of your lights being a factor, I noticed a difference when switching to a brighter bulb, but then you don't want to be a tw@ who rides around with full beams on all the time.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear, my contempt, distain and, yes, hatred, is not for those wearing hi-viz. I consider hi-viz a useful tool in making sure I'm visible, along with lights being on all the time and weaving behind the snoring driver so that my headlight flashes in their mirror rather than being constant.

My ire is kept for those wankers (yes, they do, constantly, because their lack of any sartorial appearence and/or any sense of style means they'll never get near any other persons genitalia) who insist on trying to imitate the police. Those polite signs on hi-viz were funny back in th 90s when we were wearing them on protests with the pig noses, but quite frankly these days it just looks embarrassing.

Remember kids, "But it'll make me look like a wanker, mum."
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
A big un-illuminated block that blends in surprisingly well. People err... forget it's mainly at night when an illuminated hi viz makes a difference:


No. It makes a difference during the day as well, whether in town or in the country..
One of these guys is more noticeable than the other two.

https://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/large/scorpion-group.jpg?378220

As the Borg says, it's everyones own choice if they want to wear it or not but it does make a difference and suggesting it doesn't is just wrong.
It may only be a minor difference but even if it's less than a 1% difference then it's still a difference and a slightly lower chance of having an incident.

The guy that thinks the road is clear so he only takes a very quick glance is more likely to notice a hi-vis colour or a bright colour than he will a dark colour.
As for riding with lights on, on a bright day it's difficult to see if SOME bikes have their lights on unless you're looking from directly in front of them.
So a slight bend in the road and the lights make little difference to anyone.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

That picture shows why yellow is a bit of a rubbish colour once you are outside the city. It can be easier to see black against lush undergrowth or hedges than yellow.

For riding outside town I think bright red or bright blue are generally good colours as little that is natural is that colour, so you'll not be camouflaged against it. Around town, pink is probably the best hi-viz colour as it is bright and relatively unusual so stands out more amongst every man and their dog (sometimes quite literally) wearing yellow/green.
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to wear hi viz to make yourself more noticeable, I read somewhere a while ago (can't remember exactly when or where so can't provide linky) that pink hi viz stood out the most.

If I remember correctly, the reasoning was in part due to yellow/green ones can blend in with surrounding countryside. Whereas there aren't many pink trees, hedges or hills.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Mr. Green
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stonesie
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a couple of vizi panels in my jacket but no way would I wear the vest.

This thread reminded me of this.

https://i.imgur.com/S8fAWHP.jpg
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave70 wrote:
If you want to wear hi viz to make yourself more noticeable, I read somewhere a while ago (can't remember exactly when or where so can't provide linky) that pink hi viz stood out the most.

If I remember correctly, the reasoning was in part due to yellow/green ones can blend in with surrounding countryside. Whereas there aren't many pink trees, hedges or hills.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Mr. Green


Which means no one who wears hi-viz is really that serious about increasing their chances of being seen, as I can't remember ever seeing a biker wearing a pink one.
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FretGrinder
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even rogerborg is doing it now

https://s15.postimg.org/secdgnehn/rogerpolite.jpg

Shame on you!
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpineandy wrote:
M.C wrote:
A big un-illuminated block that blends in surprisingly well. People err... forget it's mainly at night when an illuminated hi viz makes a difference:


No. It makes a difference during the day as well, whether in town or in the country..
One of these guys is more noticeable than the other two.

https://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/large/scorpion-group.jpg?378220

As the Borg says, it's everyones own choice if they want to wear it or not but it does make a difference and suggesting it doesn't is just wrong.

My experience's my experience. I find it interesting someone who believes in hi viz and smidsy weaves doesn't believe in noisy exhausts or using the horn, which are in my experience a lot more effective in drawing someones attention (isn't that what the hi viz and weaving around's meant to do?).
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 22 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Which means no one who wears hi-viz is really that serious about increasing their chances of being seen, as I can't remember ever seeing a biker wearing a pink one.


I have but, they were female.
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