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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Charlie's Army Reply with quote

This Charlie Guard thing doesn't seem to be going away, have I missed something? Chav couple have a diseased baby (very sad), instead of following medical advice they want to take the child to America, for treatment not yet tested on mice and which even the doctor pioneering the treatment has doubts about (but they have money* so he'll do it).

*chav money raised through fundraising. I guess we're ignoring all the care costs and legal fees.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40548553
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carvell
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with your sentiment.

The idea that the parents know more than all the doctors about what's best for the baby is laughable.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny how GOSH are actually fundraising ATM, but I guess they'll be painted as the villains and none of 'charlie's army' will donate (despite them keeping him alive all this time).
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infuriating news story! Such nonsense.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The condition the child has means he has significant irreversible brain damage. He cannot breathe or swallow. There is no science or medicine that can reverse damage that bad.

The poor kid is no more than a mass of cells being kept alive by machines. Worse still, he may still be able to feel pain.

The parents understandably want to do everything they can for him; any parent would fight for their child.

However what they don't seem able to accept is that he is already gone. Their child is lost to them.

They should move on now. And the Poop and Trump need to back away too.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

....aaaand another thing.....

It's a bit rich Trumpety Trump wading in when under his health reforms a child like this would have died months ago because it's parents didn't have insurance to make the hospital tills kerchinnnnng.

.......aaaand finally, the Poop. What a hypocrite. The Catholic Church has condemned millions of children over the centuries, to handicap and blighted lives through its anti-abortion stance as well as kids living in abject poverty or facing starvation. Grrrrrrrr
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
The condition the child has means he has significant irreversible brain damage. He cannot breathe or swallow. There is no science or medicine that can reverse damage that bad.

The poor kid is no more than a mass of cells being kept alive by machines. Worse still, he may still be able to feel pain.

The parents understandably want to do everything they can for him; any parent would fight for their child.

However what they don't seem able to accept is that he is already gone. Their child is lost to them.

They should move on now. And the Poop and Trump need to back away too.


that isnt true though is it, thats what the latest court hearing "is" about, there have been a few children that have recovered or the treatment has done what it says, they talk about a young girl who had the same treatment and can now ride a bike and walk etc,

One of the expert has also said that there is a chance it could work which is contrary to what was reported earlier by GOSH,
their original reason for not allowing the treatment was he was too ill too travel now,
I dont think the parents are claiming to know more then the doctors, but feel the treatment that is out there( experimental) provides hope were there is none, and with Doctors who do the testing saying it could help,


How many parents don`t really care about their children, some just see them as a way to get more dole money,
these parents do care, and wish to offer their son the best chances,

How much has this cost? . . that money could have helped a lot of other children,

It almost looks like GOSH made their mind up and did everything to make sure what they wanted happened, but at the end of the day they are their to offer the parents advice, they arent there to be God,


Look at another recent case where a Hospital said that the proton treatment was dangerous, wouldnt work etc,
that childs parents ended up in prison for a short time for trying to get their child the best treatment . . . that treatment has worked.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugeye_bob wrote:

that isnt true though is it, thats what the latest court hearing "is" about, there have been a few children that have recovered or the treatment has done what it says, they talk about a young girl who had the same treatment and can now ride a bike and walk etc,

One of the expert has also said that there is a chance it could work which is contrary to what was reported earlier by GOSH,
their original reason for not allowing the treatment was he was too ill too travel now,
I dont think the parents are claiming to know more then the doctors, but feel the treatment that is out there( experimental) provides hope were there is none, and with Doctors who do the testing saying it could help,


How many parents don`t really care about their children, some just see them as a way to get more dole money,
these parents do care, and wish to offer their son the best chances,

How much has this cost? . . that money could have helped a lot of other children,

It almost looks like GOSH made their mind up and did everything to make sure what they wanted happened, but at the end of the day they are their to offer the parents advice, they arent there to be God,


Look at another recent case where a Hospital said that the proton treatment was dangerous, wouldnt work etc,
that childs parents ended up in prison for a short time for trying to get their child the best treatment . . . that treatment has worked.

AFAIK that treatment hasn't been tested on anyone with the same condition, it sounds a bit dodgy if baby Charlie's effectively going to be a lab rat. I dunno though, I started this topic to see if there was anything deeper going on, or if they were reconsidering (his fate) due to public pressure etc.

I guess you mean the Ashya King case? Sort of remember it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32013634
Interesting line: I think we could have achieved the remission he is in now with standard radiotherapy.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugeye_bob wrote:
Look at another recent case where a Hospital said that the proton treatment was dangerous, wouldnt work etc,

No, they said that radiotherapy then chemotherapy was his best chance and he could have it right now.

