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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:57 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: Police Fed: no 999 speeding or going through red lights |
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Huh, I missed this one, but rank and file Englandwalesshire coppers have been advised to not exceed speed limits, blow through reds or do anything that would be considered careless driving by a non police driver:
Ignore the source, read the content: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3914169/police-federation-letter-driving-emergency-report/
They make a very fair point. The police have a defence to specific offences, but not to all, and not to the general charge of careless driving. And that offence does make no distinction about the driver.
I doubt it'll result in much change in behaviour, but drive-to-rule would be an interesting development. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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arry |
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arry Super Spammer
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Tracer1234 |
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Tracer1234 World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:55 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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arry wrote: | LOLZ.
It does raise a good point doesn't it. Careless Driving - not showing reasonable consideration for others. Problem is if you exempt them, you get a traffic copper who can do WTF he likes with no comeback. If you change the wording, it protects the average Joe from prosecution instead?
Reminds me - was watching an old episode of Traffic Cops or some such the other night. Couple of bacon in an unmarked Veccy park up in a layby off a pin straight dual carriageway and await a victim - duly clock an Audi TT doing 110+; fair dos.
What's not fair dos in my book, is after that, Bacon 1 gets back in the car and takes a while to do it, whilst Bacon 2 is busy getting his own voiceover about how he's MegaTron of the driving world and has earned the nickname Stig. Stiggy then sets off in hot pursuit down the dark country lanes that the guy has disappeared off down into. Some of the driving is pretty balls out, including quite a lot of off-siding.
They then apprehend the guy and state that they'd gone hell for leather for over 10 minutes trying to catch up with him.
So, 110+ on a pin straight dual carriageway warrants 10 minutes of high speed dark country lane-bashing to catch him, when they already had the registration number? |
Think I've seen that one, they took a lot of risks catching him. You do see some unbelievable driving from coppers not in an emergency, I saw an unmarked car doing about 60 (in a 20 zone), down the wrong side of the road and through a crossing, to then pull up outside the station and drop off his mate. Also followed police riders speeding and overtaking without blues and twos, and often see coppers put on their lights to get through junctions (then turn them off again). |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 13:18 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Mmm, I'm in two minds about it.
The protections for coppers on a genuine shout are fuzzy, and they are being done for it. It's also reasonable to note that if it's not careful and considerate for Joe Public to do something, then it's not careful and considerate for a copper to do it. Just for example, ramming a pikey off a stolen bikey.
On the other hand of my mind, there are plenty of coppers who already set an awful example and take liberties that would give a #BahkLahfer pause.
Until they solve the latter, I'm not going to be too fussed about the former. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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BTTD |
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BTTD World Chat Champion
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barrkel |
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barrkel World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 15:23 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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That article is a PR exercise designed to drum up support for a police-specific carveout on new driving legislation. It's a bit of a phoney war.
Police want exemption from careless driving, and are trying to do it with a work to rule protest. They're threatening politicians with the blame should consequential worse reaction times lead to a bad outcome in a future emergency incident. ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:51 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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tl;dw something about an American copper jumping lights to get to a fight
It was strange when a police car nearly rear-ended me on the bike (and I fell over ), they felt ok telling me it was responding to a domestic violence call. I'd have thought an emergency call's an emergency call, you'd drive to the same standards |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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TaffyTDM |
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TaffyTDM Spanner Monkey
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Tierbirdy |
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Tierbirdy Spanner Monkey
Joined: 25 Jun 2014 Karma :
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Posted: 22:23 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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my 2p as a blue light trained paramedic who spends a lot of time whizzing about on blue lights:
People complain a lot about emergency vehicles using lights in what seems to them a strange manner, and looks like "omg they just used them to clear 100ft of traffic they didnt want to sit in or a red light they didnt want to wait at!"
- False.
99% of the time you see this happen its because they recieved a 999 call, activated for it, and then got cancelled for either a higher priority event/nearer unit becoming available. Normally when this happens to me I'll turn off down a side road then turn all the lights etc. off so people dont see it and get so upset about it. Also every single vehicle of ours, and I imagine the police to as we use a near identical system is entirely computerised and monitored by the control room. Control can see exactly when we have our blue lights on, and if we're using them how we shouldnt be (e.g. trying to get back at the end of our shift and go home on time) theyll be all over that and screaming at us over the radio.
