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Retro Gaming PC Project

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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Retro Gaming PC Project Reply with quote

For a while now I've wanted a Legacy System to run old games/software that cannot run on modern systems.

I had been keeping an eye open at boot sales/ebay for anything Win95/98.

Yesterday I pulled the trigger on one on ebay and went to pick it up...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_190626_zpsvq5z69xw.jpg

* I love those bungies apart from one thing which REALLY fucks me off, their are 3 different sizes but the colours to do relate to the size Evil or Very Mad It makes me so angry every time I use them.

Anyway I liberated some ancient peripherals from work (all brand new!)

And got to work setting it up, this is the spec.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/IlUAAOSwpONZT7H2/s-l1600.jpg

I imagine there is a fair bit of eye rolling by people in the know at the moment but bear with me Laughing

This PC is new. I mean it, BRAND new. It also happens to be more or less the same as my first PC. Mine was a 366 celeron, with a 4.3gb HDD and had a CD rather than a DVD. The case is identical. The memories are strong!

I was hoping to upgrade it it abit whilst still keeping it period (ish)



https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_191856_zpsm81qiyea.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_192120_zps9xcrhnp9.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_192259_zps1jd7hjzj.jpg

See brand new!

Note no Ethernet port, I Had forgoted they weren't standard on Motherboard back them (a common theme of this project)

Thankfully it is Y2K compliant.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_192234_zpsmo1rzt7d.jpg

I booted it up, aside from some dodgy cmos stuff it went straight into the last part of Windows set up (name, Local settings, Licence Key etc.)
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_192833_zpsfsx41gfg.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_193010_zpsd39we0wa.jpg
I love the windows detail in the side of the case Laughing

It loads surprisingly quick, I remember my PC being far slower, however it did only have the 366 celeron (and probably a fuck load of crap and viruses downloaded from Kazaa) It is also VERY noisy the CPU fan seems to be on 100% all the time and the harddrive is LOUD, I had forgot they used to sound like a Geiger counter in Pripyat.

I imagine the Thermal paste probably isn't great and could do with being reapplied but I'm not actually sure whether the fans in this are gradiated or if they are just on 100% all the time.


https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_193841_zpsptsy02y2.jpg

It sure felt like it...

I took it apart as I wanted to install 98SE however I want to Leave the existing drive in it alone I would like it to remain original.

I had 1 IDE drive. A 160gb jobby from my second ever PC. However this didn't detect in the bios at first. I assumed it wasn't compatible with the motherboard I noticed there was a jumper (Jumpers remember them!) setting to limit the drive to 32gb, however this required 2 and I think I binned my little pot of jumpers about 10 years ago. I scavenged one from the drive that came with the PC and had success with it being detected in the POST.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170704_215214_zpssviugxfh.jpg

I then bunged in the Windows SE CD and tried to install Windows. I had forgotten you cannot partition a hard drive from Windows Setup you have to use a boot disc! Fortunately you can boot from CD in this model so I downloaded a 98 boot disc and ran FDISK however it only detected the drive as 8gb. I fucked about for a few hours trying various things. But I still could not partition the drive bigger than 8gb. I had no way of linking it to a newer machine and I couldn't get the drive to be detected in Windows as a secondary master. I tried Hirens however that bombed one when it tried to create a 64mb RAM disc Laughing

In the end I gave up and just installed SE to the 8gb partition. It was surprisingly easy and quick. Only the on board sound wasn't installed as part of the set up.

One annoyance was 98's inability to detect USB drives without drivers. I gave up after the drivers I burnt to CD wouldn't read in the old machine.

My plans for upgrades where to make it something I would have creamed my pants over as a kid.

Originally I had planned to replace the CPU with a Pentium 2/3, that was before I knew what the Mobo/Chipset was. Being so old I could find next to no information about the PC or the Mobo.

I have since learned it is a 440LX chipset which isn't great it is limited to a 66mhz FSB which means the celeron 500 is the best it can have. I'm a little bummed about that as were it the BX chipset I could have fitted a P3 up to about 1ghz they sell for less than £10 on ebay too.

Anyway 366 did me fine back in the day so I can live with 500.

I started the upgrade by removing the 56k modem.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170705_092731_zpsp2y1atlg.jpg

The size of the board is impressive. Laughing

The Graphics card seemed unhappy about this.