His tie-dyed parents went into full auti-shrieking mode because radiation = bad, protons = healthy, kidnapped him and fled to Spain where he didn't receive any treatment.

Only after he was brought back did he eventually get packed off to Prague for proton radiation therapy, at the NHS's expense. Because as it turns out we've been paying for it since 2008 where medically indicated.

The parents then took kiddo to Spain again where he didn't get followup chemo, because, the toxins, man, the toxins. The parents claim he's tumour free, which even if true, doesn't mean that he's cancer free.

When it turned out that they'd spacked him up with the proton radiation therapy, they came back to England where they're currently moaning about the NHS not fixing the damage that their own actions caused.

You mean that case?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't a treatment for the benefit of the kid, it's a treatment for the benefit of the parents.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
....aaaand another thing.....

It's a bit rich Trumpety Trump wading in when under his health reforms a child like this would have died months ago because it's parents didn't have insurance to make the hospital tills kerchinnnnng.

.......aaaand finally, the Poop. What a hypocrite. The Catholic Church has condemned millions of children over the centuries, to handicap and blighted lives through its anti-abortion stance as well as kids living in abject poverty or facing starvation. Grrrrrrrr


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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little more info: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40552026 Does seem to be the brain damage that's the irreversible problem.

I have my doubts about these health related crowd-funding things. Sort of related, remember the Manchester bombing tattoo nonsense, they decided to give the money raised to a local mum but everyone got a bit miffed Laughing http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40198272
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is, is this morally acceptable, to torture the child like this? I mean, the current state of medical knowledge pretty much says that even if by a miracle the child started to breath on it's own, it will still be a vegetable. Brain damage isn't an illness. You can't do much about it. The best case scenario for this child is to end up a vegetable, being completely oblivious of what's going on.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Doctors have said he now cannot see, hear, move, cry or swallow and has irreversible brain damage. His lungs are only able to keep going because of the treatment he is receiving"

Surely blue juice-ing the kid would be the most humane thing to do? I would certainly prefer it if I was that fucked up
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The parents of Charlie Gard have joined supporters to deliver a petition to Great Ormond Street Hospital calling on doctors to allow the sick baby to travel to the USA for treatment.
The petition has been signed by more than 350,000 people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40548553
Presumably the issue is not about "allowing" the child to travel but either justifying his release from the care of UK doctors or financing his escorted journey to the US quacks. Maybe if the 350,000 who signed the petition had also offered a couple of quid each this last ditch attempt could have been made.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
"Doctors have said he now cannot see, hear, move, cry or swallow and has irreversible brain damage. His lungs are only able to keep going because of the treatment he is receiving"

Surely blue juice-ing the kid would be the most humane thing to do? I would certainly prefer it if I was that fucked up


That is by far the kindest thing that can be done.

Policy on this is pretty populist though. Like one baby goes to neonatal and gets hundreds of thousands spent trying to keep it alive, another gets ripped out with forceps.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Quote:
The parents of Charlie Gard have joined supporters to deliver a petition to Great Ormond Street Hospital calling on doctors to allow the sick baby to travel to the USA for treatment.
The petition has been signed by more than 350,000 people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40548553
Presumably the issue is not about "allowing" the child to travel but either justifying his release from the care of UK doctors or financing his escorted journey to the US quacks. Maybe if the 350,000 who signed the petition had also offered a couple of quid each this last ditch attempt could have been made.


Maybe they could use some of the millions raised for the "255" Grenfel victims, there must be a fair pot there from the single royalties and the begging charities on the radio several times an hour?

Not ethnic enough?
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The parents have done themselves no flavours by teaming up with the dodgy, evangelical US nut job Patrick Mahoney. A rabid, drooling, swivel-eyed pro-lifer.

He's turning this into a religious farce and has said really inflammatory things about GOSH. He accused the hospital of not caring when the opposite is very much the case.

GOSH has fantastic reputation and is a centre of excellence for the care of children with uncommon and acute conditions. It relies on fundraising to deliver its services.

I just hope there is no reputational damage as a result of this circus. The hospital and staff don't deserve that.

I'm losing patience with this lot now. Wee Charlie should be unplugged and put on a plane so we can all forget about him.

If he survives the journey, he'll be an Americam potato, and become a medical experiment, but will relieve GOSH and the U.K. of the burden of keeping him alive.

If he dies, which he will, no-one will be surprised and Mum & Dad can do the chat show and misery book circuit.

