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DAS/Lessons: It's time to talk money...

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Are motorcycle lessons overpriced?
Yes
26%
 26%  [ 12 ]
No
69%
 69%  [ 32 ]
Unsure
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 46

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155mph
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 03 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My DAS instructor had a student ride up his arse because he hadn't noticed he had stopped. Bike was a write off.

You don't get rich being DSA instructor. Some do it for the money. Most do it for the love of biking.

I paid £600 for 5-days training including test fees. Full 8 hour days so £15/hour. No, I don't think it is over-priced.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 03 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

155mph wrote:


You don't get rich being DSA instructor. Some do it for the money. Most do it for the love of biking.
.


Aint that the truth. We're one of the busiest and biggest schools on the south coast, 4 full time instructors (3 of them DAS one is CBT1C) and 2 downtrained part time instructors, We're have 26 DAS courses between now and mid August and most weekends everyone is on site spread between DAS and CBT. We have 2 sites we operate from too.

Still not rich and I am senior instructor.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 03 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

riejumike wrote:
Snowdonia Rider wrote:
Any sort of motoring in this country is expensive. Two wheels or four.


I totally agree, and for better or worse we have relatively safe roads with relatively competent drivers Smile

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Futurama-Fry.jpg

Bikes are relatively cheap... well not to buy now, or get your licence, but to insure/tax/run. What still annoys me is you're meant to go for training when you've probably already been wobbling around on L plates, and nearly died 100 times. Seems a bit daft. Keep the current rules for DAS, let paupers on tiddlers have a cheap option to a full licence (or at least a few extra ponies).

What was the question? Yes I think it's a bit overpriced if I'm honest, I've only paid to hang out with old bikers with a bad attitude*, who taught me next to nothing in return for hundreds of pounds.

*I'm sure there are good instructors, I just didn't meet them
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 03 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:


*I'm sure there are good instructors, I just didn't meet them


That is the sad fact of this game. I have had a few students who fluffed it with another school come through our school and every one of them said the same thing. They wish they had came to us first. While it is good to hear this kind of compliment, I really wish I did not. Given how dangerous our world is we should all be working from the same page. But there are schools out there cutting serious corners.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 03 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Still not rich and I am senior instructor.

You've been doing it 5 minutes. What's the turnover like? Thinking
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 03 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's madness about the A1 to A tests, requiring a new theory test, yet stepped access doesn't?

Totally daft, as my preferred dodge the silly system of crap emasculated bikes, is always to do A1 and buy a fucking nice 125, then spend the next few years tuning the shit out of it, big bore kits or larger engine conversions to dodge A2, have fun on a tuned small bike, and save up for your first unrestricted power to weight ratio bike when you get your A piece of paper.
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DRZ4Hunned
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
That's madness about the A1 to A tests, requiring a new theory test, yet stepped access doesn't?

Totally daft, as my preferred dodge the silly system of crap emasculated bikes, is always to do A1 and buy a fucking nice 125, then spend the next few years tuning the shit out of it, big bore kits or larger engine conversions to dodge A2, have fun on a tuned small bike, and save up for your first unrestricted power to weight ratio bike when you get your A piece of paper.


Or... Do A2 at 19, buy FZS600 and 'restrict' it... Do A licence when 21 on unrestricted FZS for £100. Thumbs Up

I'll be doing this once I figure out how to fit my L plate to my front forks Laughing
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 06:58 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
pinkyfloyd wrote:
Still not rich and I am senior instructor.

You've been doing it 5 minutes. What's the turnover like? Thinking


The 2 bosses are taking a step back, one because he's 63, one because she needs to focus on admin, hence the me being senior. Turn over is good, Not rich but I am not struggling. We have enough to do things we like and keep the vehicles on the road. Where as before we could barely afford 2 vehicles.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:32 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant staff turnover.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
I meant staff turnover.

They're experts, never turn over. Always shiny side up.
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Ayup_Mi-Duck
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the lessons were a bit over priced, but im a tight bastard. id have to book a 2 hour lesson and of the lesson, the instructors would spend 15-20 mins of it sucking each others dicks and nattering. so I went to a different school.

tbh the tests were easy and if you feel ok on a bike for 4 years, just have a couple of lessons and have a bash at the mod1. its less than 20 quid. might as well.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
I meant staff turnover.


