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| Stick or Flip? |
| Flip to Nikon |
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18% |
[ 2 ] |
| Stick with Canon |
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36% |
[ 4 ] |
| Shake it like a polaroid picture ... |
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45% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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| Author |
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| Rogue_Shadow |
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Rogue_Shadow
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 Posted: 16:49 - 26 Jun 2017  Post subject: DSLR Upgrade - Change of Allegiance Time? (Canon / Nikon) |
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Hi Almighty BCF,
So off the back of some advice on here a few years ago, I got myself a Canon 400d to start digital photography.
Unfortunately an increased work load meant I didn't always have a lot of time for photography, yet whenever I picked up my 400d it never let me down & delivered roughly the expected result.
Recently I've been using the camera much more & it's age and limitations are starting to become more apparent.
What didn't help is taking a photography course with a friend, who has just picked up a new DSLR but has no idea how to use it.
My poor D400 looked like a museum piece & although I understood all the techniques and theory of the lessons, I really fought with my D400 to get the same results during practical sessions.
So knowing what modern DSLR can do, I started looking at possible upgrades & having a good experience so far, looked for Canon.
D550, D600, D650 ...
I was pretty much set to monitor ebay for a decent 650d, When I thought, lets see what happens if I type 650d vs Nikon.
To me, the Nikon range seems to offer a higher specification for the same price as the Canon equivalent. The reviews seems to support this too 
As I'm not tied to Canon with only 2 additional lens, should I considering a change to Nikon to get a better quality DSLR?
Would be interested to gauge peoples opinions.
Cheers |
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| chris-red |
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chris-red
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1198
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Rogue_Shadow
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| Posted: 21:59 - 26 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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The newer 70d & 7d are out of my price range, my thinking is Canon have been using the Same APS-C senor for the 550d,60d & the original 7d. So the sensor in the 650d is exactly the same, without paying XXd or Xd prices.
I was just curious to see if anyone moved from Canon to Nikon.
Thought Id ask now before adding more to my Canon kit.
Thanks for the replies so far  |
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Islander
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| Posted: 22:54 - 26 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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You're used to the Canon control layout and ergonomics, you'll have to learn it all over again with Nikon. That's the biggest drawback of a change that I can think of.
There are some good secondhand bargains to be had - the original 7D is a superb camera (slightly biased here as I have one  ). If you want something a bit cheaper then how about a 40D? It'll be a decent step up from the 400D and very affordable. |
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Dr. DaveJPS
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linuxyeti
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| Posted: 10:07 - 27 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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To some degree it's going to depend on what accessories you have that fit your canon, particularly, any expensive lenses.
I was in a similar position to you about 18 months ago, but having read round at the time, it appears Nikon's had improved more than canon had where it came to the sensors, it kind of felt like Canon had rested on their laurels a little. I haven't felt the need to look again since, but, that was the main reason I chose to go with Nikon, and sell my Canon gear.
Either way, you're likely to end up with a step change in quality over you old camera, with either a new Canon or Nikon.
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 12:56 - 28 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogue_Shadow wrote: | The newer 70d & 7d are out of my price range, my thinking is Canon have been using the Same APS-C senor for the 550d,60d & the original 7d. So the sensor in the 650d is exactly the same, without paying XXd or Xd prices.
I was just curious to see if anyone moved from Canon to Nikon.
Thought Id ask now before adding more to my Canon kit.
Thanks for the replies so far |
Sensor Schemensor, you pay the big bucks for the AF system IMO.
Personally I can't get on with the xxxD series because of the lack of controls. With my 50D I can control aperture, shutter speed and focus point selection with 2 fingers in seconds. No need to fuck about with a touch screen or remove your eye from the view finder.
I'm not saying they are bad cameras, they are much smaller and lighter and easier to carry about I also love the fold out screen of the 650/700D (can't remember when that was introduced.)
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything. |
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linuxyeti
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Rogue_Shadow
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| Posted: 15:05 - 28 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies
Correct, I am sticking with a crop sensor, I don't envision myself moving into a full frame anytime soon/ at all.
Whilst I appreciate no single feature alone dictates a good camera/image quality.
I agree with Kickstart, in the age range I am looking at, Canon don't seem as competitive or to the same spec.
For example a decent 650d are selling for £260+
Whereas a Nikon 3300 (no touch screen stuff) for just over £300 new.
With the latter scoring better imagining results with a 24mp senor.
It just seems Nikon ramped up the spec while Canon just ramped up the price.
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 11:28 - 30 Jun 2017 Post subject: Re: DSLR Upgrade - Change of Allegiance Time? (Canon / Nikon |
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| Rogue_Shadow wrote: | Recently I've been using the camera much more & it's age and limitations are starting to become more apparent. |
REALLY!? A ten year old Digital SLR, is holding back your photography for lack of... well, WHAT, exactly?