Kerchinnnnng
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
"Doctors have said he now cannot see, hear, move, cry or swallow and has irreversible brain damage. His lungs are only able to keep going because of the treatment he is receiving"

Surely blue juice-ing the kid would be the most humane thing to do? I would certainly prefer it if I was that fucked up

Same, I find it truly terrifying that they'd try to keep you alive as a vegetable. With the Charlie Gard case they don't even know if he's in pain Neutral

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Quote:
The parents of Charlie Gard have joined supporters to deliver a petition to Great Ormond Street Hospital calling on doctors to allow the sick baby to travel to the USA for treatment.
The petition has been signed by more than 350,000 people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40548553
Presumably the issue is not about "allowing" the child to travel but either justifying his release from the care of UK doctors or financing his escorted journey to the US quacks. Maybe if the 350,000 who signed the petition had also offered a couple of quid each this last ditch attempt could have been made.

They've come up with over a million for the treatment, but as Tracey says he probably wouldn't survive the journey.
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is, we keep putting stupid people in front of the camera, which in turns riles up more stupid people into protesting frenzies based on what the media tells them to think rather than actual educated opinions.

Yawn.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
They've come up with over a million for the treatment, but as Tracey says he probably wouldn't survive the journey.

If there is nothing GOSH can do for him except switch off life support and let nature take its course I wonder why the parents can't be indulged with a donation-funded trip across the Atlantic even if it will certainly lead to the same end?

M.C wrote:
treatment not yet tested on mice and which even the doctor pioneering the treatment has doubts about

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
If he survives the journey, he'll be an American potato,

Or he'll end up with super-powers.
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Mahoney.. Heard this moron on the radio the other day.

What a focused, ignorant, slimy wing nut.

He evades anything but the question he wants to answer and puts the parents judgement before everyone and anyone else because obviously their god given right to 'make the final decision' should top all professionals, people who's perspectives aren't understandably clouded by emotion and the actual patient who may suffer greatly from these decisions...

This little baby is brain damaged to the point he cannot even perform the most basic of functions to survive (ie breath), let alone see/hear/move/swallow or even qualify for being 'conscious' and yet his little body is pumped full of morphine incase the little fella is wracked with pain day in and day out. There is absolutely no suggestion from anyone to date they they can do anything to 'heal' the 'irreversible brain damage' so even if they could 'fix' his mitochondrial disorder, he'll still be a vegetable?

The American's who initially offered the treatment, after they had received charlies records revoked their offer stating the child was too sick and agreed that although it MAY help the mitochondrial disorder it will do nothing to help the brain damage and could lead to unnecessary suffering, but Charlies parents don't seem to want people to know this...

The only reason to keep this child alive is to sooth the parents conscience, at a cost of 10,000 to the NHS, a bed that could be helping someones sick child who HAS a chance and the potential the child is going to survive a little longer but in pain and suffering.... this is merely a perverse exercise in morbid entertainment of a pair of chavy child parents who cannot accept whats happened to their child and their attitude of 'them vs us' with the hospital that has kept their child alive and worked to help him for all this time displays their utterly juvenile attitude.

'Charlies Army' should be almost as ashamed of themselves as Charlies parents for the way they've spread mis-information to try and ply their will by invoking public outrage.

Since when did 'stupid' gain so much traction Shocked.
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:
Since when did 'stupid' gain so much traction Shocked.

July 5th 1948.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
If there is nothing GOSH can do for him except switch off life support and let nature take its course I wonder why the parents can't be indulged with a donation-funded trip across the Atlantic even if it will certainly lead to the same end?

Because every terminally ill kids parent will expect the same. I don't want to sound like a c**t but it costs a small fortune keeping a child in intensive care, plus I wonder who paid for all those court cases? Skatefreak put it brilliantly, the options seem to be best case scenario he lives a little longer as a vegetable (possibly in pain), or dies during experimental treatment in unknown levels of pain, or dies on the journey there. The hospital want him to die peacefully in their care, the parents originally wanted to take him home to die in pain.

Quote:
Or he'll end up with super-powers.

I was thinking about this last night, if his genetic mutation lead to the ability to explode other peoples minds, it would be successful and the 16 known people with the condition worldwide would be our rightful overlords. As it's nature has had an unsuccessful experiment, highlighted by the fact he'd be dead already if born at a different time or in a different part of the world. Nature can be a bitch sometimes.
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:


Since when did 'stupid' gain so much traction Shocked.


Ever since the media decided it would be good idea to stick cameras in their faces and validate them, making them think there opinion is wanted / relevant.
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