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looking for a 125 to do approx 100 miles per day

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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 15 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is whatever bike he buys will get you from point A-B with the correct looking after and maintenance, and if it can be serviced by someone that knows what they are doing and can get the spare parts needed ad and when.

As for avoiding scooters, well it sounds to me like OP is just starting out into motorcycling and wants a conventional bike to feel like a conventional biker. The rest of us that have had licences for years and ridden all manner of bikes would approach this differently, but you can't tell someone that hasn't been there and seen how meh the world of riding bikes is and how different machines are not the be all and end all, or that there's downsides to everything, not just ideal want to believe everything is as good as it sounds in cold shitty reality.

I'd be thinking about the journey, where am I going to park, where can I put my kit, and how can I keep stuff warm dry and secure etc.

I'd then look around for a bike, in a rush it would have to be locally, and I'd consider anything that looks like a candidate from a condition point of view. I'd even be erring towards scooters even though I'd consider a bike too, because the ride to work is never gonna be fun or a great adventure or something I'd always wanted to do. I'd want an easy to use/maintain tool for the job and that's it really.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 15 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

100 miles a day, on almost any bike will be a 'ball-ache'.
If you are a Learner, who knows nothing about bikes, and hasn't passed a test, or even a new rider who's just passed tests after a quick crash course to crash quick; trying to tackle a daily commute, in likely the most demanding, hazard strewn traffic as one of the most vulnerable road users, is a baptism of fire, likely to end in tears.

I ca absolutely understand the imperative; got new job, need to get to work; dont have money, need wheels cheap and quick; grab 125 'os dont need to do tests, do CBT in a week-end... Hmmm you do know many DONT actually complete and get their CBT in a day, dot you? That could hamper things a bit? But even so..... you wobble out on L's nto hazard strewn roads, to try doing what, 2000 miles a month?

Learn to walk before you try and run.. back up, baby steps.

The BIKE is actually the very LAST thing on the list of stuff you need.

1/ Provisional Licence
2/ CBT to validate provisional licence and be a 'Learner' on L's. And L's is to LEARN and practice for tests, not get to and from work, dodging them.
3/ LOCKS... bikes get nicked.... no point buying one to leave it lying around for a tea-leaf to take off your hands before you get chance to make use of it.
4/ Riding gear; Hat gloves, water-proofs.
5/ Tax and Insuance
6/ THEN you may start looking for bikes with any cash you have left.... which probably begs some 'hassle' and expense to get to, look at and do a deal on anything worth buying, before some-one with more money or optimism gets there first.

THEN... you have to be able to run the thing.... 100mpg in the specs looks really atractive, and like you will hardly have to pay for petrol... but you will.... and ore; you will have to pay quite a lot for servicing and maintenance.

2000Miles a month.... THAT is the major service interval on most motorcycles; 125's are often half that; that sort of mileage on a generic chinky bike that are built down to a quality for low labour cost, high maintenance expectation 'developing' economy markets, will beg almost DAILY attension, from you, with spanners.

On CBT you will be taght the pre-ride checks and expected user adjustments, like checking the oil; YOU will be doing that twice a day; you will e doing an oil change once a week; you will be checking your chain tension twice a day; you will likely have to adjust your chain tension two or three times a week; on top of that there will be frequent periodic adjustment of things like the clutch cable, the brake adjustment.. and THAT is the ase line for a fairly new Japanese branded motorcycle.

Anything older, or chinese, that is of lower standard or degraded by age and use, will be finding faults and niggles to beg even MORE frequent and demanding 'maintenance' from bolts shaking loose and needing checking and tightening, through to tyres wearing out, brake pads wearing out, clutch plates wearing out; fork seals needing replacement; cables stretching, bulbs blowing etc etc etc.

Do you enjoy playing with spanners? Do you have the time to play with spanners? Do you have the KNOW HOW to play with spanners?

I say it time and time again; IF you know enough to LIVE with a Chinese motorcycle you probably know enough NOT to buy one.

They are cheap brand new; but in the long run, early life deprecation and the higher maintenance demands on them oft mean that long term, they actually cost more than a Japanese bike, to NOT deliver a full quota of barely adequate performance, and beg a lot more hassle, and trouble, to get even THAT, whilst NOT actually saving any money for it.