I have to confess to a certain degree of disillusionment with DSLR photography, having captulated to get one five years ago, when last in a line of digi-compacts died and that sector of the market was squeezed between camera phones and cheaper entry level DSLR's. The initial enthusiasm for DSLR photography that saw me stretching to buy a new lens each year until I had the same sort of lens coverage as I have for film SLR's HAS sort of worn of rather... and the tally that suggests that lot has cost me more in the last five years than I ever spent in the forty before, on film, processing and cameras, sort of makes me a little aggrieved at the suggestion that "Shoot Digital, its free" its far from it!
However, point is, I still shoot film. And some of my film cameras make ME look a spring chicken, so if you think a ten year old DSLR is a bit dated, you are looking through a very slim letter box!
Meanwhile; I have over half a centry's worth of old film cameras, from my Gradad's Voiglander TLR he bought to take his wedding photo's on, in 1946ish, through my Gt Uncles rather lovely Ziess Ikonta 120 folder, that are completely manual cameras, with incredibly limited range of shutter speeds, fixed lenses and scale focus, through to my Olympus OM4 SLR, with interchangeable, bayonet mount zoom-lenses and automatic TTL exposure control; A-N-D the cameras are the LAST thing in the list that limits any-ones ability to take photos.. it really does.
It's a age old argument; but you take photo's by looking THROUGH a camera, and putting it infront of interesting stuff to take a photo of; not looking AT the camera prodding buttons.
For all the easements that have been packed into cameras in the last fifty years; all of it really, REALLY is of very very limited use to taking better photo's, and lack-of that electrickery is almost the last thing hampering your efforts, it really is.
Tilt & Twist pre-view screens? Wi-fi down-loadability? Really! Exactly how will this sort of stuff help you get pictures you couldn't without it?
Better Photographers take Better Photo's not newer, more expensive or more feature packed cameras.
As a Nikon user, I am minded to agree that Nikon have come on in leaps the last ten years; I have never got on with Cannon since their manual focus offering that rivaled the Olly OM's, and absolutely hated their early Auto-Focus offerings in the 90's... they have significantly put so much more attention on the camera, it seems users are almost obliged to spend more time looking at than through; Nikon, even in the early AF film era, to my mind always felt more intuitive to use, and knob rather than menu and button driven, rather like my 1973 all metal, all clockwork Sigma SLR! They did start a Mega-Pixie race when they started ramping sensor resolutions over 20-Mpix and chasing the low-light sensitivity Canon seemed to be resting on their laurels over.
Seems they took a few lessons from Canon Marketing men, who pushed AF to market in the film era, chasing entry level cheapness to get the market presence they have enjoyed for the last twenty years... and Canon are now playing catch-up...
But whether that is a good enough reason to upgrade, let alone brand switch, remains mutable.
Back to top; your camera is only 'old' in the scales of the DSLR time line. I still shoot film, with cameras that make that look a spring chicken! The 'lack' of technology doesn't hold back very much photography very much at all! My lack of imagination, lack of diligence and lack of 'skill' do!
I have taken some fantastic shots with a little bit of know-how, using white t-shirts as a fill-in reflector; or a little compact on self timer propped on a jacket instead of a tripod, and captured some fantastic 'candids' poking a compact round a corner and clicking 'blind'!
I have taken hundreds of very bland, completely boring and utterly meaningless pictures with the SLR's, deliberating over settings, and getting all pretentious to 'do photography'.
It ISN'T in the camera or whats not in the camera, it really isn't...
Get past that marketing hype of bigger better faster more, must have, worth every penny; look through, not at....
And do you REALLY need a newer camera to do anything you cant now? Will it Really do it for you? OR will you just have more techo, you aren't getting the best you could from?
End of the day, its your money your call; B-U-T... very easy t get sucked into the techo-race, and spend a heck of a lot or money, to get the 'must have' equipment, that does bog all to help you take any more or any better photos.
| Rogue_Shadow wrote: | What didn't help is taking a photography course with a friend, who has just picked up a new DSLR but has no idea how to use it. |
Photo-course aught to have done more to help you get the most out of the kit you got, not convince you you need 'better' kit...
I'd start there; perhaps it was the right camera and the wrong course, not the other way about.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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chris-red
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| Posted: 12:27 - 30 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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| linuxyeti wrote: | | chris-red wrote: |
Sensor Schemensor, you pay the big bucks for the AF system IMO.
Personally I can't get on with the xxxD series because of the lack of controls. With my 50D I can control aperture, shutter speed and focus point selection with 2 fingers in seconds. No need to fuck about with a touch screen or remove your eye from the view finder.
I'm not saying they are bad cameras, they are much smaller and lighter and easier to carry about I also love the fold out screen of the 650/700D (can't remember when that was introduced.) |
What?? Image quality is based entirely around lens & sensor, and has bugger all to do with AF .. |
It has LOADS to do with it if you are shooting anything moving...
I didn't say anything about image quality I was explaining why the xxD and the xD cost more despite having the same sensor. There are other reasons, build quality, weather proof, brust etc. etc.