We have to treat red lights as give way signs
- true. Im not quite sure why theres any dispute over this? ("s19 Road Safety Act 2006, emergency response vehicles exemptions & non exemptions" if youre particularly bored and want a legislation quote )
Turning the lights on and off at random times
- yes we do do this, and its for a reason, normally because Joe Public panics and doesnt have a clue what to do, so they do stupid things like slam on the brakes or go rushing through a red light when they shouldnt. So often youll see an emergency vehicle hang back quite a distance and turn off the lights, so people infront dont feel pressured to do stupid things. For example coming up to a busy junction with a red light, and theres no room to make progress - hang back, kill the blues, wait for the lights to change or a gap to appear, then switch everything back on and go for it.
We have a long list of exemptions and non-exemptions from various road laws. Reading and re-reading this article Im thoroughly confused and dont understand the point of what theyre proposing.
What I was taught on my blue lights course was that the was the legislation reads regarding careless/dangerous driving is that "you must drive to a standard that is expected of a reasonable and competent driver", and because we are trained to a higher standard than most drivers, what is deemed reasonable/competent behavior by us is held to a much higher standard, so we can actually be penalised for "careless" driving whereas Joe Public who's deemed a lesser driver wouldn't be penalised for doing exactly the same thing because essentially they didn't know any better This was drilled into us time and time again as an example of why if we get caught speeding or doing something we shouldnt have when we're off duty, we're in mega-shit because we'll get the book thrown at us as we should have known better.
From reading this it seems like theyre saying the opposite, that even though police pursuit drivers are much higher standard of drivers than Joe Public, they now have to be held to the same standards as 17yr old Porscha whos just passed her driving test and out for a drive with "the girls". In which case they should be exempt from being treated like that.
To me it seems that what theyre wanting is an actual piece of legislation that says "these guys are better drivers than you and whilst it might appear careless to the layman its not" or something along those lines. |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:28 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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The police must get a lot of cancelled calls, in a very short period of time, all heading in the same direction then |
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Tierbirdy |
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Tierbirdy Spanner Monkey
Joined: 25 Jun 2014 Karma :
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Posted: 22:32 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: | The police must get a lot of cancelled calls, in a very short period of time, all heading in the same direction then |
youd be surprised, its not at all uncommon for a controller to be constantly changing the priority level of a 999 call. They dont wait for the call to be finished then dispatch units, they send the job to someone as soon as they have an address, then ask more questions as the units are running towards them. Its pretty common for a job to come down to us as a red 2 priority (8 minute immediate life threatening respsone), then as they get more details from the caller downgrade it to an amber (20 min response), then to be cancelled for a nearer unit, which then gets diverted to a different higher priority job, so it comes back to you, then it gets upgraded back to a red 2, then you're diverted to a nearer job, which gets downgraded so you get the further away higher priority job come back to you etc. etc. etc.
I think my record is 8 different job cancellations within a minute before they finally settled on a job to give us, thats a whole lot of dicking about with lights & directions and figuring out wtf youre doing. |
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arry |
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arry Super Spammer
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Tierbirdy |
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Tierbirdy Spanner Monkey
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 23:07 - 07 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Courts do tend to give credence to your Special Certificate, but a decent prosecutor (lol jk, CPS) will hammer that there is no basis for that in law. If that's what parliament meant, why didn't they, and so on.
Tierbirdy wrote: | We have to treat red lights as give way signs |
I correct myself, this is now technically correct - since TSRGD 2016, the wording for a give way for proles, or a red light for an ambulance is identical. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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M.C |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 11:06 - 08 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Two circumstances when there was no emergency when I've seen the police both speeding to absolute excess and driving in a manner that would get me hauled up in court toot-de-sweet on a careless/dangerous driving charge.
1) "Training". I live in Cumbria. Durham constabulary regularly come over here in unmarked cars and horse about the place in big subraus and suchlike. They have no blue lights on, the only idication they are a police vehicle is a fluorescent sticker in the back window reading Durham constabulary training vehicle (also two adult males in it and two rearview mirrors).
I've followed after one on the bike before today for simple trolling. Every time he put his foot down, I followed. We landed up hammering down a B-road at gotojail mph. I eventually backed off because his cornering was getting extremely raggedy and he was going to crash if we kept it up.
2) VIP escort. 100mph on a motorcycle up the inside of traffic on a 2-lane road. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Tierbirdy |
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Tierbirdy Spanner Monkey
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Tierbirdy |
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M.C |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 265 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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