Bought 2nd hand; new bike depreciation paid by first owner; you might save a chunk of up-front, to get ALL the problems that vexed first owner, to put right before you start; and STILL have high ongoing maintenance costs and be chucking good money on poor bike whilst about it.

And at 500 miles a week? You DO know that many 125's are scrap before they have covered 20ooo miles don't you? Bult down to a price from the start, offering barely adequate performance encouraging over enthusiastic new riders to try thrashing them the while while to get anywhere, whilst knowing no better, not dong any basic routine maintenance until something stops working....

EVEN f you bought brand new, and even if you got clued up on looking after a little bike, AND you were diligent about the maintenance; that sort of mileage is STILL likely to kill a 125 in a year!!! 25ooo miles!

Don't sound 'too' hgh compared to 12K per year average expectation for a car expected to last 100-200K miles.... BUT average annual miles for a motorcycle is barely 3ooo a year, and YOU are planning on trying to do damn ear that much a month.....

On L-Plates.... after a few hours being taught 'The Basics'.....

50 miles each way a day; in UK traffic you will be lucky to average much more than 30mph, if that, particularly if any of the route is through town.

You are looking at around 3 hours of travel time per day; almost half as much time on top of the time you spend at work; half of it at the beginning when you are least awake and alert; to contend with cut-throat commuters out to kill you, BEFORE dealing with 'the boss'; the other half, after days work, when you are tired, stressed and dealt with 'the boss' and have to deal with them rads all over.....

Half a day, 12 hours, getting to and doing 'work'; to get home; knackered, stressed, fit for nothing but to grab something to eat, grab a bath, and go to bed to do all over tomorrow. If you are lucky, you may get enough time to zonk out to an episode of Game of Thrones or 'something'... your 'LIFE' will shrink to a very small existance, in which there is little room for anything but, work... and getting to and from work.... and WEEKENDS! Oh shit... sorry, no cant go out, sorry, cant come shopping, sorry, cant do something with the kids.... GOT to go service THE BIKE.

THIS is what you are inadvertently setting yourself up for; and I would presume with absolutely NO IDEA of the 'reality', looking at the matter prima-fascia, work, get to work, cheap way to work.. whats cheap and easy... DIVE IN... learn the hard way.

I REALLY don't think you have even the SLIGHTEST inkling of what you are letting yourself in for; and starting from the very bottom of the learning curve, you are setting yourself up for a fall, one way or another, as that learning starts to 'bite'.

What bike?

Lol.

PRETTY much irrelevant here and now! There is almost NO 'good' choice, just a plethora of bad ones! And in them; practical ad ecconomic differences between them and how bad a choice they may be pale, in the potential pitfalls of 'the plan' as a whole.

25K miles in a year? On a 125 on L's! You WILL be lucky to get that far on almost ANYTHING, fresh off the stops.

A YBR 125 is the bench mark, easiest to live with, all-round most ecconomical 125 Learner/commuter... but 25K miles in a year, you will likely kill one before the warranty runs out!

Cheap 2nd hand, pre-abused chink? Lol! You'd be lucky to last the month, before you were in the work-shop section, moaning about mechanics not wanting to toucuh it, and asking why it kept dying on you after fifteen minutes on the main road, asking what a tappet was, ad why you need adjust them, and then how.

My advice; split out the plan; you want to learn to ride a motorbike; go learn to ride a motorbike. ONE plan, and limit to that.

Want to get to work? Well, you don't have a motorbike; what else can you do? Use a car? Train? Bus? Get digs near work? Find work-mate with a spare room? WHATEVER...

Here and now is, you are looking at a little motorbike, that is barely able to pull its own weight, to do SO much more, and provide panacea solution to your problem... and its a recipe for disaster... you are just asking FAR more of a little bike than it's likely to be able to deliver, EVEN if you were clued up and a bit more conscientious of what you were asking of it, AND able to give it best chance by pulling some of the weight yourself to give it a chance.... but you aren't you are asking even more if it, expecting to learn as you go.... which you would, quickly, or just give up.

