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Vehicle Finance - Credit Bubble?

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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I splashed £200 on an old 306 (mk1!). The first car I had was an mk2 so ++ nostalgia!
In all honesty tho, having done most things bar rebuilding engines, the newer cars are a right pain in the proverbial (and that's having Peugeot dealership software at home!). With all the conplexity of modern cars it's somewhat understandable that they are failing all the time so for now I'm regressing to easier, more reliable (or at least easier to diagnose/fix) vehicle. Although admittedly, mole grips, penetrating fluid, a decent blow touch and patients are a must as I'm quickly remembering with older, corroded nuts and bolts Rolling Eyes

On the plus side, Loads of spares going on the cheap, clutch kit £40, branded vented discs and pads < £30, rear brake shoes and spring kit for a fiver delivered. Was disappointed to find the shoes on there have oodles of life left in them :-/ I plan to replace what as and when I find bits cheap and want to get this car driving like new('ish) Laughing
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 08:15 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
dodsi wrote:
if its cheaper over a set period of time to Lease a vehicle over owning it then selling it on why would

... so many people paying their rent by renting you one?

Genuine question. If someone's making a living from selling you something, you're paying their wages out of your pocket.


And that's what makes the world go round... thing is, and this is the point I was making that not all people whom finance/lease are putting themselves in a financially precarious position for the sake of a shiny car. Having a quick look at google for lease deals myself and my wife could probably afford to lease an Audi R8 but then I would probably (read definitely) be the guy at a party sponging beer from people.

Also, modern cars are way too sophisticated and clever and as many people have already said a nightmare to work on. Let alone the expense of all the electronics - the car we lease has a bloody radar. I'm bolloxed if I am paying for repairs on the enevitable failure of it in the coming years. Another reason to use it whilst it's all under warranty and hand it back whilst the going should be good.

So long as you look after your leased car when it comes to hand back you should not be charged - there is an industry regulation as to what is 'fair' wear and tear.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
dodsi wrote:

Also, modern cars are way too sophisticated and clever and as many people have already said a nightmare to work on. Let alone the expense of all the electronics - the car we lease has a bloody radar. I'm bolloxed if I am paying for repairs on the enevitable failure of it in the coming years. Another reason to use it whilst it's all under warranty and hand it back whilst the going should be good.

So long as you look after your leased car when it comes to hand back you should not be charged - there is an industry regulation as to what is 'fair' wear and tear.


I like the idea, and I am thoroughly sick of riding bikes that don't /quite/ work constantly.

Would love to own a vehicle in good condition, that doesn't require constant fettling, or that feeling of unease when you don't have a toolkit with you.

Liked the video Itchy Thumbs Up It is a lot like G and I's interest in breaking cars/bikes - trying to get them to go around again.

The sad thing is - Nowadays, with Ebay flooded with cheap parts and modern cars being such pigs to work on... the breaker industry is drying up slowly and getting replaced with big business. Economies of scale and all that.

Can't imagine coping well with the stress of owning a full fledged banger... if it goes pop at the road side, what can you really do at the roadside (compared to the amount of work you can do on a bike at the roadside - especially naked low capacity singles/twins).
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh yeh, and I was horrified to hear what a normal level of car finance per month is among my (fairly young) colleagues.

Most are spanking 200-400 / month on finance on fairly meh cars.
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sun Wukong wrote:
Oh yeh, and I was horrified to hear what a normal level of car finance per month is among my (fairly young) colleagues.

Most are spanking 200-400 / month on finance on fairly meh cars.


Which is why it's worth shopping around for a good deal. For the price of our car we could spend more on something like a small mid-range hatchback. There is no way I would spunk what we are spunking on something lesser than the superb we have which isn't exactly going to set the world on fire anyways, it is efficient, comfortable and generally a nice place to be - especially on long journeys with it's driving assist gedgetary.

I drive a 17 year old BMW daily as the boss commutes much further than I do - if we both had short commutes I would not commit that much money to having a shiny car - we would just have. 1 or 2 sub £1500 cars.