It sliced me good, old PCBs are SHARP.


https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170705_104443_zpsnuytddnd.jpg

Whats next, RAM Upgrade, Ethernet, Graphics, IDE-CF.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you had said you wanted old kit... you coulda had a load of stuff from me for nowt.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have a load of old bits. I have an old SFF system for when I (very rarely) need it:

https://id3416.securedata.net/megsales/sff.jpg

It has Win98se on a 500MB hard drive Smile

Edit: fairly certain I used to use these drivers for USB devices (the top link) https://www.jessops.com/ucr

Your partition problems I seem to remember having the same problem on a Pentium 1, maybe the solution will come back to me...


Last edited by M.C on 12:39 - 05 Jul 2017; edited 1 time in total
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
If you had said you wanted old kit... you coulda had a load of stuff from me for nowt.


FFS Laughing


I've kind of glad I go this one TBH, the member-berries are great even if the case sucks. Laughing


I've you have a P3 Motherboard ATX with a chipset that allows for FSB of 100/133 and AGP. I'll gladly take it off your hands Very Happy Praying
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I too have a load of old bits. I have an old SFF system for when I (very rarely) need it:

https://id3416.securedata.net/megsales/sff.jpg

It has Win98se on a 500MB hard drive Smile

Edit: fairly certain I used to use these drivers for USB devices (the top link) https://www.jessops.com/ucr

Your partition problems I seem to remember having the same problem on a Pentium 1, maybe the solution will come back to me...


I have the drivers, I just can't get them on the machine Laughing
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
I've you have a P3 Motherboard ATX with a chipset that allows for FSB of 100/133 and AGP. I'll gladly take it off your hands Very Happy Praying


p4 2.8ghz with a p4m800pro-m478
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit too new I'm afraid, getting 98 running on it will be a pain if possible at all.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Project!

I still have my Celeron 433MHz, Riva TNT2, IBM 8GB ATA-HDD and some RAM. Unfortunately my motherboard is dead. I was fiddling around with it a few years back, even had a discussion with some BCF members about it. There is a slight chance my issues were due to a new PSU. Modern PSUs don't supply enough current through the leads to the MB/CPU as modern MB/CPUs got more efficient and therefore less power hungry. But I don't think that was the reason of my failure. The MB is just dead and I'm done trying. Thumbs Down

https://cdn.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Celeron/S_Intel-Celeron%20433%20(ES%20front).jpg
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
A bit too new I'm afraid, getting 98 running on it will be a pain if possible at all.

I might have something, can't remember the model off the top of my head (I'm away ATM), but it's a 1.4ghz AMD Sempron system (with an AGP slot). I used to run 98 on it before reluctantly upgrading to XP.

RhynoCZ wrote:
But I don't think that was the reason of my failure. The MB is just dead and I'm done trying. Thumbs Down

Apparently capacitors dry out or something, same thing happened to my other (old) AMD system.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, capacitors do dry out and/or leak, but looking at the board, there's quite a few of them and I can't be arsed to identify and replace them all. The odds are they are fine and my issue is cracked solder somewhere on the board or a modern PSU just can't power the board/cpu up properly. I could get the green power LED on, but that's about all I could do with it. I tried to reset the BIOS with the jumpers, read a lot about it online, but all that was no good.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 05 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
A bit too new I'm afraid, getting 98 running on it will be a pain if possible at all.


I've had 95 running on it.
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fatjames
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PostPosted: 09:09 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

8.4gb hdd.. that's modern..

Regarding your USB drivers. Might be worth getting a cheap PCI USB, it'll likely come with a driver on disc.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just drivers for flash drives I sorted it now I found my old USB floppy disc and wrote the driver to that and installed it, flash drives work and I have updated my Graphics Chipset and Sound Drivers.

I actually forgot how good win98 is. I thought it would be horrible it's quite usable Laughing it seems nippy too

Also 8.3 is more than enough when the games you install essentially run from the CD, I installed A10 cuba last night, 30mb install!
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
I actually forgot how good win98 is. I thought it would be horrible it's quite usable Laughing it seems nippy too

It's one of my favourite OS behind Win 7. I recently had to reinstall XP for something, forgot just how atrocious that thing was.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:


Riva TNT2


Had that card myself in my 2nd PC serial linked to my main PC which ran a Voodoo 3000 AGP Laughing Cool
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:


Riva TNT2


Had that card myself in my 2nd PC serial linked to my main PC which ran a Voodoo 3000 AGP Laughing Cool

Got that in the Sempron system currently. It's the recently retired 'family' computer, that'll probably end up in the bin soon.
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P.
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
It's the recently retired 'family' computer, that'll probably end up in the bin soon.


How fucking recent, sempron bro. Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
M.C wrote:
It's the recently retired 'family' computer, that'll probably end up in the bin soon.