Stop panicking, stop grasping at straws, and 'HOPES' you can find a way to make things work; certainly take a long cold hard look at whether a 125 has the slightest HOPE of being even part of a proper solution to this problem, let alone pinning your hopes on it being one in its entirety; and back up and start at the beginning with the FIRST thing on that list, provisional licence & CBT to validate it, not the last, the bike you MIGHT ride, IF you get o with CBT, fnd you can ride a bike, IF you find you actually enjoy riding a bike, and IF you get the DL196 to let you do so; IF you can then get the secourty to keep hold of one; IF yu can get all the gear to ride one; IF you can then actually get your hands on one, and then MORE IFS.. you can look after it and keeping it working, AND If you can hack that daily run, and IF you and hack that daily run, and IF you can dodge the SMIDSYs, ad IF you can avoid crashing out, or sezing up, AND If you ca hack that, day in day out, not having a life between riding to work, doing work, riding home, east, sleep repeat...

Yo have SO MANY 'ifs' i that scenario.. 'IF' a YBR would be 'better' than a Lexomo, or 'IF' a Veradaro might be better than a YBR, IF a second hand bike has been properly looked after may be as good as another, or IF a new chik may be as good as a 2nd hand jap....

Its a house of cards, BUILT on IFS... unknowns, and that is on a foundation of unknowns as you are a LEARNER who hasn't even done CBT yet!!!!

Back up; start at the beginning. and that isn't even at the top of the list of how to get a bike on the road; its "How can I get to work?"

Start there; No 'IFs'... here and ow you don't have a licence entitlement to ride a 125 on L's. You don't have a 125 you could ride on L's.. so how ELSE can you get to and from work?

THAT is your start point, and better to ask that question NOW, before you start, than in a couple of weeks time, when you are supposed to be at work, and you are woderng how the heck you will get to work, when you haven't completed CBT, or you haven't found a bike, or you have completed CBT, and found a bike, and got to work on it twice... and its now raning and miserable, or the bikes playing up, or you have fallen off, or been knocked off.. or or or or... may of the IFS have stuck a bludy great monkey wrench in the works, and the 'risks' you took blindly have gone against you... what then?

And if I have ONE bit of advice for you, when it comes to two-wheels its DON'T RUSH.. rushing be fast way to hurt when it comes to bikes; whether that is in the riding of them, or in the procuring of them, or the fixing and fetling of them;

Don't stick all your eggs in one basket, and dont cot the chickens before they have hatched and all that sort of stuff.

Your aspirations hang a HELL of a lot on a little bike, of very limited capability likely very unable to fulfill them, let alone fulfill them well.

Its a half plan; in which you are looking at the gables before you have considered the foundations, very very LIKELY to fall down on you...

Split it out; needs and wants; ifs and buts; Here and now, with what you can count on how can you get to work? No 'IF's...
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 15 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

nikkow1 wrote:
Yes there is a place very near by that sells and services them, actually told me today if I could get a cheap one they can look after it for me

How much do they charge per hour?
500 miles a week? You'll be booking it in once a week, for at least a minor service; maybe an hours work-shop time? £50 a pop?
Every two weeks, it will beg a major service; probably two hours shop time; £100?
That's $300 a month, half what you expect to pay for 2nd hand chink bike, 'just' for the routine stuff on the service schedule, let alone anything that's 'wrong' before you buy it; or goes wrong after....
Yeah.. with that sort of cash-cow, I bet they would tell you 'no problems, we can look after it for you!" as they saw the dollar signs ringing up before their eyes, under the "Got anuva one 'ere" thinks bubble!
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terrytibbs
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 15 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
100 miles a day, on almost any bike will be a 'ball-ache'.


For you maybe


Teflon-Mike wrote:
tackle a daily commute, in likely the most demanding, hazard strewn traffic as one of the most vulnerable road users, is a baptism of fire, likely to end in tears.


Its the road system, not Mosul - unless the op is commuting through central London


Teflon-Mike wrote:

The BIKE is actually the very LAST thing on the list of stuff you need.

1/ Provisional Licence
2/ CBT to validate provisional licence and be a 'Learner' on L's. And L's is to LEARN and practice for tests, not get to and from work, dodging them.
3/ LOCKS... bikes get nicked.... no point buying one to leave it lying around for a tea-leaf to take off your hands before you get chance to make use of it.
4/ Riding gear; Hat gloves, water-proofs.
5/ Tax and Insuance
6/ THEN you may start looking for bikes with any cash you have left.... which probably begs some 'hassle' and expense to get to, look at and do a deal on anything worth buying, before some-one with more money or optimism gets there first.