On the main subject Are these cars unaffordable? I don't know - there are examples of people bankrupting themselves to have a shiny car but examples where it is a considered and affordable decision. Will the bubble burst? Who knows? Perhaps they might have tighter lending criteria in the coming years.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sun Wukong wrote:
I was horrified to hear what a normal level of car finance per month is among my (fairly young) colleagues.

Most are spanking 200-400 / month on finance on fairly meh cars.

While complaining that they can't afford to get a foot on the housing ladder?
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
While complaining that they can't afford to get a foot on the housing ladder?


I overheard a girl in the gym a few months ago saying how she was in an Audi dealers;
"So I told him that my budget was 3 or 4"
"Grand?"
"No, hundred per month".

She was in a gym that's 20 quid a month, not the DW or Nuffield that's 50, meaning to me that she isn't rolling init. Just willing to spend a fair chunk of her wage to drive around in a white A1 to feel she's made it.
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G
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Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

I've currently got a yellow EML and a red SRS light on my 2010 Zafira, and am not relishing the conversation with the local techno-spanner monkey come MOT time.

EML not sure about.
SRS, some one I know put a vehicle through MOT multiple times with only an 'advisory' that the SRS light test didn't illuminate when you turned the keys on - it seems some cheeky monkey had put a bit of paper between the light and the dash it's self, meaning that they couldn't see that the light was permanently on.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
The EML is being reported as one of the temperature sensors, I can clear it temporarily with an OBD device.

The SRS, no such help from Friend Computer. I half suspect that the dealer disturbed the passenger airbag when they did the 2nd antifire fix via the glove compartment, but it could be any of the airbags or the seatbelt pre-tensioners or allah-knows what else.

Well, this has galvanised me into ordering an Open OPCOM dongle, so I guess we'll see what we shall see.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 13:24 - 25 Jul 2017; edited 1 time in total
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Kris
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
The EML is being reported as one of the temperature sensors, I can clear it temporarily with an OBD device.


Coolant temp. I have the same issue.

Vauxhall will 'sell' you a fixed segment of loom that they can charge you to install by splicing into the existing loom in the engine bay.

i.e. they fucked up and the sensor always shows an error.

Rolling Eyes
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arry
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

The SRS, no such help from Friend Computer. I reckon that'll be "engineered around".


Check the pre-tensioner sensor connectors under the front seats. Unclip them and reseat them; can be a bit of a bugger so they can.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Check the pre-tensioner sensor connectors under the front seats. Unclip them and reseat them; can be a bit of a bugger so they can.

I already did that (thanks internets), but the light didn't clear. Apparently they don't on Open/Vauxhalls even if you sort the fault, so I've ordered an OPCOM dongle.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
DrSnoosnoo wrote:
Just willing to spend a fair chunk of her wage to drive around in a white A1 to feel she's made it.

Not surprised at all. The amount of new cars on my street (in what's a poor area) is ridiculous. It depends on how you want to look at, yes they wouldn't be driving around in a shiny new car without finance, but then if they weren't you assume they'd be driving around in an older vehicle and that would massively push up used prices (if finance wasn't so readily available).
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
The amount of new cars on my street (in what's a poor area) is ridiculous.

Check them for blue badges / motability stickers.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 30 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
For those playing along at home:

Kris wrote:
Coolant temp. I have the same issue.

Vauxhall will 'sell' you a fixed segment of loom that they can charge you to install by splicing into the existing loom in the engine bay.

Yup, the error code does suggest that it's this fecker:

https://workshop-manuals.com/vauxhall/astra-h/j__engine_and_engine_aggregates/fuel_injection_systems/simtec_75/technical_service_bulletins/warning_lights_telltale/engine_z16xer_coolant_temperatur_sensor_svs_on__p2182%2817%29_set/

Cutting the harness, nice bodge. Thumbs Up

The SRS was "passenger curtain airbag squib low voltage", not present at last startup, now cleared off with my £16 OP-COM clone.

