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SophR so good |
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SophR so good Trackday Trickster
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 20:37 - 22 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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Worn 2nd gear, new boots which could mean not shifting the gears properly (firmly enough)?
False neutral = you up/down shift and you hit neutral. Can happen between any gear (2-N-3, 3-N-4, 4-N-5, 5-N-6). What you have is not false neutral, as the box jumps into the actual neutral. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
Last edited by RhynoCZ on 20:41 - 22 Jun 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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SophR so good |
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SophR so good Trackday Trickster
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 20:41 - 22 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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So, your 2nd gear is worn. Gearbox out, investigate. As simple as that.
There's not much, nothing virtually, that you could see or do from the outside.
As you checked you shift the 2nd gear properly, how's the gear shifter linkage? If it's not tight, then it would be the same as not shifting the gears properly. As the 2nd gear tends to be the most worn gear on most of all motorcycles, it's easier for the 2nd gear to slip than the other gears in the box. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 20:59 - 22 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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Being 1991, the 2nd gear, you may either skip the 2nd gear when riding, rebuild the gearbox OR swap the engine. There are, or atleast used to be the last time I checked, a plenty of ER/GPZ500 engines around.
There: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=GPZ+500&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XGPZ+500+engine.TRS0&_nkw=GPZ+500+engine&_sacat=0
EDIT: I do realise, that buying a used engine is a lottery. If you want to be 100% sure, just rebuild the gearbox of your current engine. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:25 - 22 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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OP, 3 seconds on google: https://gpz-500.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=870
- Jumps off the 2nd gear: ✓
- The rest of the gears work: ✓
- 1 gen. GPZ 500: ✓
Quote: | john says: The 1st and 2nd gen gear trains are identical, all straight cut gears.
The only difference between the 2 is the type of bush used.On the 1st gen it's a phosphor bronze type...this bush wears and allows the gear to "wobble" on the shaft, this in turn allows the gear to disengage on overrun. On the 2nd gen, the bush was replaced with one made of hardened steel (EN grade) which doesn't wear and counters the 1st gen problem.
Here is a 2nd gen gear train I installed in the JPS when my 1st gen transmission exploded..(long and bum clenching story, for another time, ) |
TL; DR: Replace the engine for a newer one or rebuild the gearbox. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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SophR so good |
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SophR so good Trackday Trickster
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redeem ouzzer |
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redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:54 - 22 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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If I were you, I'd replace the engine with a newer one (avoid the 1st. gen engines, obviously). Complicated this might sound, it's pretty straight forward. Easier than rebuilding the gearbox, as for that you've got take the engine appart first to split the crank case.
If we use the Haynes ''spanner'' difficulty rating:
Engine swap would be 1/2 of a spanner
Gearbox rebuild would be full 5 spanners
IF you replace the engine, do the oil + filter and check the valve clearances. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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SophR so good |
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SophR so good Trackday Trickster
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:07 - 22 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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Reading around, they say the worn bush lets the 2nd gear wobble. Would you like to ride such motorcycle?
Also, the engine being the same money as the bike, well welcome to very early 90's bikes owners club.
EDIT: Be glad you ride a GPZ 500 and there are a lot of spare engines laying around. Others don't have this much of luck and actually have to rebuild their gearboxes. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
Last edited by RhynoCZ on 22:13 - 22 Jun 2017; edited 3 times in total |
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Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
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SophR so good |
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SophR so good Trackday Trickster
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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SophR so good |
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SophR so good Trackday Trickster
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Chris45 |
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Chris45 Nitrous Nuisance
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Chris45 Nitrous Nuisance
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Shinigami World Chat Champion
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:13 - 23 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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SophR so good wrote: | Please make Nobby wear a polite vest on my memorial ride.
But yeh extra careful/no 2nd gear if it's not just a loose clutch cable/tight chain/something else that won't explode until it can be fixed! |
As it only jumps into the neutral, then I'd say it is quite safe, if you know when it's gonna happen, but I just wouldn't. There is also a chance the gearbox will get worse and may even seize. The issue with that is, that you can't just disengage the clutch to save the day, when a gearbox seizes.
Just for you, so you understand, it will go probably like this: The gearbox starts to make noise, then you hear a big clunk sound and the rear wheel gets instantly blocked and there's nothing you can do about it. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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Chris45 |
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Chris45 Nitrous Nuisance
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Posted: 15:41 - 23 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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Quote: | As it only jumps into the neutral, then I'd say it is quite safe, if you know when it's gonna happen, but I just wouldn't. There is also a chance the gearbox will get worse and may even seize. The issue with that is, that you can't just disengage the clutch to save the day, when a gearbox seizes. Thumbs Down
Just for you, so you understand, it will go probably like this: The gearbox starts to make noise, then you hear a big clunk sound and the rear wheel gets instantly blocked and there's nothing you can do about it. |
Agreed, however the 'box is probably jumping into a false neutral as the guy says.. and that is a really scary place to be when riding the machine because the 'box could find that second gear at speed...
Only saying this because as mentioned, the CB250N started doing exactly that and it was an experience I don't care to repeat!
Your final para could read for his gravestone. Honestly hope that doesn't happen though ____________________ Honda CG125>Suzuki GT185>Honda CB 250N>Suzuki GSX400>Honda CX500B>Kawasaki GPZ305> Kawasaki GPZ550>Kawasaki GPZ500S+BMW 650GS |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:02 - 23 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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Read the thread again, Chris. It's not jumping into false neutral, it slips from the 2nd gear into the actual neutral on overrun. False neutral would be between the 2nd and 3rd, 3rd and 4th, 4th and 5th, 5th and 6th gear.
Either way, I wouldn't ride such motorcycle. Definitely not through a city, where you have to make full stop quite frequently and go over the 2nd gear. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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SophR so good |
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SophR so good Trackday Trickster
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Posted: 17:17 - 23 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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As an aside it doesn't seem to falling into true neutral, because you then can't easily put it back into 2nd (godawful grinding sound) where as if you drop it manually into neutral then back up it sounds fine. It is rather terrifying to suddenly be freewheeling downhill round a corner, skipping it worked this morning though. Shall have to see what we can do/afford going forward. ____________________ You win again, gravity! - Zap Brannigan, BCF BBQ 2016 |
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Chris45 |
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Chris45 Nitrous Nuisance
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 305 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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