Is it state the obvious day every day in which ever alternative plane of reality you inhabit

Teflon-Mike wrote:

2000Miles a month.... THAT is the major service interval on most motorcycles; 125's are often half that;


Servicing a 125 four stroke single is really only a few steps above mechano levels of complexity

Teflon-Mike wrote:

Do you enjoy playing with spanners? Do you have the time to play with spanners? Do you have the KNOW HOW to play with spanners?


Do you?

Teflon-Mike wrote:

50 miles each way a day; in UK traffic you will be lucky to average much more than 30mph, if that, particularly if any of the route is through town.


Given you know nothing about the OP's route there is no way you can state that with any accuracy

Teflon-Mike wrote:

25K miles in a year? On a 125 on L's! You WILL be lucky to get that far on almost ANYTHING, fresh off the stops.


There are a large number of ex and current couriers who would snigger at that statement
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 15 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Please don't buy Chinese. ......


Nonsense, Chituma was my first ever motorbike, I'd never done any mechanical work on a motorbike before, did my CBT in 1 day, the first day I rode a bike, excluding the handful of times I'd ridden pillion ..

If you can maintain a push bike, it's by no means a giant leap to be able to look after a simple 125. It's even easier now, as there are so many tutorials online if you get stuck, I relied on a Haynes CG125 Manual, and a bit of nouse. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to keep a cheap & cheerful 125 on the road and running fine, even at 500 miles or more a week !!
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nikkow1
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 17 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks to all for taking the time to reply here, especially Teflon mike for going into such detail.

Someone put it that I had seen the herald and liked the look of it, looking for endorsement on here - you were probably right but after reading these replies and advice from others I know personally I think I will look at something different.

In terms of jumping in the deep end without much clue about what I am doing - again you are probably right. But CBT is booked and I do intend to start with a 125 to get to grips with riding. I will take heed of more experienced advice and probably won't look to do the commute every day to start with, I do have a car after all; I can just see myself being stuck in non moving traffic jams for hours with the route I have.

It is interesting to hear both sides of the debate and again I can only thank you all for trying to help this clueless newbie out. Hopefully one day I can pass on some advice
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 17 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't sweat it too much, it's all good laughs and experiences. There's a chap on here that took a Chinese made Sinnis Trackstar to 44,000 miles before (IIRC) he ripped the sump off on a mini roundabout. That's pretty good going by budget 125 standards.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 17 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

nikkow1 wrote:

In terms of jumping in the deep end without much clue about what I am doing - again you are probably right. But CBT is booked and I do intend to start with a 125 to get to grips with riding. I will take heed of more experienced advice and probably won't look to do the commute every day to start with, I do have a car after all; I can just see myself being stuck in non moving traffic jams for hours with the route I have.


I sometimes use the wife's car to commute to/from work, I'm only about 20-30 miles from home to work from one side of Manchester out in the sticks to the giant industrial estate on the other side. On a good run in the car I'm a similar time getting to / from as I am on the bike once taking into account getting my gear on and off and sorted.

Occasionally the route home is busier and slower than it was getting to work and the car can be slower than the bike even allowing for time getting gear on.

The main advantage I have is not skipping the queues but being able to take a different route and simply keep moving, sometimes, if traffic on my original route clears again then I could have picked a slower route by wanting to keep moving.

and then there are the days where nothing is moving except for me and other bikes Very Happy

As you have a car, perhaps slog it out for a week or two and see how it is, plot the route in google maps and have a look at what traffic has been like (you can toggle this on and off and set times) to get an idea as it might not be too bad and the bike can be a toy (allowing you to get a bike you want instead of one that will do the job well)
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pudder
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 18 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

nikkow1 wrote:
Just had a quick look, they do come from China apparently - the same place that produced a Suzuki GN if that means anything?


Just because a factory is capable of producing high quality products, it certainly doesn't mean they cannot also produce lower quality (lower priced) products too.

nikkow1 wrote:
But assembled in the UK, Huntingdon in fact which is 30 minutes from me.


