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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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 Posted: 15:45 - 14 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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Wonder if driver only trains will still be a thing when one gets bombed and the fleeing passengers get mowed down/electrocuted due to nobody there being able to Marshal the incident safely?
I also wonder if bnp72 can ever admit when he's wrong, having made a fool of himself in this very thread he tries to pass the buck to someone else. 
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Posted: 16:26 - 14 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | Wonder if driver only trains will still be a thing when one gets bombed and the fleeing passengers get mowed down/electrocuted due to nobody there being able to Marshal the incident safely? |
I'm not that convinced one driver will make much of a difference to 15 carriages full of commuters. If they're too thick to work out which one is the live rail, then maybe its for the greater good.
Anyway, the dispute over safety was one of the guard changing roles to become a onboard assistants, serving the passengers, rather than a bloke who sits reading the paper between stations. This has nothing to do with driverless trains, only driver only operated ones.
| Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | I also wonder if bnp72 can ever admit when he's wrong, having made a fool of himself in this very thread he tries to pass the buck to someone else. |
I have no idea what your dribbling on about.
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| Mawsley |
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Mawsley
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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M.C
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Posted: 05:16 - 15 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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I'm no expert but I reckon train passengers are relatively unlikely to get electrocuted if getting off a crashed / snack barred train what with electric trains being powered by overhead cables.  |
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| Posted: 09:01 - 15 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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By getting so mad about the existence of unions, you only show how one-sided and biased you are.
In the free-market capitalist world, employment is nothing other than using whatever strength you can muster to prop yourself up in the bargain between your employer and your own employability. The ideal would be an agreement with mutual benefit for both sides, but the reality is often more cutthroat where one side has way more leverage than the other. Sometimes it's the evil corporate capitalist employer; sometimes it's the unions.
But the only side you ever complain about is the unions.
It's absolute nonsense to say that a group of workers cannot freely organise themselves into a collective in order to increase their bargaining power against an employer, while at the same time being of the opinion that the collective bargaining power of the managers, executives and shareholders who make recruitment/employment/salary decisions on behalf of their employer is A-okay.
Your anti-left rhetoric means you're surely something of a free-market right-winger yourself, yet you don't seem to have any understanding of what this 'freedom' should entail. Unions are unions, as corporations are corporations, as businesses are businesses, as people are people, all with the freedom to act as they wish within moral reason, at least in the free-marketeer's mind. So why the selective hatred? |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Posted: 09:48 - 15 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | By getting so mad about the existence of unions, you only show how one-sided and biased you are. |
It's not their existence that people dislike, it's the holding everyone else to ransom that people dislike.
And the way they have a habit of destroying industries is something else people dislike about them.
| Lord Percy wrote: | In the free-market capitalist world, employment is nothing other than using whatever strength you can muster to prop yourself up in the bargain between your employer and your own employability. |
They're using whatever strength they've got to prop themselves up, the only real winners are the people at the top of the unions pulling the strings. All the people in the union don't matter, they're just pawns.
| Lord Percy wrote: | The ideal would be an agreement with mutual benefit for both sides, but the reality is often more cutthroat where one side has way more leverage than the other. Sometimes it's the evil corporate capitalist employer; sometimes it's the unions. |
It's always the unions when they've got anything to do with something.
| Lord Percy wrote: | But the only side you ever complain about is the unions.
It's absolute nonsense to say that a group of workers cannot freely organise themselves into a collective in order to increase their bargaining power against an employer, while at the same time being of the opinion that the collective bargaining power of the managers, executives and shareholders who make recruitment/employment/salary decisions on behalf of their employer is A-okay. |
They haven't organised themselves, they're letting the union bosses organise them.
| Lord Percy wrote: | Your anti-left rhetoric means you're surely something of a free-market right-winger yourself, yet you don't seem to have any understanding of what this 'freedom' should entail. Unions are unions, as corporations are corporations, as businesses are businesses, as people are people, all with the freedom to act as they wish within moral reason, at least in the free-marketeer's mind. So why the selective hatred? |
Leftism is a disease. |
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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Posted: 10:45 - 15 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| Ste wrote: |
It's not their existence that people dislike, it's the holding everyone else to ransom that people dislike.
