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Greenlaning bike for £1500

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ReadySalted
Scooby Slapper



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PostPosted: 23:07 - 09 Jun 2017    Post subject: Greenlaning bike for £1500 Reply with quote

On and off for about the past 2 years I've looked into buying a bike for greenlaning. Done a fair bit in landrovers so know the score, but off road motorbike experience is practically none.

Ideally I want around a 400cc trail bike as opposed to a 250 enduro because the speedo, ignition key, servicing, suitability for road etc will be handy considering I'll have a good half hour ride to most lanes. I do have a van though so definitely not a deal breaker. The only must is an electric start.

I have more or less settled on a DRZ400 but they start at around 2K and thats a 15 year old model. If anybody has any suggestions of bikes which are fine for a newbie, electric start, and reliable then please shout up. I've been searching daily and wondering if I need to spend a bit more or just wait.
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Moo.
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suzuki DR 250/350

Yamaha TTR 250 (I have two of these I use for greenlaning, really rate them)

Honda XR250/400 (400's don't have kick starts but are great bikes)

All these can be found upto £1500

Can I ask why you want a 400? They usually tend to be heavier bikes and the 250s have plenty of usable power.

On a 250 suitability for the road.. One ttr gets used as a daily commuter 40 miles to work.. It'll get upto an indicated 80mph and sits happily at 70mph returns about 60-65mpg. I don't find them lacking on the road at all or to have annoying service intervals. I'm a member of the TRF so often out with others on much larger machines and it's never left behind.

Known to be pretty bullet proof and plenty have been overlanded round the world, so dont be put off too much by 250s
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 08:55 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Re: Greenlaning bike for £1500 Reply with quote

Also; why electric start?

My usual suggestion especially if you've got a van would be a 250cc or 300cc 2 stroke competition enduro bike.

A good bit lighter than a DRZ, more usable power and easy to start.

Some newer ones comes with the electric boot.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

|I wouldn't shy away from a kick start only bike either. Most smaller bikes area dead easy to kick into life. Plus it's cool Thumbs Up
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ReadySalted
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 400 because the gaps between lanes are generally a good 10-20 minutes riding down lanes and B roads, and I live on the Welsh border so unless I'm taking the van (not against the idea), I would have about a half hour ride to the nearest lane. A friend in the TRF suggests 400 will be more gutsy and the weight is offset by it's advantage on road bits. Your bike suggestions are great, I will look into them thankyou.

Reason I'm dead set on electric start is because I've had a couple of kick start bikes in the past. Admittedly older bikes, but they've all been pigs and I hate that feeling. There may be some who think it's a rite of passage to start with a kick start bike but I've spent enough time on garage forecourts futilely kicking a bike over to know how shite it is lol.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 10 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no off road expert, however I had a DRZ400E that I used off road, it was great for blasting along gravel/hard pack roads, not sure I would have enjoyed mud plugging on it, it is a heavy bike, (the E is actually lighter than the S by a few kg's).
There is a Suzuki kickstart kit available for the DRZ, easy enough to find with a quick google!
My puny little XL125 seems quite capable on green lanes, so don't discount going smaller!
I wouldn't discount a 250 for the road section, how fast do you actually want to go?
I might have a punt on a KLX250 later this year, will have to do more research though.
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Mawsley
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 11 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd happily take a DR400 off-road, I do it with my XT600. That said, lighter bikes are easier to pick up when they go down in the mud.

Just like tyres, you'll be the only one who knows how much time you'll spend on and off road - and how much compromise that will mean to bike choice. If I didn't need a road bike beyond going between lanes then I'd go 250ish too.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 11 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

At £1,500 beggars can't be choosers. If you see a bike that is in decent nick, and capable, get it.

Personally I prefer my 300cc 2 stroke, and I just put up with how much it sucks on the road.

I've ridden DR's in NZ and they are very capable.
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 11 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another fan of the TTR250 here, you say you need a 400 for the road sections, but the 6 speed of the TTR helps here, a lot of 5 speeds are revving their nuts off,
Also electric start is certainly an advantage when ya fucked on a deep muddy lane, again the TTR offer both electric and Kick start if that`s your thing,
The later ones do retain some value, but the older ones can be had for a bargain price.
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Fladdem
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 11 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My TTR was £1100, my CRM was £1400.

