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Engine Overhaul Initial Start-up Tips

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sparkywilliam...
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Engine Overhaul Initial Start-up Tips Reply with quote

Hello chaps,

I am about to fire-up my bandit 600 engine which I have had apart to fix a transmission problem and would like any tips to help everything go smoothly. I have used asssembly grease on the camlobes and have turned her over to move oil around a bit,and i can hear pump working.

In my Haynes manual under 'initial startup after overhaul' ..suggests;
make sure oil level is ok (obviously!) pull the Ignition caps off and insert spare plugs,position all four against engine,crank her until low oil light goes off,remove spare sparks and re-insert ignition caps into engine and away you go.

I have my old sparks in her at the moment and have a new set in the caps and was going to follow Haynes advice but wondered if you guys had any other wisdom to add before i press that button.

I also do have a oil pressure tester which I would like to connect to the main oil gallery plug to check op pressure is correct but ,as i understand it,that can only be done once eng temp is at normal?

I suspect I'm beng overly worried about this but it's because I have never fired her up after having done major work before,in this instance i obvioulsy had to take the crankcase halves apart etc.

Any words of widsom would be great.
Thank you guys
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Kris
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hit the starter, then when she fires up hit the kill switch.

Do this four or five times then let it run and warm up as normal.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unplug coils, turn it over till you get oil pressure, then fire up as normal and keep it nice and slow for a few minutes.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you turned it over by hand, to make sure the cam's not 180 about of anything daft ad valves about to get mashed by pistons?

Then, I ted to do oil-pressure spin up, plugs out, odd an old car battery on jump-leads to save the diddy bike one.

Then first fire the same way; avoiding prolonged cranking; whilst trying to get t to catch and burn off assembly lube.. again short bursts, to save the starter.

Once it's caught; it'll probably not stay alive too well, as it burns off; so I play it y ear and try not to let it rev or race, and may pull plugs and have to clean before it'll settle down, and I get a steady idle to warm up and burn off; when exhaqust smoke clears and it'll run without choke; I'll let it tick over for a miute or two, before letting it coole before pulling hot plugs and popping clean new ones, to tweek carb settings ad set base idle.

But main tip, if there is one, is to use car battery on jump-leads... I never expect them to play ball, and faffing about tryng to find a crossed coil connection or a misaligned trigger, or that the fuel tap's ot on, or the vac-hose is split, or or or.... can beg a fair bit of cranking, and kill a little bike battery.
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sparkywilliam...
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you fellas,

Yes Teflon I have already turned her over by hand to check valves timing and all seems well....famous last words!

So guys this is how I'm gonna play it;
I shall turn her over by hand again a few times to distribute some oil and build up a little pressure.
Leave her in piston#1 TDC
Connect up a car battery with boosters
Try to arrange all the ignition caps with the new sparks in them with them touching the engine rocker cover.
Crank and check for healthy sparks=healthy ignition system.
Check oil light switch has gone out.
Crank with caps back in on my old ,cleaned but known to be working sparks in her.
Once she catches,kill it and check for any oil leaks.
Repeat until she's burned all the oil off inside.
May have to remove sparks to clean fouling perhaps.
Much later on I shall use my new sparks in her once i know all the crap has burned off.
check again neurotically for oil leaks.

You 've all advised,quite sensibly, not to race her too much on start up but I read somewhere that unless you rev fairly high on first start up you are unlikely to build up enough oil pressure to get it up to the camshafts or is that a load of crap?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're super paranoid, leave the rocker cover off and the plugs out, bung it in second gear and push it about until you see the oil coming up into the rocker box.

If you want to turn it over without it actually firing, just short across the solenoid terminals with the ignition off. This'll turn the starter over but nothing else.

In harsh reality, oil pumps on modern bikes are such that the oil will be up there within a second or two of firing it up as anyone who's bled the oil pump oin a dry sump bike will tell you.

Contrastingly, it takes 2m 30s of idling for oil to get from the oil tank to the rocker box on an enfield bullet.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd keep it running once you start it and until it's at full working temperature, before you switch off let it cool and check for leaks or bolt torque settings.

If you kill a cold engine repeatedly you'll risk fouling the plugs and also you wash off all the oil from the bores.

New cams are supposed to be run at 2000rpm for 20min or something following Kent cams procedure etc.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just start it. Do you think that they go through all that crap at the factory or do they fill it with oil and hit the starter?
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Just start it. Do you think that they go through all that crap at the factory or do they fill it with oil and hit the starter?