I'd much rather have a couple of generations old xxD than a Current xxxD.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything. |
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linuxyeti
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| Posted: 12:36 - 30 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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| Posted: 12:41 - 30 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogue_Shadow wrote: | Thanks for the replies
Correct, I am sticking with a crop sensor, I don't envision myself moving into a full frame anytime soon/ at all.
Whilst I appreciate no single feature alone dictates a good camera/image quality.
I agree with Kickstart, in the age range I am looking at, Canon don't seem as competitive or to the same spec.
For example a decent 650d are selling for £260+
Whereas a Nikon 3300 (no touch screen stuff) for just over £300 new.
With the latter scoring better imagining results with a 24mp senor.
It just seems Nikon ramped up the spec while Canon just ramped up the price.
|
Mega Pixels do not equal quality, if you think that they do buy that Nokia phone that had a 40 MP camera.
For me from a sensor I'd take lower noise at high iso over high MP any day. My 20D which is a relic now has I think a 10mp sensor. I've never felt it held anything back. 10MP is easily enough to get A3 prints I would have thought.
I'm not arguing that the the 650D is better than the nikon I have no idea, but that megapixels are no indication of anything really other than how much space each image will take up on the card.
While yes more pixels should always be good, it can be a pain, larger file sizes mean more storage required, also means they will take longer to process in lightroom or whatever. It also means your burst is lower. You can always turn the quality down however personally I have a mental block on doing that because I need ALL TEH PIXELS!
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
Last edited by chris-red on 12:45 - 30 Jun 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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chris-red
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| Posted: 12:42 - 30 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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What's up?
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything. |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 15:10 - 30 Jun 2017 Post subject: |
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| chris-red wrote: | For me from a sensor I'd take lower noise at high iso over high MP any day. My 20D which is a relic now has I think a 10mp sensor. I've never felt it held anything back. 10MP is easily enough to get A3 prints I would have thought. |
Daughter has just finished her A-Level photography, after her Oh.. sorry, GCSE course. I actually bought her a 2nd hand Nik D3100 which has 16Mega-Pixie sensor, for that, to save my D3200 from her water-balloon experiments and other silicone unfreindly high-jinks!
It's a bit more than the older Canons, but, for all her course work, she has been using that, a little 12Mpic Cannon Compact and a lot of her submission work was actually shot with her i-phone, (or whatever multi-function under chin lighting device she has this week to replace the one that she broke, or was deemed sooooo out of date last....)
A3 hard-print is Aprox 20x10inch; At 300dpi, that begs aprox 18Mpix, but at 150Dpi, only 9Mpix; So exhibition/submission pieces, I believe the daughter was working to approx 10-12Mpix digi-masters to down-size to aprox 8Mpix for print.. So, I would have thought it should be plenty, and some, for almost all, but properly demanding professional/exhibition stuff.
10Mpix, is Co-indentally the pixie out-put I get from my 20 year old 35mm film scanner; (it took a decade for direct Digi cameras to catch up!) Back in the mid 90's I was making A4 prints that were NPQ from sub 5Mpix scans, as the hardware of the era struggled to handle anything even that big!
When I bought my D3200, with 24Mpix, the extra pixies it had over the D3100 were, I'll admit a deciding factor; but because having fish for film, I intended to get a full-round fish for digital. 12mm on 35mm gives a cropped circle, that does a fair job of filling the frame, but you do loose some fishiness and the corners; maybe 1/3 the frame area to masking. With a full round putting a circle in the middle of the oblong, you loose almost half the possible pixies to masking before you start cropping, so the 'extra' served purpose; image circle from fish works out about 12 'used' Mega-pixies, from 'available' on 24Mpix sensor, so just enough to have some spare to crop down and stay in the 10Mpix order.
Another little aside thunk, in similar vein to the idea that Digital is 'costless', is the notion of the 'quick and easy' "Instant" pictures.... yeah.... time it takes to clear down a 16Gb SD card, the time it takes to 'resolve' a preview image o the monitor, the time it takes to open a file to edit, and render those edits, and WHY am I doing THAT!?!.. ad ts only got worse as file-sizes have inflated with pixie-count! Again makes me contemplate the comparison between Film and Digital in the 'reality'!
Daughter decide to have a crack at some 'film' photo to add to her O/A level port-folio to show experimentation with other media; and stole one of my little XA2 compacts as a carry-about, and did an SLR shoot using my old Zenit SLR.... she got me to second shoot on widgetal for comparison.. stopped at ASDA to get some snax on the way home; dropped her film into the 1hr lab, and she was looking at prints, before I could even get the ruddy digi-pics off the card!
So much technology, to NOT save either time OR money? And they tell us THIS is progress.... I DO have to wonder, at times... but still.
High pixel counts can very much be as much of a handicap as an advantage, and for all practical purposes, I have had to down-size pretty much everything have shot in digital, since my first 1.3Mpix compact, from 2003, for display/distribution.
It's a bit like judging how good motorbike must be just by the quoted peak power figure.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 298 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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