None, not a single one, When I joined the team there was 2. 4 years later we are 6. We have not advertised for staff, they just turn up and stay. Not one of us would go somewhere else.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
M.C wrote:


*I'm sure there are good instructors, I just didn't meet them


That is the sad fact of this game. I have had a few students who fluffed it with another school come through our school and every one of them said the same thing. They wish they had came to us first. While it is good to hear this kind of compliment, I really wish I did not. Given how dangerous our world is we should all be working from the same page. But there are schools out there cutting serious corners.

This is why I sometimes cringe when DAS is automatically recommended for noobs. I remember in our Mod 1 practice for the estop/hazard avoidance, we went to an industrial estate, with a broken up road surface and high kerbs. If a noob came off there they could have done serious damage to themselves, not to mention the cars that would come along and run over our cones Rolling Eyes

I get that schools have overheads etc., but stuff like the instructor caning it through a section of twisties (on day 1 of training), then saying we didn't do too badly turning up 15 seconds after him isn't great instruction. I guess being an experienced rider doesn't make you a good instructor.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

This is why I sometimes cringe when DAS is automatically recommended for noobs. I remember in our Mod 1 practice for the estop/hazard avoidance, we went to an industrial estate, with a broken up road surface and high kerbs. If a noob came off there they could have done serious damage to themselves, not to mention the cars that would come along and run over our cones Rolling Eyes
r.


We have had students who want to go through to DAS and we've recommended at least 6 months on 125 to build up road experience and confidence. On the flip side we've had some who have been great and gone straight from zero to hero with no issues. We assess it during their CBT and we'll be honest, if you are not ready for a big bike we will tell you.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As pointed out, there's a massive discrepancy between paying around £35 per hour (going rate round here) and then multiplying it by 40 and then 52 for a yearly wage.
I'd love that sort of turnover per instructor!
Quick look in my diary has 16 days this year that frost caused cancellations. Also, a CBT can take 2 days out of the week in the winter once fatigue sets in (pupil and instructor!!).

Tl;Dr.... Op, your sums don't add up in the real world.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
We have had students who want to go through to DAS and we've recommended at least 6 months on 125 to build up road experience

You discourage them from getting trained, in order to improve their safety? Thinking
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it not be safer for them to do DAS and then spend six months on a 125 building up road experience before they get a big bike of their own? Confused
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes they need the road experience, While enough for a CBT some just need to spend time gaining more confidence before being ready for a big bike.
____________________
illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
pinkyfloyd wrote:
We have had students who want to go through to DAS and we've recommended at least 6 months on 125 to build up road experience

You discourage them from getting trained, in order to improve their safety? Thinking


taught knowledge builds better on a foundation of experience ...
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
pinkyfloyd wrote:
We have had students who want to go through to DAS and we've recommended at least 6 months on 125 to build up road experience

You discourage them from getting trained, in order to improve their safety? Thinking

Biiiiicycle, biiiiiicycle Wink I needed my tiddler time, and no way would I have got through my tests without that experience.
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GSTEEL32
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
you've probably already been wobbling around on L plates, and nearly died 100 times.


So Funny.

So True.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 04 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
taught knowledge builds better on a foundation of experience ...

Dead men tell no tales.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Copycat73 wrote:
taught knowledge builds better on a foundation of experience ...

Dead men tell no tales.


they don`t commission Services or pay no bills ..

so that would be a very un-enterprising methodology of business ...

if it was infact the case...
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is overpriced due to most of it being increasingly unnecessary. Tests, insurance etc all need to be cut back.

pinkyfloyd wrote:

According to the UK average for car driving, its 40 hours of lessons plus test fee, Even at £25 per hour that is £1000 before test.


Not if they're riding around in their parents car.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 06:40 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
It is overpriced due to most of it being increasingly unnecessary. Tests, insurance etc all need to be cut back.

pinkyfloyd wrote:

According to the UK average for car driving, its 40 hours of lessons plus test fee, Even at £25 per hour that is £1000 before test.


Not if they're riding around in their parents car.


Tests need to be cut back? That is the most tarded thing I have heard, I have just done my car test, no way was that strict enough for me to be let lose on the roads. An emergency stop and one reversing manoeuvre was all I done. Everything I done was the instructor was practical real world. Even the set manoeuvres I will be doing leaving or returning to my house.

As for the comment about parents car, Again, pointless comment, not everyone has that luxury, and more people use schools than parents.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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