Both of which are fantastic machines. Both will do around about 95mph flat out. When they were both working, I'd pick the TTR because of that engine. I loved it. I'm not a fan of enduro machines, I can never really get on with them, I'm not sure why though.

The CRM is good, but I find I have to bear in mind the revs and gear selection a bit more. They're both OK on the road, TTR slightly better but nothing in it really, only the better brakes on the Yamaha swing it for me.

Please note, the CRM is almost completely standard, barring some suspension work, the Yamaha has had about three grand chucked at it, I would guess. It's now awaiting an engine strip to replace a broken bit of casing. I must get onto that, it's been over two years.

I would recommend the TTR. If I could only have one of my bikes, that would be it. Cheap to run, service, insure. Fairly reliable. Parts are a bit tricky but not impossible, depends what you're after.

Best of luck. Thumbs Up
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 11 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trick with the TTR is finding one, especially at £1500
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 11 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again I wouldn't be too picky at £1500, and condition over trickness and hardcore ability every time.

If I was going to ride it more than 1/2 hour on the road at a time, I'd want a trail bike over most enduro bikes too.

Oh and electric start really? On a pure off road bike or just one your going to use almost entirely off road I simply wouldn't buy any bike that wasn't kick start only. Even if it was a 650cc thumper. Electric boots on off road bikes are as girlie as fuck and I want no part in this feminist movement.
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ReadySalted
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 12 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate all the advice. Interestingly a mid noughties KTM exc 400 has come up locally for a fair bit more than my budget but I could stretch to it. I'm seriously considering it, and reviews online of of the exc 400 seem spectacular with most people rubbishing the short service intervals which I had come to associate KTM with. I'm turning on a sixpence now of course but I have a van to rule out long rides to the lanes, and some say KTM 400s are the best machine for trail riding, so what do we think?
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 22:32 - 12 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 400 has a good rep, but personally I still prefer the 2 strokes if you're going for a proper enduro bike.

Can't use engine braking, but less weight and less rotating mass. Better low down power on the 300 than the 400.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 08:28 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G are you talking about not using engine braking on a 2stroke enduro bike because there isn't really any? Or is it other reasons?

On low speed off road use, and with a bike set up and jetted correctly with the right oil/fuel mix, I've not known any issues with shutting the throttle and staying in gear.

We used to do it on our trials bikes, and most MX tracks too where your either on the throttle or off it constantly over the lap.

I think killing engines with engine braking comes from road and track use, where your off the throttle at high Revs at the end of each straight for longer periods, and then downshifting which overruns the engine. Also from dyno testing where clueless operators shut the throttle at high rpm.

Small high revving engines will suffer more than big bore 2strokes in this instance too.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 08:37 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greenlaning there can be long consistent downhill sections which on a 4 stroke you may choose to not touch the brakes and just let the engine braking control your speed by selecting the right gear you can run down it with the throttle off at your desired speed.

I thought the expected wisdom was that this was a bad thing - different to motocross and trials where such segments are typically very short.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your reasoning, but again I my limited green laning experience, compared to trials, MX and pay and play sites, I've never come across a steep down hill that's 1/2mile long etc and smooth enough to carry any speed.

I guess your examples would be a bit more like long fast downhill mountain bike trails where your flying along for ages? I'm sure such lanes do exist, but I've never ridden anything other than slow through the woods type green lanes.

Anyway shutting down a stroker at 11'000rpm and several seconds later banging it down two or three gears like you would on the road or track is where damage gets done. Also we are mainly talking about pre-mix oiled bikes here, and bear in mind that most people are still running nice lean off road oil ratios on their road or track bikes.

I can't remember where I read about it, but there was some testing done by a manufacturer that showed that for race use, you don't get any more power from going leaner than about 25:1 with oil. Yet I bet most fast road and track day riders on the highly tuned 125/250's are if using pre-mix running much leaner on oil than this.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and sorry to OP for off topic.

The orange option is always supposed to be the best, and it'll make people think you know what your doing too, so a good thing in some ways I guess.

I don't know much about KTM 400's, but I'd go and look at the bike definitely if it's affordable. If it runs and sounds ok, get it bought and get it home. Do all the usual oil/filter change, clean out any sump strainers etc and change air and fuel filters and the coolant etc. I'd be checking for any damage to any pipes or hoses, and the radiators which on most off road bikes take alot of bashing too. Check the valve clearances and stick to the factory mileage or hours service intervals at the least.