How fucking recent, sempron bro. Laughing

I know. It was my PC back in 2004 when it had a different mobo and Athlon XP CPU in there.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 06 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:


Riva TNT2


Had that card myself in my 2nd PC serial linked to my main PC which ran a Voodoo 3000 AGP Laughing Cool


Voodoo did only 16-bit colour, that's why I insisted on getting the TNT2, the true 32-bit colour card! I was just a stupid child, that read PC magazines where they made it clear, that 32-bit colour is a must have feature. Razz It's quite funny, as back then I wouldn't have noticed. It's only now, watching some youtube comparison videos, where you can tell the difference in picture quality and performance.

The downside of my choice was no 3dfx support, obviously. But back then I didn't care much about such things. OpenGL and Direct3D worked well enough.

I recently started to watch some youtube channels about retro gaming and hardware and I find it as fascinating as when this HW was the cutting edge technology.
Check: PhilsComputerLab (youbook, retro HW reviews: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj9IJ2QvygoBJKSOnUgXIRA NOT SPAM)
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Serendipity
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff. What sort of games are you planning to run? I find that most of my favourite nostalgic PC games will still run on my current PC. The main thing I have issues with is widescreen support for some old titles. So you can't beat a good old 4:3 monitor for max compatibility, unless you can put up with a bit of stretching.

I also had a Tiny, purchased around 1999. A 600Mhz Pentium III that I still have in the loft. I upgraded it a little until it had 128MB of ram and a PCI graphics card (no AGP slot) and it was just about up to running Quake III on a LAN.

After I started working in IT I kept it running as part of a lab and games machine, imaging it with Ghost for whatever role was required until around 2006 when I moved house and started using virtual machines rather than having a spare room full of PCs.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serendipity wrote:
I moved house and started using virtual machines rather than having a spare room full of PCs.

But the ladies love it Tut Tut
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virtual Machines do not run games well/at all.

Dosbox works to an extent and GOG is pretty good a providing well set up classics but they do not have everything especially some of the more obscure games. There is also something to be said about Original hardware.

I also come software that requires a Parallel port and will not run on NT. I have other things that require 16 bit processing which 64bit stuff does not run full stop.


I had some deliveries last week.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170708_125248_zpsjllpbshl.jpg?t=1499703448

Not pictured is the 2x128mb RAM sticks, and CF to IDE adaptor.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170708_131006_zpslezstror.jpg?t=1499703558

There are the 2 cards side by side, the new one is a Radeon 9700, it was bought as untested from ebay.

I fitted the parts (not the CF/IDE yet) and booted up...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170708_133355_zps6cnmzypu.jpg

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170708_133400_zpszaort6d5.jpg

Oh dear...

Looks like the graphics card was knackered. I was pretty miffed as I had I bought this before seeing an auction for a brand new 9800 pro and it only went for like £15 delivered Evil or Very Mad

I'd always wanted to try the reflowing the solder trick... I stripped the Heatsink and fan off, good job too the thermal paste was like plastic it was set hard and wasn't moving I tried acetone but it wouldn't move. In the end I used a plastic scraper and literally chipped it off Laughing


https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170708_135300_zpspt8dwgcp.jpg

Anyway 10 minutes at 200c and it looks slightly browner...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170708_140545_zpszuwz3euv.jpg


ANNNNDDDDDDDD.......

It works!

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170708_140545_zpszuwz3euv.jpg

I got 2506 Futuremarks Cool

I had fun and games setting up the LAN card. It installed fine but I couldn't connect to the network. I assumed Win98 needing setting up. I started doing all the TCP/IP stuff. I then Changed the LAN cable incase it was that. All it it probably took 30 minutes before I realised I hadn't pushed the cable in far enough both times Laughing

I haven't actually played anything properly on it yet Laughing But I have been enjoying setting it up!

The Joystick is the original MS Sidewinder it's in really good shape it doesn't look used. I pluged it in and set it up in control panel and calibrated it it seems good. I'm hoping to bust out some X-Wing vs Tie Fighter/Wing Commander in the next few days.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 13 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a load of old 95/98 games in boxes in the loft still if theyre any good?

also have 95 + 98 install disks with serials which i found last week

so much nostalgia
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 13 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still got a load as well Shifty
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 14 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrippleTron wrote:
I have a load of old 95/98 games in boxes in the loft still if theyre any good?

also have 95 + 98 install disks with serials which i found last week

so much nostalgia


That would be cool, let me know what you have and what you want for them Thumbs Up
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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