I would assume that 'assembling' is the process of taking it out of the crate, and fitting the wheels and handlebars.
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nikkow1
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone has suggested to me that I could get a bigger sized engine bike but get it restricted, so that when the time comes and I do my full licence I wont have to change bikes. Any thoughts on this?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

nikkow1 wrote:
Someone has suggested to me that I could get a bigger sized engine bike but get it restricted, so that when the time comes and I do my full licence I wont have to change bikes. Any thoughts on this?

That someone should stick to their day job. Those windows aren't going to lick themselves clean.

Until you've got an A2 or A category on your licence (or are training while accompanied by a certified instructor, or are on test) you are limited to:

11kW power.
0.1kW / kg power-to-weight
125cc

No ifs, ands, or but-but-buts.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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nikkow1
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumbs Up Laughing thanks for that. It did sound like a bit of a ridiculous idea. Well CBT tomorrow so hopefully by the end of the week I will be on two wheels of some kind! Still no decision about which bike to get. Have seen a Suzuki van van which looks very nice and I am guessing with that manufacturer must be a decent bike?
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you looked at the service intervals or costs yet op

Most Chinese branded 125s do have a 1000 mile service interval

Personally for that milage I would be looking a something like a piaggio x8 scooter

The 125 maxis will be best weather protection you can get

But still need oil changes and will cost more labour wise as they have to strip all thee plastics to do it
Luckily this seems to be every 4000 miles
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I'd long term trust any 125 (even a modern engine design) with 4000mile oil/filter changes. They are easy to thrash and probably deserve a bit more maintenance if longevity is a concern?

It's kind of the same in that I'd trust a Honda CR500 to less maintenance than a CR80 if not ridden by an insane person that is.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
Most Chinese branded 125s do have a 1000 mile service interval

A litre of the cheapest 10W40. Given that we've seen stories of CBFs and, oh, YZFs burning through their oil and seizing up between services, I wouldn't be pushing my luck on any 125.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

nikkow1 wrote:
Thumbs Up Laughing thanks for that. It did sound like a bit of a ridiculous idea. Well CBT tomorrow so hopefully by the end of the week I will be on two wheels of some kind! Still no decision about which bike to get. Have seen a Suzuki van van which looks very nice and I am guessing with that manufacturer must be a decent bike?


It's a decent and fun bike, but it's one of the slower 125cc bikes in terms of top speed
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nikkow1
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the advice!

Well CBT passed and I think I am going to go for a CBF/CBR as there are plenty of them around at a reasonable price with low mileage and they seem to hold their resale value - which will be useful when I move onto bigger things!

Read that the service interval for them is 2500 but haven't seen a price. Have read though that it is fairly easy to change the oil on them yourself.

Looking forward to getting a bike and out on the road now!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Servicing is a doddle on most 125s.

CBR125 is a reasonable shout, but they're physically small bikes.

I'd be looking at a YBR over a CBF. The CBF was Indian made with random quality control and there are some shockingly rotted examples out there.

Before you do anything though, do try and blag a quick go on a bigger bike. It could save you wasting a lot of time and money on a tiddler.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I followed a twat on a CBF yesterday wearing tight jeans and flip flops about 5miles on a 50mph limit road. I wouldn't in this lifetime buy one, as the nasty little wimpy chuffing sound it makes would suck out any shred of manliness.

How anyone chooses one of these shit heaps over a modern 15bhp twist and go that's probably better in every way I'll never understand?
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Sable
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't the new CBR's normal sized bikes? 2013 models onwards. The oldies used to be diddy.

Herald bikes were the same as Sinnis bikes up to 2016, so parts are currently plentiful. Had a Sinnis Retrostar, same bike as the Classic really.

Caveat, Sinnis have now stepped up to Euro 4 and changed their entire range. I imagine with that, parts for the non-Euro 4 Herald Classic and classic styled 2016 and before Sinnis bikes are going to get quite sparse quite quickly. Who's gonna import parts for low demand bikes that aren't being made anymore? If Herald have Euro 4 style bikes out, a new one may not have that issue. Though the price will be silly and you'd be a fruit to buy one. I wouldn't buy a second hand pre-Euro 4 Herald now.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP died decades ago.
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Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125
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The last post was made 6 years, 227 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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