Great success, by which I mean, I can live with the dodgy sensor.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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owl10
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 30 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes there probably is a bubble of sorts

Up until now, all those on pcp deals have been okay come trade in time, as used values have been high enough to take you into the next. Every other cat now seems to be a less than 3 year old German tdi - cos premium car and low tax innit.

All those diesel cars won't be worth so much this time when it's time to trade in.

Whether or not the bubble is big enough to cause a problem I don't know. BoE seem to be getting concerned though.




However, for me I do 20K miles a year and having a car available is in my employment contract, for which I have a car allowance) I get a really miserable mileage rate of 11p per mile and have to make a claim back at the end of the year for mileage allowance relief. Knowing that, 1 year ago I bought a used 13 reg vw passat cc tdi, as it had warranty (availability) and can just about run on 11p per mile, and is bug enough and comfortable enough to go away with family etc. my end of year rebate pretty much covers services and tyres etc.


It was £14K, paid half cash and half bank loan at 3.6%.

Repayment is 223 per month, but now need to add a monthly cost for extended warranty.

300 per month could probably lease a similar type of brand new car (okay no residual value).

So, I'm tempted when time comes to change to look at lease deals. Don't know if this would make me part often problem.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 30 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't pay 14k for a car and you'll be alright Rolling Eyes
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owl10
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 30 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Don't pay 14k for a car and you'll be alright Rolling Eyes


Meh.

I've always had older cars, usually older performance cars

Most recently a c32 amg.

Now it's in my contact that If a vehicle isn't available and I need to travel I'd have to hire something, and repair mine.


Given that my remuneration specifically includes a car allowance, the question is how best to meet needs. For me that was comfortable over distance, modern, low mileage, warranty and cheap pence per mile to run.

14K doesn't buy a lot
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 30 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
owl10 wrote:
Given that my remuneration specifically includes a car allowance, the question is how best to meet needs. For me that was comfortable over distance, modern, low mileage, warranty and cheap pence per mile to run.

14K doesn't buy a lot

You can have all that (minus the warranty) for a fraction of that 14k. Unless you're Diane Abbott you don't talk about saving money at -£14,000. https://youtu.be/s4ZwqPa9mnU?t=40s
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 31 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
owl10 wrote:


14K doesn't buy a lot


Yes it does. £14k in the U.K. Buys a hell of a lot of car.

My Dad just bought a mint, high spec E350 CGI Coupe Merc with 38,000 on the clock.


Ok, do the proper maths on running costs

Now, according to Fuely a E350 CGI does about 25mpg.

a 2.0tdi passat does more like 50mpg (probably more)

The passat covers an annual fuel spend of £2090 based on a £1.149PPL and 20K miles

The Mercedes would be £4180 or so.

That's a difference of £174 per month in fuel costs. Shocked

Let alone, the Road tax (i know its not actually called 'road tax') Tyre sizes and increased consumables and servicing costs.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 31 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
dodsi wrote:
Ok, do the proper maths on running costs

No shit Rolling Eyes
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arry
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 31 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:

You'd be surprised, the 3.5 V6 Petrol CGI Coupe (lighter) does 40mpg average, the Passat won't be averaging 50mpg. I have the same 140ps 2.0 tdi engine in my Transporter and even when it was a bare shell with the rear 6 seats out, it only did an average of mid 30's, with late 40's on a run. I doubt the passat would be much lighter or more fuel efficient than my DSG7 Transporter.


Side point really but Passats can average that. Drag Coefficient of your van is probably ~0.40 compared to the Passat ~0.32 or so. That does make a big difference.
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 31 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
£14k doesn't buy much?
Like seriously?
The wife picked up a year old, < 10k miles Citroen C4 with plenty of bells and whistles for £8,000?
And that was from a Marshalls stealership?

Can't even find a bleeding scratch let alone anything mechanically wrong with it.

If you're going to just walk in and flick through a brochure then you may as well bring you own KY jelly Thumbs Up.
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