According to a Kawasaki Promo-vid, I watched recently; they roll the bike onto a rolling road at the end of the line; it's motored up on the rollers, before fire; then goes through something like a five minute simulated road test, to check brakes and gears and throttle response etc, before final 'run' takes actual RW BHP figures.
Engines appeared to be sent to line all oiled up and ready to run, after a similar end of line bench test, but they didn't show what they did on the bench...without exhaust, I suspect it was only being motored.

With Japanese Corporate Bushido and career sepuku expected for any 'operator error'; they don't tend to get many "Ah! Now, why do I have four bolts and a gasket that doesn't seem to belong any-where?" moments, we get in the DIY world Laughing
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 30 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but if they are making 100 ZX10R's a day for example, I bet they don't, and can't rolling road test each bike for even 5mins.

I worked on the production line years ago for the then Midlands biggest manufacturer. I was in quality control at the end of the line near where the guy puts petrol in before they drive the cars off the line.

It was no more than 1car per hour we'd take off for detailed inspection, though several cars would have already passed through rectification bays for stuff like panel fit and imperfections in the paint.

Even fewer cars would get pulled off for random rolling road testing in terms of performance testing. Obviously as cars come off the line they are brake tested on a roller, but it's a 30second process at best.

They never bench test all engines either in most volume car production, can't see bikes being any different in volume production.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 01 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Yeah but if they are making 100 ZX10R's a day for example, I bet they don't, and can't rolling road test each bike for even 5mins.

I worked on the production line years ago for the then Midlands biggest manufacturer. I was in quality control at the end of the line near where the guy puts petrol in before they drive the cars off the line.

It was no more than 1car per hour we'd take off for detailed inspection, though several cars would have already passed through rectification bays for stuff like panel fit and imperfections in the paint.

Even fewer cars would get pulled off for random rolling road testing in terms of performance testing. Obviously as cars come off the line they are brake tested on a roller, but it's a 30second process at best.

They never bench test all engines either in most volume car production, can't see bikes being any different in volume production.


If that was anything to do with BL/Rustin Over, I wouldn't admit to that - the sketchiest QC of any car I ever sold, up to and including TVR and Lotus!
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 01:07 - 01 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Yeah but if they are making 100 ZX10R's a day for example, I bet they don't, and can't rolling road test each bike for even 5mins.

KAWASAKI History, by Discovery channe
Have a look; I think it was that one; show the final test around 29min in. OTMH I think they were making ER6's, and reckoned they made about one a minute; all fully tested at EOL.

As far as offering precedents for 'best practice' in QC offering the example of Longbridge or heaven forbid Brownhlls, is rather like suggesting the USA as a precedent for good gun control! Lol!

I was actually just oop-rowed at Looo-Kuss; but had joined after a while working for a German electrical 1st teir making switches and harnesses most notably for Toyota at Derby.. when the Japs said 100% test, they MEANT 100% test! Test rig actually had a key lock down on it, so if an indy switch failed, it would lock it to the rig, and start sounding klaxon and flashing beacons, and making the line lights flash, until a QC came and put the key in, and he couldn't restart the line until he got a code off the computer for entering the failure investigation report!

I came in one morning to absolute chaos; when the test-rig had shut down the line; three days of major meetings and international tele-cons later, and a junior production engineer spending 36 hours on air-liners to get 'parts' to fix the rig.... 'problem' having been bottomed out to the test rig computer's hard drive having reached capacity for saving test results!!! I went t work for Looocas! It was like a village cricket club social evening by comparison!

Actually.. come to think of it, DKL was a village cricket club social evening... that occasionally looked at light-bulbs! Seriously, I knew blokes who's promotions were entirely attributable to their batting average, rather than what they dd at work! "Yes, I KNOW he's an idiot... but we needed a good left field if we were to beat Acocks green!" lol! (I dont play cricket, probably why I never made senior management I guess!)
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:04 - 01 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
probably why I never made senior management I guess!)


I can think of other possibilities Razz
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sparkywilliam...
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 12 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update ..no catastrophe,all seems well.
I did an oil pressure check and she's at middle of the recommended range,at 60psi @ 3k rpms.
Thanks to all who replied to me.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 13 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 13 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Unplug coils, turn it over till you get oil pressure, then fire up as normal and keep it nice and slow for a few minutes.


^ This sort of thing.
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