My only concern with going orange is the parts prices and delivery times. I only know from a mate that had an orange bike, he found bits were always expensive and everything was mail order with sometimes a couple of weeks wait for parts.

I personally like walking up to my local dealers parts counter with a list, and generally leaving the shop with at least half the parts I wanted on the day.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 10:20 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite a few of those sorts of things in the Surrey green lanes.

Less so around Berkshire.

A bit different, but doing the Hafren rally there were certainly long down hill sections, but as it was a competitive event, they were more 'interesting' and did require adjusting speed pretty constantly as you navigating around/over rocks etc.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owning a KTM 450 as I do,I cna definitely say that I prefer this bike over my XR400R ex-race bike (which is kick start only).
Having raced both at the Hafren event a number of times,the lightness of the 450 over the 400 was a definite advantage.

But that is just my preference Thumbs Up Smile Thumbs Up

As I read OPs opening post,my mind immediately thought of the TTR250R,which,in the USA,has been found to perform much better with a 305cc piston kit installed,without any loss in reliability.
A friend bought his grey import TTR for £900 and although he feels he is not up to competing on it,he still enjoys the occasional greenlane outing.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 20:19 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved the KTM144XC at Hafren - a bit lacking in oomph in a few places, but on those said downhills, being not too far off 20kg lighter than the big 4 stroke competition bikes it felt almost mountain-bike like in comparison!
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ReadySalted
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 13 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well just to round this up I've rather boringly ended up going for the KTM. Was a fair bit more than my original 1500 budget but it was in my town which is a rarity and I knew if I didn't go for this one I'd end up biting the bullet in a few months and having to travel to find one. It's a 2004 EXC400 so RFS engine which I have read is usually reliable, and the guy selling is a local fella who has had it for greenlaning for 7 years so a decent chunk of it's existence. Looks used but it's been serviced well. I've come full circle from where I was initially, seeing as I wanted road-ability, ignition, and indicators etc but tbf everyone seems to recommend KTM and alot seem to migrate to them so hopefully it's worth it.

I'll be going round to pick the bike up later in the week, but now I'm skint and need to find some second hand boots and armour. I'll post some pics when I can. Cheers for all the advice and discussion!
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 11:04 - 14 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What size for boots/armour?

Don't think I've got much in the way of boots, but might be able to do something for armour - though you can get pretty cheap enduro armour suits anyway.

Cheap and decent knee armour is much harder to find.
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ReadySalted
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 14 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a size 10 in normal boots. Presumably bike boots would be the same?

Armour size im not sure. 6' 1" and about 14.5 stone. I'd guess a large but bike sizes are like a lucky dip to be fair so not sure what size to go for in that.

I've seen some wulfsport boots for 70 quid online which had good reviews, and some cheapo armour for about 30 quid. I thought that wasn't too bad for new stuff, but am just as happy with second hand if it's cheaper. Will try and get something ordered tonight or tomorrow I expect. For a helmet I just thought a local bike shop that sells off road helmets so I ca try them and buy one for 50 quid if I can. I expect to fall off a lot and my main concern is whether to get an adventure one with a screen, or motocross one and goggles.

As always advice is very appreciated.
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Fladdem
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 14 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would advice against wulfsport boots. My first pair of mix boots were Wulf and I needed a 13 and they feel a bit clumsy. I bought some AlpineStar Tech 5's and they feel like trainers. So much better, if you're comfortable in the gear, you'll wear it. I never wore my Wulf boots. You can have them for 50 if you want, I'm normally a ten as well? Not a bad starter boot but I never had the patience to break it in. I bought them when I was 18 for about £130 and used them about ten times. I'm now 22.

I have only ever heard good things about the EXC 400 early 2000 models.

A mate of mine races and lanes one. Supposed to be a really good bit of kit.

Armour, I picked up a GP Pro full body armour kit a few years ago for 60 quid, again, when I was about 18, from the NEC bike show. I was six foot four and about twelve stone. I'm now about fourteen stone and it still fits well. It was a medium. Best advice is try it on. I love it. It is my favourite thing I have bought gear wise. Saved me from a good few bruises I reckon. Some people don't like the full body armour and prefer separate chest plates, elbow pads and kidney belts. Nice and light and doesn't get too hot.

Have fun mate! Thumbs Up
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.
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