And the way they have a habit of destroying industries is something else people dislike about them. |
All people?
| Quote: | They're using whatever strength they've got to prop themselves up, the only real winners are the people at the top of the unions pulling the strings. |
Total bollocks, union actions aim to make gains for all members (at least "in theory", much like any economic or political argument no matter which side your'e on). This thread is proof of that. ASLEF was fighting for a pay rise for its members, not just its leaders.
| Quote: | All the people in the union don't matter, they're just pawns. |
And if this is really the case, what's the alternative? Become a one-man powerless pawn for your employer instead?
| Quote: | It's always the unions when they've got anything to do with something. |
Yep so let's ignore things like Sports Direct, zero-hour contracts and that BHS bloke who ruined a ton of pensions while walking away with billions for himself.
You're showing the one-sidedness that I just alluded to.
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They haven't organised themselves, they're letting the union bosses organise them. |
As opposed to what... letting their employer and/or shareholders organise them instead? Do you not see the point about it being a choice in personal and collective bargaining power, and nothing more?
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Leftism is a disease. |
Right then |
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| Wobbling Dog |
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Wobbling Dog
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| Posted: 12:01 - 15 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 12:43 - 15 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | ASLEF was fighting for a pay rise for its members, not just its leaders. |
The offer on the table was for £33 an hour for a bunch of work-shy unskilled prima donnas who could be replaced with any dosser straight off the dole queue and should be replaced with Friend Computer.
Demanding more than that was beyond unreasonable, it was deranged.
Or it would have been if the goal was more pay.
So, what's behind it? Are they deranged? Or did they want to provoke a series of strikes, paralyse London, and bring down the elected government in an anti-democratic coup at the behest of their lizard-folk communist masters?
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Posted: 14:16 - 15 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | All people? |
At least everyone who has been affected by tube strikes, rail strikes or any of their other strikes will be fed up with the unions holding the public to ransom.
I expect that what little public support and sympathy Southern Rail might have had when it all started is now long gone.
| Lord Percy wrote: | Total bollocks, union actions aim to make gains for all members (at least "in theory", much like any economic or political argument no matter which side your'e on). This thread is proof of that. ASLEF was fighting for a pay rise for its members, not just its leaders. |
The "in theory" part is quite important. The people at the top of the unions win whatever the outcome of the strikes is so they're the real winners.
| Lord Percy wrote: | And if this is really the case, what's the alternative? Become a one-man powerless pawn for your employer instead? |
Accepting the offer of £33/hour is an alternative.
| Lord Percy wrote: | Yep so let's ignore things like Sports Direct, zero-hour contracts and that BHS bloke who ruined a ton of pensions while walking away with billions for himself. |
Ah yes, Comrade Corbyn will save everyone from zero hour contracts. Say, is it still a labour run council that has the most staff of any council that's on zero hour contracts?
| Lord Percy wrote: | As opposed to what... letting their employer and/or shareholders organise them instead? Do you not see the point about it being a choice in personal and collective bargaining power, and nothing more? |
Well companies are answerable to their shareholders. There's nothing wrong with a choice in personal and collective bargaining power but there is more to it than that, namely holding the public to hostage.
| Lord Percy wrote: | Right then |
It's better to be far right than to be far wrong.  |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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M.C
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Johnnythefox
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 15:22 - 15 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | Because I wish them well in maximising their earnings |
Who's paying those earnings right now?
| Jewlio Rides Again wrote: | people who [...] have a job |
Huh, so you do know.
Corrvpt scvm, they can afford it. If not, they can just go on strike and demand higher wages too. If we all down tools, productivity will skyrocket and we'll all be rich.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 289 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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is daft enough to pay them that much then fair enough, (jackpot!) but to get all arsey and demanding about it seems hard to justify. You'd think they'd just get laughed at. Union blackmail, I know.
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